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Old 08-12-2014, 02:40 PM   #101
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Default Re: Does this movie really deserve the hate it gets?

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Venom at least got a great birth scene and a better fight.
Honestly, for me both categories were handled better with Dane's Green Goblin,even the fight one which was incredibly short but I got more invested with it.

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the funny thing is when you notice most of the scenes cut out like when harry and peter kept talking it felt like they were developing as friends. infact, someone on this forum stated in a commentary that there was a flashback scene of harry and peter as kids and they have such a nice moment being kids and even playing some chess while norman watches them.
Yeah but we have to bring the final product to the table and not what possibly was.

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Old 08-12-2014, 02:43 PM   #102
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Honestly, for me both categories were handled better with Dane's Green Goblin,even the fight one which was incredibly short but I got more invested with it.



Yeah but we have to bring the final product to the table and not what possibly was.
the flashback scene was in the final movie but they cutted it out-_-

speaking of which there was also news back then that martin sheen was suppose to reprise his role as uncle ben even revealing having a flashback scene but thanks to sony and avi's stupid wisdom they cutted it out and leave peter to care more about his stupid stupid parents than his aunt and uncle-_-

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Old 08-12-2014, 02:44 PM   #103
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Default Re: Does this movie really deserve the hate it gets?

For the TASM2 enthusiasts, how much of the Peter & Gwen dynamic influence your admiration for this film? If they used different actors or the chemistry wasn't there, would you have still ranked it as high?

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Old 08-12-2014, 02:48 PM   #104
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i'd be totally down if they used different actors since marc webb seems to do chemistry very well as you can see in 500 days of summer.

also speaking of which, which marvel role would you want matthew grey gubler in?

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Old 08-12-2014, 02:48 PM   #105
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As you wish
Totally read that in Boba Fett's voice lol

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Old 08-12-2014, 02:51 PM   #106
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For the TASM2 enthusiasts, how much of the Peter & Gwen dynamic influence your admiration for this film? If they used different actors or the chemistry wasn't there, would you have still ranked it as high?
You used to have a Transformers G1avvy ,don't you?

For the movie or franchise? They both play a big role after all they are the leads, like I said before the only thing for me that could have been handled better is Green Goblin and Peter&Harry relationship.

Electro is my favorite villain from every films,I really liked the vibrant and a little less grounded sequel, so to your question,maybe.

Every single lead did a wonderful job on my view and since the movie is character drive then it's hard to reply to your question, they would probably went for another direction since the romance wouldn't be the franchise highest strength.

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Old 08-12-2014, 03:05 PM   #107
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Default Re: Does this movie really deserve the hate it gets?

That's what I keep hearing about how strong the romance is, something even my wife mentioned. But, I'm wondering if in particular this film, since the relationship is it's highest strength does it cause for some posters to "overlook" some of the weaker parts.

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Old 08-12-2014, 03:10 PM   #108
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The romance is one if not the one most important thing on the franchise so you have to give it's weight when judging it,but honestly this is the Spider-man movie that I enjoyed most,it's hard for me to decided between ASM 1&2 though.

Spider-Man was finally nailed by Andrew Garfield so the romance isn't the only thing good about it,at least not for me,Electro and Dane's short Harry Osborn was spot on,it has the greatest action scene that it's the TS one,those are my thoughts about it.

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Old 08-12-2014, 03:20 PM   #109
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I thought Electro was the weakest main villain of the franchise. While he was a bigger threat, I felt he was underdeveloped and his villain turn felt quick and forced.

Dehaan was great as Osborn thought. Can't blame him for shoddy writing.

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Old 08-12-2014, 03:29 PM   #110
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I don't see why it was quick and forced.

It's not like we had two scenes with Max before he went crazy.

The TS scene smoothly reflects his transformation to Electro, it isn't because Spider-Man forgot his name like people make it to be,who was supposed to be his best friend and the only person that cared for him destroyed the moment when he actually felt important and at the same time tried to kill Max by making him vulnerable to the shot,on Max's vision of course.

So yeah...it was time to release his frustration and hate like some people do here.

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Old 08-12-2014, 03:33 PM   #111
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I find it a pretty thin reason to take your frustrations out on Spider-Man, a guy you perceived was your hero. Another person takes a shot at you, so you decide to no longer listen to the guy you perceive as your hero? Sure, he's mad, but it a little baffling how much he wanted to hurt Spider-Man.


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Old 08-12-2014, 03:40 PM   #112
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Spider-Man was the only person he trusted, someone that cared for him but on his interpretation that person suddenly helped to get you killed and everything turns to be lies,he's alone again.

"You set me up"
"You lied to me"

Max was on his limit before he felt betrayed and that shot just ignited his rage which was contained for years.

That's how I see it.

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Old 08-12-2014, 03:47 PM   #113
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Default Re: Does this movie really deserve the hate it gets?

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Totally read that in Boba Fett's voice lol
I'll take that as a compliment

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I find it a pretty thin reason to take your frustrations out on Spider-Man, a guy you perceived was your hero. Another person takes a shot at you, so you decide to no longer listen to the guy you perceive as your hero? Sure, he's mad, but it a little baffling how much he wanted to hurt Spider-Man.
Exactly. It was absurd. And madness is not an excuse. Being crazy doesn't mean being stupid.

Electro is hands down one of the worst villains ever in a CBM. He was awful. What a waste of the great Jamie Foxx.

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Old 08-12-2014, 03:52 PM   #114
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Spider-Man was the only person he trusted, someone that cared for him but on his interpretation that person suddenly helped to get you killed and everything turns to be lies,he's alone again.

"You set me up"
"You lied to me"

Max was on his limit before he felt betrayed and that shot just ignited his rage which was contained for years.

That's how I see it.
But Spidey did nothing. Why would he think he led him into a trap? Why would he think Spider-Man is helping the police when he's aware that Spider-Man's also villified by them too for being a vigilante? We spend so much time that having Dillon talk up Spider-Man and how much he's his hero that it feels thin and jarring to have him turn so quickly on Spider-Man.

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Old 08-12-2014, 03:58 PM   #115
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But Spidey did nothing. Why would he think he led him into a trap? Why would he think Spider-Man is helping the police when he's aware that Spider-Man's also villified by them too for being a vigilante? We spend so much time that having Dillon talk up Spider-Man and how much he's his hero that it feels thin and jarring to have him turn so quickly on Spider-Man.
"Let's get away from these people and go somewhere else to talk,okay?"

I assumed that Max thought Spider-Man made him get vulnerable to the shot by getting him in contact with the water behind him.

So that's where the line "You set me up" came from.

Anyway, I'm heading out now but it was good talking with you

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Old 08-12-2014, 03:59 PM   #116
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Same here, and it's nice we can be civil about this.

However, it still doesn't make it any less thin for such a sudden turn based on such flimsy motivation. If he's such a fan, he should know that Spider-Man's not a killer, and would never have him killed.


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Old 08-12-2014, 04:14 PM   #117
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You're behaving like you want to start a flame war with your constant hyperbolic sarcasm, silly demands, and stupid baiting remarks. Who said the opening scene of the movie, or even every single scene in the movie is poor?

The likes of Batman and Robin, Green Lantern, Superman 4 etc have got some good or decent or passable scenes in them. But they're still bad movies. That doesn't just go for bad comic book movies, but bad movies in general. Likewise that good movies can sometimes have some bad scenes in them.

As if you didn't know all this though. No wonder your posts are being ignored.
Except they weren't being ignored, 3 people replied to it...

They all liked the movie.

And that's fine if you wanted to concede the opening scene was fine, why didn't you do that 24 hours ago when I asked?

I don't see how asking for reasoned, justified, discussion is asking for a flame war...

Do you not like being asked to justify what you say? Genuine question.

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Old 08-12-2014, 04:14 PM   #118
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Well the bugle have always been against him and he did think spidey was just doing this thing to make himself look good.

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Old 08-12-2014, 04:21 PM   #119
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Except they weren't being ignored, 3 people replied to it...

They all liked the movie.
Yeah three fans of the movie. I thought your question was aimed at the detractors yes?

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And that's fine if you wanted to concede the opening scene was fine, why didn't you do that 24 hours ago when I asked?
I didn't see it 24 hours ago. The last thing I saw you say was asking someone for a post that does a scene by scene critical analysis of the movie. I commented (I think to A Necessary Evil) that nobody here does that.

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I don't see how asking for reasoned, justified, discussion is asking for a flame war...
It's not. It's the manner in which you asked for it. Your posts are peppered with snide remarks, insults, and general condescension.

Not to mention what you were asking for, requesting proof of posts where people have done scene by scene critical analysis of the movie. Such posts have never existed here. Not for praise or criticism.

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Do you not like being asked to justify what you say? Genuine question.
Not at all. I love it.

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Old 08-12-2014, 04:23 PM   #120
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I'll take that as a compliment



Exactly. It was absurd. And madness is not an excuse. Being crazy doesn't mean being stupid.

Electro is hands down one of the worst villains ever in a CBM. He was awful. What a waste of the great Jamie Foxx.
Just from a purely psychological point of view, you're mostly incorrect.

There's plenty of mental ilnesses that inhibit people's ability to reason properly, to overreact, to misread situations. While his actions seemed stupid to a rational mind, to his warped mind, (Years of abuse and neglect I'm assuming) his actions, and the situations he that facilitated his reaction, seemed completely justified.

In fact, the misrepresentation of reality is one of the most erroneous parts of mental illness, and one of the most objectivly cruel parts. We percieve these actions as stupid, but they're not, they're misguided.

Perhaps my 10 years of walking through a psychiatric ward growing up makes me more sympathetic to the mentally ill, but I really did sympathise with Max Dillon, but I was annoyed with the comical tone they gave his mental illness as that was outright offensive.

You're right when you say it was absurd, as it was.

But picture that Spider-Man is the first person to give this guy basic human interaction in years, he pins his hope on this interaction, pining for the next one, like a drug addict, and when he finally gets it, and realises its not what it seems, it send him off...

It really is a totally believable situation, companionsip is one of the most important things to some mentally ill people, it really was a great theme to choose.

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Old 08-12-2014, 04:28 PM   #121
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Why would he paint Spider-Man in that light? Like I said, why would he easily believe that he was working the same people who, for the most part, despise him? Spider-Man already saved him once. Why would he think Spider-Man would want to go to extremes like setting him up to be shot in order to hurt him?

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Old 08-12-2014, 04:29 PM   #122
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Just from a purely psychological point of view, you're mostly incorrect.

There's plenty of mental ilnesses that inhibit people's ability to reason properly, to overreact, to misread situations. While his actions seemed stupid to a rational mind, to his warped mind, (Years of abuse and neglect I'm assuming) his actions, and the situations he that facilitated his reaction, seemed completely justified.

In fact, the misrepresentation of reality is one of the most erroneous parts of mental illness, and one of the most objectivly cruel parts. We percieve these actions as stupid, but they're not, they're misguided.

Perhaps my 10 years of walking through a psychiatric ward growing up makes me more sympathetic to the mentally ill, but I really did sympathise with Max Dillon, but I was annoyed with the comical tone they gave his mental illness as that was outright offensive.

You're right when you say it was absurd, as it was.

But picture that Spider-Man is the first person to give this guy basic human interaction in years, he pins his hope on this interaction, pining for the next one, like a drug addict, and when he finally gets it, and realises its not what it seems, it send him off...

It really is a totally believable situation, companionsip is one of the most important things to some mentally ill people, it really was a great theme to choose.
I think that's utter hogwash.

Dillon and Spider-Man met for like 15 seconds on the street. Dillon was so unbelievably stupid that he even said that out of all the people in the city Spider-Man saved him, while he was watching TV footage of Spider-Man saving people from a burning building. Never mind the fact that Spider-Man saves people ALL THE TIME, too.

That's not insanity. That's being a brain dead moron.

What this farcical movie did was take the basic premise you're talking about there, and took it to ridiculous comically bad heights. You don't need to have worked in a psych ward to know that.

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Why would he paint Spider-Man in that light? Like I said, why would he easily believe that he was working the same people who, for the most part, despise him? Spider-Man already saved him once. Why would he think Spider-Man would want to go to extremes like setting him up to be shot in order to hurt him?
It's because he was a total idiot. Not crazy. Just an idiot. It had to be one of the flimsiest motives ever for a villain.

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Old 08-12-2014, 04:34 PM   #123
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Yeah three fans of the movie. I thought your question was aimed at the detractors yes?

I didn't see it 24 hours ago. The last thing I saw you say was asking someone for a post that does a scene by scene critical analysis of the movie. I commented (I think to A Necessary Evil) that nobody here does that.

It's not. It's the manner in which you asked for it. Your posts are peppered with snide remarks, insults, and general condescension.

Not to mention what you were asking for, requesting proof of posts where people have done scene by scene critical analysis of the movie. Such posts have never existed here. Not for praise or criticism.

Not at all. I love it.
Another genuine request, can you please stop chopping up my posts to respond? It seemed really unneccessary here for example... From here it becomes neccessary, but please, in future, if you can, avoid that.

Perry9 gave the pros and cons of the opening scene, do you not respect that? He literally mentioned the flaws too, is his opinion not valid? I don't really understand how his opinion is somehow less than people who dislike the movie...

Anyway, are you saying that my posts are only offensive to those who don't like the film? Now, I think that's something that you have to ask about, surely if my posts were snide and insulting everyone would ignore them? Something to think about, eh?

Example of snide remarks, insults and general condescension...

I asked for that once, and then retracted it in my next post... Which I guess you didn't see either? What I have consistently asked for is a detailed justification of a negative opinion of the film. Nobody has provided that as of yet Joker, other than Perry's balanced analysis.

Well, you can show that... Review the Kafka scene maybe, that's easy to hate.

I actually don't try to come across as condecending, but when people seem so hesitant to justify their claims, my responses get more pushy as a matter of neccesity. I feel, considering that there's moderators posting in this thread, that I have not crossed the line at all... Except when I asked for a scene by scene analysis, which contradicted by previous post regardless, and was clearly retracted.

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Old 08-12-2014, 04:38 PM   #124
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I think that's utter hogwash.

Dillon and Spider-Man met for like 15 seconds on the street. Dillon was so unbelievably stupid that he even said that out of all the people in the city Spider-Man saved him, while he was watching TV footage of Spider-Man saving people from a burning building. Never mind the fact that Spider-Man saves people ALL THE TIME, too.

That's not insanity. That's being a brain dead moron.

What this farcical movie did was take the basic premise you're talking about there, and took it to ridiculous comically bad heights. You don't need to have worked in a psych ward to know that.



It's because he was a total idiot. Not crazy. Just an idiot.
You're showing a really basic the knowledge of th concept of mental illness if you think Max Dillon wasn't mentally ill, which is fine, but really, he's insane mate.

Just from a film point of view, we had literal cuts to inside his mind, that indicates somethings going on in there.

Never worked in one, had family in there....

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Old 08-12-2014, 04:40 PM   #125
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So, i'll continue the analysis of the film tomorrow, since it's 12:39 a.m. here. Don't start without me.

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