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Old 05-23-2016, 02:05 PM   #76
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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I still don't understand why Steve never told Tony about his parents' murder if he didn't know it was Bucky.

Come of think of it, if Steve knew, then so did Natasha. And yet.
They might have deduced it, given what Zola showed them.

And IMO, it would be ultimately Steve's responsibility to tell Tony if he suspected. If Natasha did it, it would be gossip. Steve needed to clear that air with Tony himself, if he suspected, because Bucky is his BFF that he wants to protect.

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Tony's emotional state was also being chipped away at throughout the film. Pepper leaving him, the run in with the woman at MIT, trying to hold the team together but it's falling apart, nearly losing Rhodey - all tee-ing him up for that biggest gut-punch with the video.

Same with Cap, losing Peggy and the team falling apart makes him fight that much harder for Bucky.
Seriously. Both of them kinda needed a break.

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Old 05-23-2016, 07:22 PM   #77
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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Tony just finding out the guy killed his mom....mind control or not.....was not a silly reason
The problem was there has just been no background that ever makes any real connection about his parents at all in the 12 previous MCU movies, or at least the 6 he has been in. There were dribblings in IM1 and IM2 but nothing about Tony having any deep care for his parents, or not getting over their death, or frankly any real references to their death having any impact on him. So the video just comes out of nowhere and we just can't buy it as a reason to end up in a virtual death match with Cap. But being the MCU, death is never a possibility.

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Old 05-23-2016, 07:40 PM   #78
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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The problem was there has just been no background that ever makes any real connection about his parents at all in the 12 previous MCU movies, or at least the 6 he has been in. There were dribblings in IM1 and IM2 but nothing about Tony having any deep care for his parents, or not getting over their death, or frankly any real references to their death having any impact on him. So the video just comes out of nowhere and we just can't buy it as a reason to end up in a virtual death match with Cap. But being the MCU, death is never a possibility.
Are you kidding me? You can't buy that someone would see red after watching a video of their parents being brutally murdered without some kind of context or proof??

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Old 05-23-2016, 08:28 PM   #79
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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Are you kidding me? You can't buy that someone would see red after watching a video of their parents being brutally murdered without some kind of context or proof??
Absolutely. I don't know if Tony cared about his parents or not. How come this was the first time we heard they were murdered? Now he's meant to flip over about it? That's why they shoe horned in that bit at MIT (obviously a reshoot addition) because the set up was so weak.

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Old 05-23-2016, 09:06 PM   #80
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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Absolutely. I don't know if Tony cared about his parents or not. How come this was the first time we heard they were murdered? Now he's meant to flip over about it? That's why they shoe horned in that bit at MIT (obviously a reshoot addition) because the set up was so weak.
We were told in The Winter Soldier they were murdered when Zola summarized HYDRA's activities over the last several decades to Steve and Natasha.

Plus, that's what the mysterious prologue scene is for. The audience doesn't necessarily know who is inside the car but then in the climax it's revealed.

Lastly, even if you aren't or weren't close to your parents at all, you're going to be horrified and likely react the way Tony did. Unless you're a psychopath.

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Old 05-23-2016, 09:32 PM   #81
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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Are you kidding me? You can't buy that someone would see red after watching a video of their parents being brutally murdered without some kind of context or proof??
Well there is a little bit of disconnect when nothing was really ever spoken about his mother prior to CW. It lacks the effectiveness or resonating narrative "punch" compared to if he had carried emotions about it throughout his previous outings. IMO Tony always came off very disconnected in terms of his relationship with his parents.

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Old 05-23-2016, 09:40 PM   #82
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Well there is a little bit of disconnect when nothing was really ever spoken about his mother prior to CW. It lacks the effectiveness compared to if he had carried emotions about it throughout his previous outings. IMO Tony always came off very disconnected in terms of his relationship with his parents.
I just don't think it needs to be explored. The gravity of watching his parents being brutally murdered is enough. I mean, am I the only one who thinks this way? Am I the only one who thought this needed absolutely no further explanation and the sequence flowed naturally?

Plus, it kind of fits with Tony's character. He's emotional but not in the way that he's going to talk all the time about his feelings for his parents. He kind of drops hints throughout the MCU, like the few times he's talked about his dad's lack of affection. You can clearly see it bothers him. We also saw a hint of his relationship with his mother in the MIT scene. For me, the climax came across as a guy who all along loved his parents and is horrified at seeing the truth about how they died.

Besides, it's not like his reaction was all that dramatic anyway. You saw the horror but it immediately turned to rage.


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Old 05-24-2016, 10:31 AM   #83
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

Do you really need to see every nook and cranny of Tony's relationship with his parents to believe he'd be upset at watching their brutal murder?

C'mon folks, now you're just nitpicking.

Iron Man 2 showed his relationship with his Dad and the fact that he named a relief foundation after his mother should be enough to know how much he cared.

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Old 05-24-2016, 04:25 PM   #84
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

hard to really care about Tony's relationship with his parents. I hardly remember his mother and the only reason i remember his dad is because they keep changing who the actor is thats playing him.

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Old 05-24-2016, 04:44 PM   #85
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

They do?

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Old 05-24-2016, 04:47 PM   #86
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

They have only ever had two actors play him, one young and one old.

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Old 05-24-2016, 08:45 PM   #87
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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Do you really need to see every nook and cranny of Tony's relationship with his parents to believe he'd be upset at watching their brutal murder?

C'mon folks, now you're just nitpicking.

Iron Man 2 showed his relationship with his Dad and the fact that he named a relief foundation after his mother should be enough to know how much he cared.
Seriously get lost already. You're combative and you have nothing to contribute other than mocking people for what you consider nitpicking.

BTW he named the foundation that for THIS film - convenient to the story telling and not something adequately depicted in prior films. NO I'm not talking about having to show every nook and cranny.

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Old 05-24-2016, 08:50 PM   #88
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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hard to really care about Tony's relationship with his parents. I hardly remember his mother and the only reason i remember his dad is because they keep changing who the actor is thats playing him.
IMO his relationship with his parents (predominantly his father) has basically been lip service to this point. For me, I'm a "show me don't tell me" kind of viewer. Unfortunately most CBM's fall prey to it because they're trying to jam it with an abundance of characters and advertisements for future movies.

Wanna see a relationship that mattered - where the characters adequately demonstrated their affection? Look no further than Deadpool. That's been one of the lone few CBM's where there were actual "earned" feels.

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Old 05-24-2016, 09:32 PM   #89
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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Seriously get lost already. You're combative and you have nothing to contribute other than mocking people for what you consider nitpicking.

BTW he named the foundation that for THIS film - convenient to the story telling and not something adequately depicted in prior films. NO I'm not talking about having to show every nook and cranny.
The person telling me to "get lost" calls me combative.

I'm not mocking anyone, I'm pointing out a nitpick that's inaccurate.

BTW, the Foundation has been named that for DECADES in actual Marvel comic books.

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Old 05-24-2016, 10:18 PM   #90
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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The person telling me to "get lost" calls me combative.

I'm not mocking anyone, I'm pointing out a nitpick that's inaccurate.

BTW, the Foundation has been named that for DECADES in actual Marvel comic books.
If it's comic book canon it doesn't matter. It's what is depicted in THESE films that does.

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Old 05-25-2016, 07:41 AM   #91
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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If it's comic book canon it doesn't matter. It's what is depicted in THESE films that does.
...what?

The movies are heavily inspired by the comics. These characters motivations and personalities are DIRECTLY rooted in the comics.

SO it means that your claim that the Foundation was only renamed for the movies proves that your incorrect. This is a decades long designation that was cooked up just for the film.


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Old 05-25-2016, 10:27 PM   #92
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

I didn't like the Steve/Sharon kiss.

Tony/Vision basically locking Scarlet Witch up. I like the moral ambiguity of the movie, but I wish they would have done more with the fact that Vision paralyzed War Machine. Does Tony want to lock Vision up too?

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Old 05-27-2016, 05:40 AM   #93
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

I was thinking about two of my complaints with the movie, the melodramatic scene with the mother guilting Tony in the hallway and Peter's lack of setup, and I think you could have killed two birds with one stone, as I think the idea of the scene with the mother was fine, but it went on too long and hit the audience over the head with the point it was making.

Put the MIT scene in a New York university. Tony walks off stage after his speech and outside to a gaggle of press. Cut to a kid shuffling into another outfit in a corner (framed so we can vaguely see his red Spider-Man suit sticking out of a backpack), going "c'mon, c'mon, man..." and rushing to meet with the press, camera in hand. "Mr. Stark! Mr. Stark! Peter Parker with the Daily Bugle!" Tony looks at him for a moment, as if sizing him up. "What do you want kid, an autograph?" Secretly, he's getting a look at the kid he's been tracking via satellite for the last few months (which would get a bit more exposition when he sees him in New York) but appears to be dismissing him entirely as to keep a lower profile.

He passes Peter, and the mother approaches him, hand in purse. "I have something to give you, Stark," she says coldly, and like in the movie Tony freaks out and grabs her hand instinctively, as he does in the movie, only for her to slap the photo of her son at him, giving a condensed version of her speech in the movie (probably something like "my son's name was Charlie Spencer, and you Avengers got him killed in Sokovia. You think throwing some money at college students will ease your guilt?") And then leaves. Tony is surrounded still by noisy, bossy press, still asking questions, yet all he can do is watch the mother leave the area.

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Old 05-27-2016, 08:45 AM   #94
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

Spiderman told Cap in the airport battle that Tony advised him to web Cap's legs because that's Cap's weak spot. Then in the run up to that Cap vs IM iconic stand-off scene in the final fight, Tony blasts Cap's shield instead of his legs. Like geez Tony why didn't you take your own advise.

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Old 05-27-2016, 08:55 AM   #95
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

My only gripe is I would have loved to see a full Avengers movie with the Cap, Widow, Scarlet Witch, Falcon, War Machine, Vision line up.


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Old 05-27-2016, 10:56 AM   #96
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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Spiderman told Cap in the airport battle that Tony advised him to web Cap's legs because that's Cap's weak spot. Then in the run up to that Cap vs IM iconic stand-off scene in the final fight, Tony blasts Cap's shield instead of his legs. Like geez Tony why didn't you take your own advise.
He could have cut off Cap's limbs doing that. He's not trying to kill or maim Cap during the fight; the fact that he's holding back is why he loses.

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Old 05-27-2016, 11:02 AM   #97
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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He could have cut off Cap's limbs doing that. He's not trying to kill or maim Cap during the fight; the fact that he's holding back is why he loses.
I feel like this is lost on everyone.

Only 2 people were "out to kill" in the movie: Black Panther against Bucky and Tony against Bucky. Everybody else was, at most, trying to incapacitate their opponent...not kill.

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Old 05-27-2016, 01:26 PM   #98
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

Bucky just can't catch a break.

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Old 05-28-2016, 05:01 AM   #99
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

There's one very weird thing... (and possible a huge plot hole)

SPOILERS (of course)

Zemo wants to know what happened December 17, 1991 from everybody he investigates. So he obviously does not know what happened. But what if the information he gets is completely useless for his purposes? Because he does not know what happened, yet his whole plan swirles around that december night...

His whole plot is so totally convenient. He finds exactly what he needs, although he does not know what he will find, there's some camera footage of the incident, althought it's somewhere on the road in deep woods, but it happens just in a front of some camera, all important members show up together, on the same place, at the same time, etc...


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Old 05-28-2016, 08:28 AM   #100
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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There's one very weird thing... (and possible a huge plot hole)

SPOILERS (of course)

Zemo wants to know what happened December 17, 1991 from everybody he investigates. So he obviously does not know what happened. But what if the information he gets is completely useless for his purposes? Because he does not know what happened, yet his whole plan swirles around that december night...

His whole plot is so totally convenient. He finds exactly what he needs, although he does not know what he will find, there's some camera footage of the incident, althought it's somewhere on the road in deep woods, but it happens just in a front of some camera, all important members show up together, on the same place, at the same time, etc...
Zemo's plan also depended on Sam telling Tony where exactly Cap and WS went.

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