The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Star Wars > Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-05-2013, 01:11 PM   #601
roach
I am the night
 
roach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 46,714
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by gohei_ View Post
Well isn't that pretty much what they were in the original trilogy?
It did not make much sense though after the pt since the galaxy was crawling with jedi back then and then in the OT people disregard the jedi and sith as humbug only 20 something years later.

"For over a thousand generations, the Jedi knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the old Republic"

Maybe I am reading too much into this phrase but I always assumed there were numerous before the Empire.
In Revenge of the Sith...Palpatine said the Jedi attacked him. He used this to fuel the perception that they were terrorists and charlatans. Everything related to the Jedi was destroyed and public opinion turned against them. This is why 20 years later few people know about the force. An imperial officer can mock Vader to his face.

__________________
Journeying to the Undying Lands in the West
So Long and thanks for all the fish
roach is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 01:12 PM   #602
Solidus
Knights of Ren
 
Solidus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: First Order
Posts: 21,806
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by gohei_ View Post
Well isn't that pretty much what they were in the original trilogy?
It did not make much sense though after the pt since the galaxy was crawling with jedi back then and then in the OT people disregard the jedi and sith as humbug only 20 something years later.
No. The Jedi were extinct. The order was no more period. Just Obi-Wan and Yoda were left. The last of an era. If you make it where there is a full Jedi Order you are doing nothing but copying the PT. The PT already had a fledgling Jedi Order, and the OT had it demolished and no more. To have a little bit of an Order (not a lot) makes sense. They are in the early stages of rebuilding it. And from a philosophical standpoint that is what the Jedi should have learned from the PT. Being too close to the seats of power are what caused their downfall. Their masters are The Force. Not governments.

__________________
"If Skywalker returns...the new Jedi will rise."-Supreme Leader Snoke

"If you don’t care about the characters, nothing matters. No space ship, no explosion, no anything is important if you don’t feel something for the people involved."J.J. Abrams (2/5/13)

Last edited by Solidus; 10-05-2013 at 01:16 PM.
Solidus is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 01:21 PM   #603
roach
I am the night
 
roach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 46,714
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidus View Post
No. The Jedi was extinct. The order was no more period. Just Obi-Wan and Yoda were left. The last of an era. If you make it where there is a full Jedi Order you are doing nothing but copying the PT. The PT already had a fledgling Jedi Order, and the OT had is demolished and no more. To have a little bit of an Order, but not a lot makes sense. They are in the early stages of rebuilding it. And from a philosophical standpoint that is what the Jedi should have learned from the PT. Being too close to the seats of power are what caused their downfall. Their masters are The Force. Not governments.
While I agree that they should not be a large organization in the new trilogy...I think a fledgling government would like to reclaim old symbols to inspire the people and give them hope. Luke Skywalker was a hero of the rebellion and a Jedi. I see politicians using him as a rallying point...and may even try to get him to have an part in the government...people love a war hero...and I see this may be where some of the tension between Luke and the new Government may come from. They want him to be the symbol of the new government and he may just want to restart the order or just want to do good and not be so political.
I know people were tired of politics in the PT but let's be honest the OT was about politics...just not the boring type.

__________________
Journeying to the Undying Lands in the West
So Long and thanks for all the fish
roach is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 01:27 PM   #604
Solidus
Knights of Ren
 
Solidus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: First Order
Posts: 21,806
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by roach View Post
While I agree that they should not be a large organization in the new trilogy...I think a fledgling government would like to reclaim old symbols to inspire the people and give them hope. Luke Skywalker was a hero of the rebellion and a Jedi. I see politicians using him as a rallying point...and may even try to get him to have an part in the government...people love a war hero...and I see this may be where some of the tension between Luke and the new Government may come from. They want him to be the symbol of the new government and he may just want to restart the order or just want to do good and not be so political.
I know people were tired of politics in the PT but let's be honest the OT was about politics...just not the boring type.
Look at my last post to Bim. I agree. It is about politics int he OT, just executed way better.

On to your other points. We have to look at it this way though. The government may very well want the Jedi back. This is true. But does Luke? He may feel his powers/responsibility lies beyond the hope in government. And giving hope in a another way. Luke may feel he belongs elsewhere. Not many will understand what he is. Or what he's trying to do. He is the only Jedi really. So he may slink into the shadows for a while, while he rebuilds the Order. Again being so fragile, it would be easy out in the open for the Sith to attack and destroy the Jedi once again. Especially young inexperienced Jedi which most of them will be.

Luke may follow what the Force tell him to do.

__________________
"If Skywalker returns...the new Jedi will rise."-Supreme Leader Snoke

"If you don’t care about the characters, nothing matters. No space ship, no explosion, no anything is important if you don’t feel something for the people involved."J.J. Abrams (2/5/13)
Solidus is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 01:29 PM   #605
roach
I am the night
 
roach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 46,714
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidus View Post
Look at my last post to Bim. I agree. It is about politics int he OT, just executed way better.

On to your other points. We have to look at it this way though. The government may very well want the Jedi back. This is true. But does Luke? He may feel his powers/responsibility lies beyond the hope in government. And giving hope in a another way. Luke may feel he belongs elsewhere. Not many will understand what he is. Or what he's trying to do. He is the only Jedi really. So he may slink into the shadows for a while, while he rebuilds the Order. Again being so fragile, it would be easy out in the open for the Sith to attack and destroy the Jedi once again. Especially young inexperienced Jedi which most of them will be.

Luke may follow what the Force tell him to do.
Thats exactly what I said

__________________
Journeying to the Undying Lands in the West
So Long and thanks for all the fish
roach is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 01:37 PM   #606
Solidus
Knights of Ren
 
Solidus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: First Order
Posts: 21,806
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by roach View Post
Thats exactly what I said
I know. I'm expanding on it.

__________________
"If Skywalker returns...the new Jedi will rise."-Supreme Leader Snoke

"If you don’t care about the characters, nothing matters. No space ship, no explosion, no anything is important if you don’t feel something for the people involved."J.J. Abrams (2/5/13)
Solidus is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 01:38 PM   #607
roach
I am the night
 
roach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 46,714
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidus View Post
I know. I'm expanding on it.
did we just become best friends??

__________________
Journeying to the Undying Lands in the West
So Long and thanks for all the fish
roach is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 01:42 PM   #608
Solidus
Knights of Ren
 
Solidus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: First Order
Posts: 21,806
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by roach View Post
did we just become best friends??
It may be the begining of a friendship. Will one of us fall to the Dark Side and betray the other though?

__________________
"If Skywalker returns...the new Jedi will rise."-Supreme Leader Snoke

"If you don’t care about the characters, nothing matters. No space ship, no explosion, no anything is important if you don’t feel something for the people involved."J.J. Abrams (2/5/13)
Solidus is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 01:58 PM   #609
roach
I am the night
 
roach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 46,714
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidus View Post
It may be the begining of a friendship. Will one of us fall to the Dark Side and betray the other though?
You were my brother!!!!

__________________
Journeying to the Undying Lands in the West
So Long and thanks for all the fish
roach is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 02:00 PM   #610
Solidus
Knights of Ren
 
Solidus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: First Order
Posts: 21,806
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by roach View Post
You were my brother!!!!
Now I am the master!

__________________
"If Skywalker returns...the new Jedi will rise."-Supreme Leader Snoke

"If you don’t care about the characters, nothing matters. No space ship, no explosion, no anything is important if you don’t feel something for the people involved."J.J. Abrams (2/5/13)
Solidus is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 02:06 PM   #611
roach
I am the night
 
roach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 46,714
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidus View Post
Now I am the master!
only a master of evil

__________________
Journeying to the Undying Lands in the West
So Long and thanks for all the fish
roach is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 02:23 PM   #612
Solidus
Knights of Ren
 
Solidus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: First Order
Posts: 21,806
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Is there any better master?

__________________
"If Skywalker returns...the new Jedi will rise."-Supreme Leader Snoke

"If you don’t care about the characters, nothing matters. No space ship, no explosion, no anything is important if you don’t feel something for the people involved."J.J. Abrams (2/5/13)
Solidus is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 02:26 PM   #613
Nathan
...
 
Nathan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 49,322
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

What I'm imagining right now.


__________________
I am the HYPE!
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Nathan is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 02:30 PM   #614
Solidus
Knights of Ren
 
Solidus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: First Order
Posts: 21,806
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
What I'm imagining right now.

LOL See Roach the Dark Side is stronger!

__________________
"If Skywalker returns...the new Jedi will rise."-Supreme Leader Snoke

"If you don’t care about the characters, nothing matters. No space ship, no explosion, no anything is important if you don’t feel something for the people involved."J.J. Abrams (2/5/13)
Solidus is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 02:32 PM   #615
roach
I am the night
 
roach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 46,714
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

if you strike me down.....i'll be dead

__________________
Journeying to the Undying Lands in the West
So Long and thanks for all the fish
roach is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 07:48 PM   #616
Octoberist
point blank
 
Octoberist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: California
Posts: 46,473
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

With the new movies, it's tricky because you don't want to disregard and negate what Luke and his band has done for the galaxy. Nor do you want a retrend.

I guess the best way looking at it is, if the Original Trilogy was World War 2, then the new Trilogy should be like the Cold War. Sure the Cold War wasn't a full out war (though, you can argue that the Korean and Vietnam War were results of it right?) but it had its own verses the two World Wars. It's spy vs spy espionage than a full on battle. A new conflict, but different set in a new era.

I'm not saying that the new trilogy should be 'spy' ridden but my point is that there ways to evolve the story, and a modern conflict that is different enough from the past.

__________________
"Benicio Del Toro is up-and-coming...and this (movie) could be his breakthrough role."

-- Anonymous, 2016
Octoberist is online now  
Old 10-05-2013, 08:34 PM   #617
Bim
Side-Kick
 
Bim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,565
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidus View Post
Ya it would make for an interesting aspect. The Jedi being in the shadows to a point (not dark side style just staying hidden) would be really cool. Tales from the galaxy of people seeing Jedi, but being seen as somewhat of a myth.

I would say most found (even if they liked the PT) a lot of the political stuff somewhat boring. But to defend you, I agree we need to know some stuff about the politics because it can be interesting and is a part of SW. Just make it subtle and part of the story like they did with the OT. Where if flowed and was integrated with the sense of adventure. We don't need boring meetings of people on couches discussing politics. We need to know about the politics, but I think in vein of how the OT gave it. In small doses integrated in with everything.

So I agree with you we need the back story of some of the politics, but mainly the basics, and have it be subtle and not long stretches of political dialogue. SW always has had politics apart of it. But I just think it should blend with the adventure of the story.
I'm sorry, but why do i need to be defended? lol. People can disagree with me, i'm not that insecure and i'm not here to try and convince anyone of anything either, so dont worry . Besides, i'm a woman and extremely dangerous when hormonal, so i doubt anyone would dare mess with me or i'm coming after their geeky butts

I dunno, i think it's unavoidable to have a big chunk of politics in this new trilogy. My hope is that they dont shy a way from it. Whether people like the execution or not, that's a different story, and as usual agreements and disagreements will come from that lol. And i'm thinking if Leia is in this, we'll see her immersed in the politics. Do you guys think we'll see Leia embracing some kind of jedi training, or will she shy from it and stick to just politics?

I think the jedi's downfall was that they allowed the politics to put them in a vulnerable spot. Mace said it in AOTC: "We are keepers of the peace, not soldiers", and yet they allowed themselves to become soldiers during the clone wars. Of course, that's exactly what the sith in command wanted, but they shouldnt have put themselves in that position.

Let's see how Luke (hopefully!) learns from that. One can only hope Obi left him some recordings or something telling him what happened to the Order as a whole, that would be kinda cool.

I'm seeing a bromance brewing between Solidus and roach, awww lol

__________________
“There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.” Goethe

If Jack Bauer joined the Rebel Alliance, 24 hours later there would be no Empire :p
Bim is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 09:23 PM   #618
Solidus
Knights of Ren
 
Solidus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: First Order
Posts: 21,806
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bim View Post
I'm sorry, but why do i need to be defended? lol. People can disagree with me, i'm not that insecure and i'm not here to try and convince anyone of anything either, so dont worry . Besides, i'm a woman and extremely dangerous when hormonal, so i doubt anyone would dare mess with me or i'm coming after their geeky butts

I dunno, i think it's unavoidable to have a big chunk of politics in this new trilogy. My hope is that they dont shy a way from it. Whether people like the execution or not, that's a different story, and as usual agreements and disagreements will come from that lol. And i'm thinking if Leia is in this, we'll see her immersed in the politics. Do you guys think we'll see Leia embracing some kind of jedi training, or will she shy from it and stick to just politics?

I think the jedi's downfall was that they allowed the politics to put them in a vulnerable spot. Mace said it in AOTC: "We are keepers of the peace, not soldiers", and yet they allowed themselves to become soldiers during the clone wars. Of course, that's exactly what the sith in command wanted, but they shouldnt have put themselves in that position.

Let's see how Luke (hopefully!) learns from that. One can only hope Obi left him some recordings or something telling him what happened to the Order as a whole, that would be kinda cool.

I'm seeing a bromance brewing between Solidus and roach, awww lol
Maybe I should have also put next to (defend you) is that I agree with that lol. Because I think too politics need to be a part of SW but in more of the way the OT did it. Subtle and integrated.

But yes Roach is Obi-Wan and I'm Anakin. He will still love me no matter what I do. Instead of killing Jedi children I went to his backyard breaking his prequel DVD/Blu-ray's in half laughing hysterically. Even when he throws me into a lake of fire my last words will be "I hate the PREQUELS!!!"

But in the end after we all are dead, he will still want to chill with me ghost style on Endor.

Wait why am I the bad guy in this?

__________________
"If Skywalker returns...the new Jedi will rise."-Supreme Leader Snoke

"If you don’t care about the characters, nothing matters. No space ship, no explosion, no anything is important if you don’t feel something for the people involved."J.J. Abrams (2/5/13)
Solidus is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 09:31 PM   #619
Loki882
Side-Kick
 
Loki882's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 20,908
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidus View Post
I disagree. What caused them to fall was being so integrated into the politics of the Old Republic. Sitting so close to the seat of power is what caused their down fall, the evil was right in front of them. Them being away from the republic allows them to (especially in a fragile state) re-create themselves. That and do you really think something that took thousands of years to create would take 35 years to have a Jedi Order once again? No. Because you will need trainers to be one on one with their apprentices to ensure no falling to the Dark Side which is easy to do. Which is why a Padawan learner has a one on one teacher for 10-15 years. Luke is by himself, he will have to train very few to get such intimate teachings. And not only that to find the Force sensitive in a broken war torn just getting out of darkness New Republic.

Trust me having Jedi right in the seat of power again will not make them trust them. The thing is most don't even believe in them. It's too soon to have them be just like they were in the PT. They should be detached from government. There is only one thing that tells Jedi what to do. And it's not governments. To quote the last line of the Jedi creed:

"There is no death, there is the Force."

The Force is their true master. And to me being separate from everyone would allow them to not get involved in politics and corruption. They can be pretty much their own entity that goes around ensuring peace in the galaxy.
People tend to distrust what they don't understand. Having the Jedi be this mysterious group off on their own is going to make people distrust them and be suspicious, it just will. It happens all the time in real life. How many "cults" are feared largely because they are isolated and unknown, quite a few. Also, being more public and open is NOT THE SAME as being involved in politics.

Loki882 is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 09:42 PM   #620
Nathan
...
 
Nathan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 49,322
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidus View Post
Wait why am I the bad guy in this?
Do you have a thing for being disciplined? That might be why.

__________________
I am the HYPE!
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Nathan is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 09:48 PM   #621
Solidus
Knights of Ren
 
Solidus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: First Order
Posts: 21,806
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki882 View Post
People tend to distrust what they don't understand. Having the Jedi be this mysterious group off on their own is going to make people distrust them and be suspicious, it just will. It happens all the time in real life. How many "cults" are feared largely because they are isolated and unknown, quite a few. Also, being more public and open is NOT THE SAME as being involved in politics.
It's hard to tell. Again being out in the open is dangerous as well. People may remember in the history books and have been brainwashed for years by the Empire that Jedi were to blame for everything starting the war, and trying to destroy everything they stood for. So again being only one man, to sit out in the open can be very dangerous. Cults if they become big enough, become religions a power in themselves. But staying low key for many major religions is how many started, even the big three in today's world. They were seen as cults because they were small, so being more open about it usually got people killed (See Rome).

So being in the shadows would be better until they could stand on their own.

__________________
"If Skywalker returns...the new Jedi will rise."-Supreme Leader Snoke

"If you don’t care about the characters, nothing matters. No space ship, no explosion, no anything is important if you don’t feel something for the people involved."J.J. Abrams (2/5/13)
Solidus is offline  
Old 10-05-2013, 09:50 PM   #622
Solidus
Knights of Ren
 
Solidus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: First Order
Posts: 21,806
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
Do you have a thing for being disciplined? That might be why.
LOL Not to my knowledge.

__________________
"If Skywalker returns...the new Jedi will rise."-Supreme Leader Snoke

"If you don’t care about the characters, nothing matters. No space ship, no explosion, no anything is important if you don’t feel something for the people involved."J.J. Abrams (2/5/13)
Solidus is offline  
Old 10-06-2013, 02:20 AM   #623
Octoberist
point blank
 
Octoberist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: California
Posts: 46,473
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki882 View Post
People tend to distrust what they don't understand. Having the Jedi be this mysterious group off on their own is going to make people distrust them and be suspicious, it just will. It happens all the time in real life. How many "cults" are feared largely because they are isolated and unknown, quite a few. Also, being more public and open is NOT THE SAME as being involved in politics.
The key thing to me to NOT make the Jedi the status quo. It does take away the 'working class' vibe that worked so well from the original trilogy.

I do like the idea that the common folk are fearful of having the Jedi as diplomats or political figures, so they're almost taboo.

I have a theory though: Luke's son (if this is the case) is a guy who turned his back on The Force; while the daughter of the Solos is willing to learn the ways of the Force, but her parents are iffy on it.

__________________
"Benicio Del Toro is up-and-coming...and this (movie) could be his breakthrough role."

-- Anonymous, 2016
Octoberist is online now  
Old 10-06-2013, 09:00 AM   #624
roach
I am the night
 
roach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 46,714
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidus View Post
Maybe I should have also put next to (defend you) is that I agree with that lol. Because I think too politics need to be a part of SW but in more of the way the OT did it. Subtle and integrated.

But yes Roach is Obi-Wan and I'm Anakin. He will still love me no matter what I do. Instead of killing Jedi children I went to his backyard breaking his prequel DVD/Blu-ray's in half laughing hysterically. Even when he throws me into a lake of fire my last words will be "I hate the PREQUELS!!!"

But in the end after we all are dead, he will still want to chill with me ghost style on Endor.

Wait why am I the bad guy in this?
I'm the bad guy. I am the one who knocks......down the old republic

__________________
Journeying to the Undying Lands in the West
So Long and thanks for all the fish
roach is offline  
Old 10-06-2013, 09:00 AM   #625
Great Mind(s)
Broken
 
Great Mind(s)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gamma Quadrant
Posts: 4,838
Default Re: General Star Wars Episode VII News/Speculation Thread - Part 5

I hope there's a lot more non-Jedi characters. We were missing those in the PT. I want a female Han Solo type character...

Great Mind(s) is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:25 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of Mandatory Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2018 All Rights Reserved.