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Old 08-18-2017, 05:14 PM   #26
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Default Re: Shorten future seasons?

Yes please. Less filler and possibly less dragging. I also liked how I got to finish The Defenders in 1 day! The other five seasons felt like a choir to finish.

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Old 08-18-2017, 05:23 PM   #27
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Default Re: Shorten future seasons?

Absolutely not. Shortening the season to 8 episodes was the most contrproductive decision they made. It basically made us focus on the main plot, which, was not well written. The side plots in the other shows helped to deepen the world

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Old 08-18-2017, 08:26 PM   #28
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Default Re: Shorten future seasons?

I wish it was 10 episodes. 8 kinda felt rushed.

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Old 08-18-2017, 10:45 PM   #29
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Default Re: Shorten future seasons?

Lol, this is so ironic. One of the main complaints levied at these Marvel Netflix shows was that 13 episodes was too much and now 8 episodes wasn't enough. lol

Perhaps 10 is the magic number? lol

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Old 08-18-2017, 11:34 PM   #30
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Default Re: Shorten future seasons?

Punisher's gonna come around and 6 will be the magic number.
Defenders definitely could have told its story in 6.

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Old 08-19-2017, 12:35 AM   #31
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Default Re: Shorten future seasons?

I think 10 is the magic number.

I felt the same way after Stranger Things, which was also 8 episodes. It felt short and truncated. There was more they could have done when it came to the Hand IMO; their story suffered due to the lack of episodes. Just to get into their stories more, make them feel more menacing, whatever. They could have showed a lot more of their effect on NYC as a whole, made the whole ending feel more epic and crucial to the overall motivation for the heroes. There was a missed opportunity.

13 has always felt a bit too long just because there's always a lot of filler episodes that drag. 10 episodes works for GoT, Westworld, Handsmaid's Tale, Rick & Marty, and I believe the new X-Files. It would work well for the Marvel Netflix series.

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Old 08-19-2017, 12:40 AM   #32
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Default Re: Shorten future seasons?

Defenders could've been 6
Or hell just make it a straight to Netflix movie.

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Old 08-19-2017, 04:58 AM   #33
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Default Re: Shorten future seasons?

To me, 8 episodes is perfect amount. Left me wanting for more and it is something I could go back again and again and not worry how many dragging episodes should I finish before I get to the finale.

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Old 08-19-2017, 06:17 AM   #34
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Default Re: Shorten future seasons?

If that show proved anything than that 8 episodes do not work as it was not nearly enough to create an egaging world. I always thought that was a stupid idea. 10-13 episodes is fine, no need to shorten that at the cost of good storytelling

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Old 08-19-2017, 08:27 AM   #35
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If that show proved anything than that 8 episodes do not work as it was not nearly enough to create an egaging world. I always thought that was a stupid idea. 10-13 episodes is fine, no need to shorten that at the cost of good storytelling
I haven't read your review so I'm not sure but how did they any of the bad storytelling have to do with the lack of episodes.

If anything they wasted too much of the episodes by focusing on the side characters and having the Defenders not meet up until near the end of episode 3. They should've met up by the end of episode 1

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Old 08-19-2017, 08:30 AM   #36
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Default Re: Shorten future seasons?

I just finished up the second episode and I'm enjoying the slow burn. They're clearly taking their time getting all the pieces in place.

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Old 08-19-2017, 08:53 AM   #37
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Default Re: Shorten future seasons?

Go back to 13

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Old 08-19-2017, 08:55 AM   #38
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Default Re: Shorten future seasons?

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Originally Posted by Blackman View Post
. They should've met up by the end of episode 1
why? the show has to assume that not every viewer has seen all of the previous shows and is instantly familiar with the characters, so taking the time to reintroduce them and their universes was absolutely necessary. by episode 2 the characters already teamed up in pairs and the team got together in episode 3. that's a reasonable length for a show like that that also juggled side characters and villains.

but the few episodes that were left were clearly not enough to flesh out the villains, didn't gave the supporting cast much to do and basically cut out, what made the other shows so great: the side plots. instead we were treated with a very simple plot structure and a main plot that didn't make a lot of sense once you start thinking about it. there's were side plots would have helped (taking the focus from the main story a couple of scenes each episodes so that it doesn't get too obvious too quick how nonsensical it is)

some of the best scenes in Defenders were when the supporting charactes of the solo shows mixed up and got to talk to each other, but since there was simply no time for that, those scenes unfortunatley were short and underwritten. and again, made it very obvious how by the numbers those scenes were from a screenwriting point of view ("okay, so we have one scene were Trish talks to Karen in that episode and we put a scene with Coleen and Misty there and then we have Foggy talk to... and so on") If they had spread it out a little or had given them more to do those fanservice scenes would've had a better, more natural flow.

The same goes for the villains and their motivations. The fingers were... just there. We learned about there existence, we saw them, but what do we know about them other than what was needed to tell a very spefic plot? They had almost no character, except what was given them in earlier shows for those two that we have met before. Therefore the whole threat of the Fingers fell extremely flat. When there's no way to care about them, why should you? (The fact that they also posed no physical threat and that their plan made not much sense didn't help either, but again, with a little more time and little less rush to the great finale, those are things that could've been worked around)

Almost every flaw in the series is a direct result of an episode count that was clearly too low for the story they were trying to tell at a quality we were used to before (except Luke Cage)

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Old 08-19-2017, 09:23 AM   #39
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Default Re: Shorten future seasons?

The regular shows should be 8-10 episodes.

The Defenders should have been 10. Or 13 if they decided to add even more to it.

I was annoyed several episodes was 45minutes. what a ripoff

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Old 08-19-2017, 09:48 AM   #40
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why? the show has to assume that not every viewer has seen all of the previous shows and is instantly familiar with the characters, so taking the time to reintroduce them and their universes was absolutely necessary. by episode 2 the characters already teamed up in pairs and the team got together in episode 3. that's a reasonable length for a show like that that also juggled side characters and villains.
I never understood this. Listen, The Defenders is the continuation of a story. Why do people expect stuff to be catered to them if they're coming in on pt 2, 3, 4 of a story? It's like when I read complaints about the Harry Potter series after part 4 you needed to watch/read the previous parts to understand what was happening. Yeah no s*** youre in part 5 of a serialized story
And then even then there's so much stuff (Karen/Foggy and Matt, JJ and Kilgrave, Cage and Claire/Misty) that was glossed over so quickly that if you hadn't seen the previous shows you might still be confused

We came to see The Defenders. Give us the Defenders. They meet up almost half way through the season. You wouldn't wait for The X-Men, JL, or Avengers to meet up almost half way through their movies why is this different?


Or even if we're breaking the season down into tradition 3 acts. They shouldve met up in the 2nd episode

And even then they could've caught people up within an episode or even 2


Quote:
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but the few episodes that were left were clearly not enough to flesh out the villains, didn't gave the supporting cast much to do and basically cut out, what made the other shows so great: the side plots. instead we were treated with a very simple plot structure and a main plot that didn't make a lot of sense once you start thinking about it. there's were side plots would have helped (taking the focus from the main story a couple of scenes each episodes so that it doesn't get too obvious too quick how nonsensical it is)

some of the best scenes in Defenders were when the supporting charactes of the solo shows mixed up and got to talk to each other, but since there was simply no time for that, those scenes unfortunatley were short and underwritten. and again, made it very obvious how by the numbers those scenes were from a screenwriting point of view ("okay, so we have one scene were Trish talks to Karen in that episode and we put a scene with Coleen and Misty there and then we have Foggy talk to... and so on") If they had spread it out a little or had given them more to do those fanservice scenes would've had a better, more natural flow.
I disagree here they gave supporting cast enough to do. In fact too much. I didn't care about Colleen's whole thing. Or all the scenes they had with the supporting cast interacting it took from screentime they could've used on villains or more importantly the Defenders

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The same goes for the villains and their motivations. The fingers were... just there. We learned about there existence, we saw them, but what do we know about them other than what was needed to tell a very spefic plot? They had almost no character, except what was given them in earlier shows for those two that we have met before. Therefore the whole threat of the Fingers fell extremely flat. When there's no way to care about them, why should you? (The fact that they also posed no physical threat and that their plan made not much sense didn't help either, but again, with a little more time and little less rush to the great finale, those are things that could've been worked around)


Almost every flaw in the series is a direct result of an episode count that was clearly too low for the story they were trying to tell at a quality we were used to before (except Luke Cage)
I agree about the villains but I don't think that's because of the episode count. I think it's because they wasted time on the supporting characters and waiting for The Defenders to team up. The episode count was fine imo, the way they used it wasn't


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Old 08-19-2017, 10:38 AM   #41
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I never understood this. Listen, The Defenders is the continuation of a story. Why do people expect stuff to be catered to them if they're coming in on pt 2, 3, 4 of a story? It's like when I read complaints about the Harry Potter series after part 4 you needed to watch/read the previous parts to understand what was happening. Yeah no s*** youre in part 5 of a serialized story
And then even then there's so much stuff (Karen/Foggy and Matt, JJ and Kilgrave, Cage and Claire/Misty) that was glossed over so quickly that if you hadn't seen the previous shows you might still be confused

We came to see The Defenders. Give us the Defenders. They meet up almost half way through the season. You wouldn't wait for The X-Men, JL, or Avengers to meet up almost half way through their movies why is this different?


Or even if we're breaking the season down into tradition 3 acts. They shouldve met up in the 2nd episode

And even then they could've caught people up within an episode or even 2




I disagree here they gave supporting cast enough to do. In fact too much. I didn't care about Colleen's whole thing. Or all the scenes they had with the supporting cast interacting it took from screentime they could've used on villains or more importantly the Defenders


I agree about the villains but I don't think that's because of the episode count. I think it's because they wasted time on the supporting characters and waiting for The Defenders to team up. The episode count was fine imo, the way they used it wasn't
I can't say I agree with any of this

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Old 08-19-2017, 11:27 AM   #42
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some of the best scenes in Defenders were when the supporting characters of the solo shows mixed up and got to talk to each other, but since there was simply no time for that, those scenes unfortunately were short and underwritten. and again, made it very obvious how by the numbers those scenes were from a screenwriting point of view ("okay, so we have one scene were Trish talks to Karen in that episode and we put a scene with Coleen and Misty there and then we have Foggy talk to... and so on") If they had spread it out a little or had given them more to do those fanservice scenes would've had a better, more natural flow.
eh...
You could divy up additional scenes for those guys, my preference would be more focus on the villains, IF the show didn't spend so much time at another hideout and did some more interesting things at the precinct.

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Old 08-19-2017, 11:46 AM   #43
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I never understood this. Listen, The Defenders is the continuation of a story. Why do people expect stuff to be catered to them if they're coming in on pt 2, 3, 4 of a story? It's like when I read complaints about the Harry Potter series after part 4 you needed to watch/read the previous parts to understand what was happening. Yeah no s*** youre in part 5 of a serialized story
And then even then there's so much stuff (Karen/Foggy and Matt, JJ and Kilgrave, Cage and Claire/Misty) that was glossed over so quickly that if you hadn't seen the previous shows you might still be confused

We came to see The Defenders. Give us the Defenders. They meet up almost half way through the season. You wouldn't wait for The X-Men, JL, or Avengers to meet up almost half way through their movies why is this different?

I completely agree. When you are doing any type of series where there has been a ton of story, world, and character building, you can't really be expected to walk into the middle of the series and have a working understanding about all that has gone before, especially if the story line is a continuation of previous storylines.

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Old 08-19-2017, 12:14 PM   #44
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10 will be better but I actually liked how I was able to finish an entire season in one day. I could never do that with the 13 eps format.

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Old 08-19-2017, 01:33 PM   #45
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eh...
You could divy up additional scenes for those guys, my preference would be more focus on the villains, IF the show didn't spend so much time at another hideout and did some more interesting things at the precinct.
agreed

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I completely agree. When you are doing any type of series where there has been a ton of story, world, and character building, you can't really be expected to walk into the middle of the series and have a working understanding about all that has gone before, especially if the story line is a continuation of previous storylines.
I know right?

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I can't say I agree with any of this
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Old 08-19-2017, 01:37 PM   #46
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Lol, this is so ironic. One of the main complaints levied at these Marvel Netflix shows was that 13 episodes was too much and now 8 episodes wasn't enough. lol

Perhaps 10 is the magic number? lol
Eh, I don't see the irony. Some people think 13 episodes were too much for the individual stories, but that has nothing to do with the team up . Actually I don't think 13 is too much, it's just so far they haven't figured out how to keep the story engaging for 13.

I can kind of see why people think 8 episodes aren't enough for the team up series. I don't agree with that personally. 8 was enough, it's just the story they told in those 8 episodes wasn't all that interesting.

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Old 08-19-2017, 01:48 PM   #47
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Yeah i think it's all in the pacing and script. True Detective and Night Of told phenomenal stories in 8 episodes, Mr Robot was able to in 10, Breaking Bad in 13 for some seasons...of course none of those are superhero team ups, but I still think 8 or 10 or 13 could be great if you have the right story and pacing. Especially story.


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Old 08-19-2017, 01:59 PM   #48
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I think 8 should be the goal. 10 max. Every series could've been shortened by 2-3 episodes.

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Old 08-19-2017, 02:27 PM   #49
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I'm perfectly fine with 8 episodes moving forward. All of the previous Netflix series dragged in places, some worse than others. 13 can be too much sometimes.

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Old 08-19-2017, 08:29 PM   #50
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I don't think this is the right comparison. Let's see Iron Fist season two and judge how ten seems. To me, it's case by case. They shouldn't write for a certain number, they should write their story and decide how long it'll take to tell.

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