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Old 07-24-2017, 10:28 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

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Lol season 3 was about the death of Iris West but it wasn't about Iris herself. She barely got anything to do and even in the end it was about Barry. Cisco and Caitlin got more to do then Iris did.
That's the point, her relationship with Barry was the main arc, and it was everywhere in each episode. Not her journalism or anything else that makes the character the same from the comics.

The dynamic between team flash as whole was severed due to Barry being in a relationship with Iris and stalking her in Flashpoint. This is clear as day.

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Old 07-25-2017, 09:15 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

I wish Julian Albert would move over to Supergirl.

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Old 07-26-2017, 12:22 AM   #28
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

Wasn't it Tom's decision to sign off?

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Old 07-26-2017, 12:46 AM   #29
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

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Wasn't it Tom's decision to sign off?
if caitlin is back with team than with her,cisco,and harry he wasn't needed for new season.seems like wa will mostly be the romance for s4 after barry gets out of speedforce ignoring my personal feelings on wa.though maybe they might give cisco a romance for s4.

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Old 07-26-2017, 03:44 AM   #30
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

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if caitlin is back with team than with her,cisco,and harry he wasn't needed for new season.seems like wa will mostly be the romance for s4 after barry gets out of speedforce ignoring my personal feelings on wa.though maybe they might give cisco a romance for s4.
hmmm, he's suppsed to be a CsI and most of the time they don't let barry do enough of it as job and put it on cisco which is weird.

There was a place for tom Middleton. it's just they put the job they are supposed to be doing of CSI on the wrong characters at times cisco's supposed to be the inventor catiline the doctor. harry has his own thing with earth one and should only be there occasionally. but truth be told he shouldn't there that often. if iris is gonna be leading people now it mean's she's on the comm's now too. but hope they play up her investigative reporter side to get her into places cops and csi's can't get access to.
but there is place for him since throw Barry's day job on every one else.

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I wish Julian Albert would move over to Supergirl.
super girls writers don't really seem to care too much about investigative work past kara sadly or don't know how go about it past a point. we wouldn't see much of him there. he was better off here on flash since they weirdly throw it past Barry onto another character who's job it isn't , cause they want him doing something silly like what he did in flash point like kidnapping Caitlin or kidnapping his alternate self and impersonating him .


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Old 07-26-2017, 12:47 PM   #31
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

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That's the point, her relationship with Barry was the main arc, and it was everywhere in each episode. Not her journalism or anything else that makes the character the same from the comics.

The dynamic between team flash as whole was severed due to Barry being in a relationship with Iris and stalking her in Flashpoint. This is clear as day.
The relationship is not the problem. Focusing ONLY on the relationship is the problem. If you want to show a three dimensional character, you need to see them independent of their significant other.

I'd even go as far as to say Iris' death was more of a focus than anything to do with their relationship or her character. Barry proposing and all that nonsense was all to try and avoid her death.

It will be nice to get some scenes where Iris isn't a damsel in distress. Which is essentially what 90% of the last season amounted to. Have her working, or on the coms while people are fighting crime, or even just hanging out with characters other than Barry.

At least give me the allusion that this character has a life.

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Old 07-26-2017, 01:12 PM   #32
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

They won't have her working. The fact that she is automatically bumped up to "leader" when she was just a love interest and damsel in distress last season proves the writers don't care about improving her character.

The relationship IS the problem because Iris and Barry never grew up together in the same house in the comics.

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Old 07-26-2017, 01:12 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

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The relationship is not the problem. Focusing ONLY on the relationship is the problem. If you want to show a three dimensional character, you need to see them independent of their significant other.

I'd even go as far as to say Iris' death was more of a focus than anything to do with their relationship or her character. Barry proposing and all that nonsense was all to try and avoid her death.
. hop
It will be nice to get some scenes where Iris isn't a damsel in distress. Which is essentially what 90% of the last season amounted to. Have her working, or on the coms while people are fighting crime, or even just hanging out with characters other than Barry.

At least give me the allusion that this character has a life.
It's what they should be doing with her. yes. hopefully they do that. it's what they focus on they need to work on though.

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Old 07-26-2017, 01:26 PM   #34
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

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They won't have her working. The fact that she is automatically bumped up to "leader" when she was just a love interest and damsel in distress last season proves the writers don't care about improving her character.

The relationship IS the problem because Iris and Barry never grew up together in the same house in the comics.
Technically it what they choose to focus on and how they go about it implementation/ method wise that the problem.

They want to be known for getting the love relationship in the show. but are going about it the wrong way and nixing every other important thing & detail like her having life and stand on her own as a character for it as syncos said. they are sacrificing other thing's to have the love relation ship cause it's not the relationship that's the problem it's the how they go about it execution wise.

they just don't know how to make if fit and seem natural cause they are force jamming it, in a weird way often.


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Old 07-26-2017, 06:06 PM   #35
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

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That's the point, her relationship with Barry was the main arc, and it was everywhere in each episode. Not her journalism or anything else that makes the character the same from the comics.

The dynamic between team flash as whole was severed due to Barry being in a relationship with Iris and stalking her in Flashpoint. This is clear as day.
So how was S3 the Iris show? Barry was still front and center, he was the one dealing with Iris' death and his relationship with her, not the other way around.

If Barry and Wally can automatically be bumped to superheroes just because they gain speed, then Iris becoming a leader isn't that far fetched. The team is down and it's taking 2 people to make up for Barrys absence, who is going to be manning the computers while Cisco/Wally are out on the field?


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Old 07-27-2017, 09:33 AM   #36
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

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They won't have her working. The fact that she is automatically bumped up to "leader" when she was just a love interest and damsel in distress last season proves the writers don't care about improving her character.

The relationship IS the problem because Iris and Barry never grew up together in the same house in the comics.
You're really stuck on this manufactured problem that Barry staying with Iris and Joe somehow makes they're relationship incestuous. Barry was 11 when his mother died. Iris had lived next door his whole life. There was plenty of time for him to already be infatuated with the girl next door.

Living under the same roof doesn't make it incest.

Joe is like a father to him, he's not his father. Barry was never adopted. He never lost contact with his own family. Joe just helped him through the worst time of his life, so there's a strong bond.

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Old 07-27-2017, 10:34 AM   #37
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

They need to give Iris a secondary plot of her own. As a reporter she's trying to uncover some mystery and have it connect with the big bad.

Give her something and allow her character to grow.

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Old 07-27-2017, 12:41 PM   #38
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

I had just posted proof on Season 2 DVD of the show where it says "his adoptive family" romance is a small part of the comics. They don't understand how to write Iris, she has no agency, every scene she has to be in is next to Barry. And what I'm saying is nit picking? These are facts, we're watching the same show. Iris, like Felicity, is a useless character with no purpose. She has nothing attached to her name as of now. Don't know how clear this can be.

Joe calls Barry his son many times, he was adopted, they were raised together, it's incest.

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Old 07-27-2017, 12:52 PM   #39
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

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I had just posted proof on Season 2 DVD of the show where it says "his adoptive family" romance is a small part of the comics. They don't understand how to write Iris, she has no agency, every scene she has to be in is next to Barry. And what I'm saying is nit picking? These are facts, we're watching the same show. Iris, like Felicity, is a useless character with no purpose. She has nothing attached to her name as of now. Don't know how clear this can be.

Joe calls Barry his son many times, he was adopted, they were raised together, it's incest.
some can't stand that iris has critics.i hope fim version of iris is written better.

felicity had a purpose on arrow before olicity started at end of s2.iris just hangs around starlabs giving orders and lecturing.it started in s2 and only got worse.instead of doing her job she is hanging around starlabs.

their relationship is way too creepy.and writers keep rewriting s1 to justify
wa.time and time again both joe and wally call barry son or brother.you would think if they want show to relvove abour iris and wa they would downplay or ignore this but no.

writers have basicly said if you don't like iris and wa you can just quit watching.

i have given up snowbarry at this point.to watch now i want focus on original team flash and get friendship scenes with barry with both caitlin and cisco.and get iris out of starlab and have her treated as just the li and stop her trying to overshadow everything else.

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Old 07-27-2017, 01:18 PM   #40
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

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I had just posted proof on Season 2 DVD of the show where it says "his adoptive family" romance is a small part of the comics. They don't understand how to write Iris, she has no agency, every scene she has to be in is next to Barry. And what I'm saying is nit picking? These are facts, we're watching the same show. Iris, like Felicity, is a useless character with no purpose. She has nothing attached to her name as of now. Don't know how clear this can be.

Joe calls Barry his son many times, he was adopted, they were raised together, it's incest.
Joe calling Barry son is a term of endearment not a literal term. Barry was not adopted. They've said in the series that Joe was Barry's legal guardian, he was his FOSTER father, not adopted.

They've never once used the term adopted in the series, but they have said that Joe was his legal guardian. So I'll take the canon of the series, over whatever advertising firm wrote the DVD box copy, thanks.

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Old 07-27-2017, 04:25 PM   #41
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

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I had just posted proof on Season 2 DVD of the show where it says "his adoptive family" romance is a small part of the comics. They don't understand how to write Iris, she has no agency, every scene she has to be in is next to Barry. And what I'm saying is nit picking? These are facts, we're watching the same show. Iris, like Felicity, is a useless character with no purpose. She has nothing attached to her name as of now. Don't know how clear this can be.

Joe calls Barry his son many times, he was adopted, they were raised together, it's incest.

What do you mean Felicity is useless? Felicity is a major character on Arrow, sometimes overshadowing Green Arrow. It was Felicity that saved the world from nuclear annihilation season four on Arrow.
And in this season of Arrow Felicity provided major support. She and Cisco saved the Legends in the cross-over. If Iris were to provide 1/10 the support Felicity does then Iris might serve some purpose.

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Old 07-27-2017, 05:54 PM   #42
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

Yeah, whether you like how her subplots are handled or not, Felicity actually is a contributing member of Team Arrow. She has meaningful skills that she applies to the benefit of the team, and with less overlap than most of the members ( the only person who could do what she does so far is Curtis, and he doesn't seem to be as good a hacker ).

Whereas Iris. . . even when she acts as a reporter, she doesn't seem to be any great shakes at it. Not as bad as Kara Danvers, but still. And it almost never comes off as important or useful to the stuff Team Flash does. Sure, she can provide info-gathering on "mundane" activities, but the team has several police-affiliated characters who can do anything she's done, better. Its not like she's Lois Lane, where part of her premise is "I am the best investigator in the city".

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Old 07-27-2017, 06:03 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

I suppose that would be her arc. Much like how Laurel had to go through the ringer before she suited up.

Actually...there's quite the parallel there with Laurel and Iris.

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Old 07-27-2017, 07:16 PM   #44
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

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I had just posted proof on Season 2 DVD of the show where it says "his adoptive family" romance is a small part of the comics. They don't understand how to write Iris, she has no agency, every scene she has to be in is next to Barry. And what I'm saying is nit picking? These are facts, we're watching the same show. Iris, like Felicity, is a useless character with no purpose. She has nothing attached to her name as of now. Don't know how clear this can be.

Joe calls Barry his son many times, he was adopted, they were raised together, it's incest.
So does it become incest once someone gets married and starts calling their in-laws Mom or dad? They are essentially adopted into the family lol.

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Old 07-27-2017, 09:02 PM   #45
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

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Joe calling Barry son is a term of endearment not a literal term. Barry was not adopted. They've said in the series that Joe was Barry's legal guardian, he was his FOSTER father, not adopted.

They've never once used the term adopted in the series, but they have said that Joe was his legal guardian. So I'll take the canon of the series, over whatever advertising firm wrote the DVD box copy, thanks.
Hmmm looking back after it all it's vague on the adoption part. joe did bring paper's and told Barry that he has the paper to for him to adopt Barry and become his parent and this was at the time Barry as a kid was visiting his dad a lot and when Joe and his dad kept telling to stop .


And Joe asked if it was ether ok with him and Barry as kid didn't answer at the kitchen table of theirs. it's really hard to say cause they left it vague. I agree with you on the other parts. but writers do love controversy a little too much


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Old 07-27-2017, 10:45 PM   #46
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

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So does it become incest once someone gets married and starts calling their in-laws Mom or dad? They are essentially adopted into the family lol.
It's been incest since both Barry and Iris call Joe dad. Joe did adopt Barry at 11. You are telling me water is dry when it's wet.

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Old 07-27-2017, 11:36 PM   #47
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

When your friend adopts your teen kid because you go to jail and they look at him as a father figure that isn't incest. But still doesn't answer what happens when you get married and call your inlaws mom/dad and they become your family.

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Old 07-28-2017, 12:20 AM   #48
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

They grew up and were both raised together as step-siblings at age 11.

You call it gross and incestuous, wouldn't it explain why Joe was against Barry discussing married, children and sex when Barry brought it up? How can you miss this? What's worse is Iris was OK with all of it. Say what you will about Olicity but they didn't have Brady Bunch tones like this.

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Old 07-28-2017, 12:37 AM   #49
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

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They grew up and were both raised together as step-siblings at age 11.

You call it gross and incestuous, wouldn't it explain why Joe was against Barry discussing married, children and sex when Barry brought it up? How can you miss this? What's worse is Iris was OK with all of it. Say what you will about Olicity but they didn't have Brady Bunch tones like this.
Ok, look both sides to a degree are right and not wrong. they were both at a certain age to know they aren't blood-related and more so barry remembers his parents. and even some people skip this when a person is a teenager that is their most crucial time period where they need more guidance they were kid's some more than other cause the teen year is the craziest for most people.


that said Barry dated other girls as teen he had a thing for iris still later on. now if the was happening when joe was raising barry as teen yep this would be even more of problem and we've seen on some level it's urk's him and he told the truth on that m, cause to him no matter how other's like to push it he does see barry as the boy he raised .


but he also know's those two love each other . And want's them to be happy. the better chose where the writers were in involved would have been for henry and his wife to have child hood or collage pals it's not like people don't have those , that were Barry's god parents which is freaking strange that he doesn't have that of all things since it's common bad habit where dc is involved that most heroes don't seem to have any other relatives like an aunt or uncle or older cousins. that would allow him to still live in that town.

it's not like they wouldn't have joe around to be at star labs with them. it is what it is . they also left it vague, but from what has shown in tv history and what known of real life ,people that are adopted in some case's are allowed to keep their original last name unless they want it changed during that time of adoption and there are other factor's. If they want to keep it (that family name) they will.

As to this thing with the incest. we have been through this and it's a bit tiring. We know what it was there for. it's cause of how certain writer's like controversy. but this has been done and done.


It's going no where.


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Old 07-28-2017, 02:46 PM   #50
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Default Re: The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

I know they just started filming for the new season so they weren't able to include a lot of new footage in the comic con trailer, but I really don't like how it looks like the show won't be that much different once Barry returns. I was hoping that Caitlin wouldn't return to Team Flash any time soon. So far it doesn't look like there will be any major shakeup in the show's format.

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