Avengers Sequel ideas?

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

Okay Sam, lets not be making things up. lol I have the movie, I've watched it over 50 times (sadly). I don't think there was anything of the sort, regarding a sixth sense, or "hawk vision". I think all his cool stuff, was simply badass-ness for the movie.

And for the bolder part, here is what happened.

Fury and selvig are talking, I thought we prepared for this dr, harnessing energy from outer space....she's an energy source yada yada yada.

Then Fury asks selvig "where's agent barton?"
Selvig: "*snickers* The Hawk? He's up in his nest"

"agent barton, report"

then clint comes down

Fury: "I thought I told you to keep a close eye on this project" (something like that)

Barton: "Yeah, I see better from a distance"

Personally, I think you guys are thinking WAY too into this




bingo, the whole, no looking shots, and all the things he did, to me it was for being cool, and for plot

Who said anything about superpowers? Having an uncanny knack for something isn't the same thing as getting abducted by aliens or bitten by a radioactive bug or **** like that. I just think that Joss wanted to do a slight riff on Hawkeye's name to give it a little more meaning and backstory, and I think it's pretty darn cool that he did so.

As for getting powers from the Tesseract: that's pretty much a given. The Tesseract *does* give you powers. It's a god-cube or a wish-cube.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Who said anything about superpowers? Having an uncanny knack for something isn't the same thing as getting abducted by aliens or bitten by a radioactive bug or **** like that. I just think that Joss wanted to do a slight riff on Hawkeye's name to give it a little more meaning and backstory, and I think it's pretty darn cool that he did so.

As for getting powers from the Tesseract: that's pretty much a given. The Tesseract *does* give you powers. It's a god-cube or a wish-cube.

idk lol, I didn't say anything about super powers, but I just think you guys may be thinking a weeeee bit too deeply. Which normally is a great thing anyway. It makes speculating fun, that much we have to agree on.

[Adamantium]

William Hurt could return and become the Red Hulk. Just playin. I think too many Hulks might dampen the general audience and therefore create a loss for MCU. I as a fan would love to see either a Red Hulk or She Hulk. But I also think it would probably pan out to be too much and most likely not done right and/or rushed. I think a big part of what happens in Thor will determine A2. All will factor, but I think Thor's story will merge into GotG and expand deeper into A2. I haven't thought too much until we can get a grasp on what IM3 & Thor really are.

[DrCosmic]

So... I had this crazy thought about the different Phases... I had to get it out.

Phase I: IM, Hulk, IM2, Thor, Cap, Avengers (Loki, Thanos as supplier)
Phase II: IM3, Thor2, Cap2, GotG, Ant-Man, Avengers 2 (Korvac, Thanos as General)
Phase III: Cap3, IM4, Dr. Strange, Black Panther, Thor 3, Avengers 3 (Thanos w/Gauntlet)
Phase IV: Giant Man, Cap 4, Planet Hulk, BP2, Captain Marvel, Avengers 4 (Masters of Evil, Ultron as assembler)
Phase V: Strange2, Luke Cage, SHIELD, Cap 5, AM &Wasp, Avengers 5 (Super Adaptoid, Vision, Ultron as creator)
Phase VI: Iron Fist, Cap 6, YellowJacket, Strange 3, Heroes for Hire, Avengers 6 (Ultron w/Ultron Army)
Phase VII: IM5, Hulk3, Cap7, Thor4, Black Widow & Hawkeye, Avengers 7 (Kang with Civil War)
Phase VIII: H4H2, Dark Avengers, Secret Avengers, Defenders, West Coast Avengers, Avengers 8(Kang with Thanos/Ultron via Time travel)
Phase IX: H4H3, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, X-men, Avengers 9 (Kang, Immortus, the kitchen sink)
Phase X: ~2035, Let someone else take a crack at the MCU by that point, assuming it has it's other properties back.

Crazy I know, but that's my architecture mode at work.

[Spider-Vader]

Damn, that's alot. I don't really see Hank Pym supporting his own movie franchise. I think he'll be a one & done thing, with him just being an Avenger character after his own movie.

[KangConquers]

Speaking of Hank, does anyone think they should take the entirety of Ultron away from him, and have Ultron be a co-project?

People will say that it undermines his character arc, but think of this: You would be taking all of the spotlight away from 4 instantly recognizable characters, that helped propel the first film to 1.5 B, and putting it on a hero with kind of lame powers, who only fanboys recognize.

I love Hank Pym, but from a purely commercial, mainstream standpoint, a film revolving around him and his robot son as a sequel to Avengers would be suicide.

[DrCosmic]

Good point, I hadn't really thought of that, I just liked putting his different names down. No idea what his franchise could consist of.

I agree, Ultron should be a co-project, if he's going to be the center of an ensemble film. In the comics, it was fine to pull the spotlight off of all the other Avengers and put it squarely on Hank for a whole story arc. That wouldn't work so well with a film who's big selling point is these heroes coming together.

In my head, Ultron is a product of all of the Avengers, perhaps Pym may have designed the hardware, but the AI is from Stark, the power supply from Thor, the frame from Banner, the event horizon question/thought from Cap. Things like that.

[Chewy]

No, if I'm being blunt and not letting my fanboyism get in the way, I simply doubt Ultron will appear in this Avengers trilogy. If, after Downey, Evans, Hemsworth, and Whedon wrap up their runs on the characters, Marvel decides to continue on with lesser known Avengers, or recast and also add Pym, then he may appear then.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by Chewy

No, if I'm being blunt and not letting my fanboyism get in the way, I simply doubt Ultron will appear in this Avengers trilogy. If, after Downey, Evans, Hemsworth, and Whedon wrap up their runs on the characters, Marvel decides to continue on with lesser known Avengers, or recast and also add Pym, then he may appear then.

I've already stated what I think the Avengers trilogy will be, so I agree with you.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

Speaking of Hank, does anyone think they should take the entirety of Ultron away from him, and have Ultron be a co-project?

People will say that it undermines his character arc, but think of this: You would be taking all of the spotlight away from 4 instantly recognizable characters, that helped propel the first film to 1.5 B, and putting it on a hero with kind of lame powers, who only fanboys recognize.

I love Hank Pym, but from a purely commercial, mainstream standpoint, a film revolving around him and his robot son as a sequel to Avengers would be suicide.

Why would it be "suicide," and why would an Ultron story have to *focus* on Pym....? Look, Avengers 1 is technically a Thor story, and yet Hemsworth has the least screentime of the Big Four Avengers. Similarly, an Ultron plot might be technically a Hank Pym story, but it doesn't mean the camera follows him for most of the movie at the expense of the other characters.

[marcvader]

Yeah, this Ultron suggestion leaves me scratching my head. How does Pym creating Ultron effect the focus off of the rest of the Avengers? They'd have to deal with this deadly problem regardless of who created him so why change it?

[DrCosmic]

The issue is that Ultron has a crazy emotional connection to Pym, and none at all to the other characters, thus, he doesn't serve as well as a team villain without predominate focus being put on Hank Pym, as it has in past Ultron storylines.

They can do this with Loki because not only can Loki make emotional relationships with the rest of the Avengers very quickly and relatively easily, being an emotional being, but he can leave his origin behind basically, and Thor being his brother becomes incidental. In Ultron's case, his Oedipus complex is pretty much the central tenet of his character, and because of that, the most satisfying endings involve Pym confronting him on that level. In Avengers, Thor and Loki was out of the way pretty early. Stark was the one who was figuring out Loki's plot, and Hulk is the one who ultimately physically defeated him. I don't think that would pay off the same if Loki's entire motivation for all his actions was his relationship with Thor.

[marcvader]

The Oedipus complex is only one facet of Ultron there's more to it than that and Joss is more than capable to realize this.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

The issue is that Ultron has a crazy emotional connection to Pym, and none at all to the other characters, thus, he doesn't serve as well as a team villain without predominate focus being put on Hank Pym, as it has in past Ultron storylines.

They can do this with Loki because not only can Loki make emotional relationships with the rest of the Avengers very quickly and relatively easily, being an emotional being, but he can leave his origin behind basically, and Thor being his brother becomes incidental. In Ultron's case, his Oedipus complex is pretty much the central tenet of his character, and because of that, the most satisfying endings involve Pym confronting him on that level. In Avengers, Thor and Loki was out of the way pretty early. Stark was the one who was figuring out Loki's plot, and Hulk is the one who ultimately physically defeated him. I don't think that would pay off the same if Loki's entire motivation for all his actions was his relationship with Thor.

This. Pym would have to be central to the plot, and he's a much harder sell than any of the big 4.

[DrCosmic]

He is kind of a harder sell, eh? He should be fine though if hi movie does well.

Originally Posted by marcvader

The Oedipus complex is only one facet of Ultron there's more to it than that and Joss is more than capable to realize this.

Well, I hope I'm capable if that's so. What other facets does he have?

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

He is kind of a harder sell, eh? He should be fine though if hi movie does well.



Well, I hope I'm capable if that's so. What other facets does he have?

He's called Ant-Man. His power is he shrinks. If you step back and look at it, it's laughable. What kid is going to want to be Ant-Man for Halloween? Giant Man is more useful, but still the whole size-changing idea falls into the realm of sort of cheesy, 1950s B-movie, and won't work as a modern tent pole.

[TacomaTruck90]

this is a little far fetch but how about ...not having any knowledge of what will happen in the next couple of MCU films...Assuming Loki gets in imprision by Odin and Thor, the Other and Thanos find him and some how he makes a deal with them again some how Loki comes back to Earth, Shield finds out and confronts him. Shield convinces the Avengers to pursue Loki and find out why he has came back to Earth thinking he will try to invade earth. While some of the Avengers are willing to aid maybe ( Cap, Widow Hawk), other Avengers ( Ironman, Thor, Banner) are not so willing to trust Shield cause of prior events. They all become caught off guard when intead Thanos and the Chitarui come knocking down earths door. I know there probally holes in the plot forgive im not a screen writer, but thats an idea i have without intrdocuing to many new things ( which wouldnt be such a bad thing either)

[Ultra Ham]

I think Ultron would be an awesome Avengers movie villain, but I feel he should be used at least one movie after Pym is introduced. If Pym comes in and all of a sudden is behind the main threat it would seem pretty bad on Hank, but once he's been established as part of the team, then he can accidentally create an evil robot and audiences will accept it more. Of course they can introduce him much earlier as a harmless robot but he should go evil until later.

Having Stark help create Ultron like in AEMH is a great idea and I can see them going the same route if they ever use him. One of the problems that they might face though is how cliche a storyline of an evil AI has become in cinema and they might need to take some liberties in order to keep it fresh. Despite the problems he has, Ultron is a huge part of the Avengers History and should totally be used at some point.

[ericadawn16]

Although having an evil AI is a nice contrast to his beloved Jarvis.

[marcvader]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

He is kind of a harder sell, eh? He should be fine though if his movie does well.

Well of course that's what I would expect and am counting on.

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Well, I hope I'm capable if that's so. What other facets does he have?

Really Dr.C?

[DrCosmic]

Honestly... the only Ultron story I've read was the one in Runaways. Watching him on EMH doesn't give me any ideas either. You could always do him like a typical AI villain wanting to upgrade humanity or some such, but I wasn't clear how much of that had actually been used with him in the past.

Thinking about that, he could actually create the Life Model Decoys without it being a joke. Going further, he could be as powerful as he is (Adamantium Shell, Encephalo-Beams or whatever) because he feels he can more efficiently defend the planet than the Avengers. That'd be a nice twist for a robot villain.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Honestly... the only Ultron story I've read was the one in Runaways. Watching him on EMH doesn't give me any ideas either. You could always do him like a typical AI villain wanting to upgrade humanity or some such, but I wasn't clear how much of that had actually been used with him in the past.

Thinking about that, he could actually create the Life Model Decoys without it being a joke. Going further, he could be as powerful as he is (Adamantium Shell, Encephalo-Beams or whatever) because he feels he can more efficiently defend the planet than the Avengers. That'd be a nice twist for a robot villain.

His whole arc centers around two characters who have the incredibly unlikeable power of shrinking. He's a great villain (albeit a bit one note), but I have doubts that Ant-Man can break 100 M domestic. The power isn't marketable at all. Why would you center an Avengers film around such an unmarketable character in Ant-Man, just to keep to comic book Canon? Make Stark and Banner his co-creator, so he at least ties into characters who Avengers 1 viewers will care about.

[marcvader]

I disagree. The short animatic clip that was shown at Comicon showed the potential and one aspect of how cool the power and action packed it can be.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by marcvader

I disagree. The short animatic clip that was shown at Comicon showed the potential and one aspect of how cool the power and action packed it can be.

Have we even seen it yet, or just that extremely basic flash rendering of it?

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

His whole arc centers around two characters who have the incredibly unlikeable power of shrinking. He's a great villain (albeit a bit one note), but I have doubts that Ant-Man can break 100 M domestic. The power isn't marketable at all. Why would you center an Avengers film around such an unmarketable character in Ant-Man, just to keep to comic book Canon? Make Stark and Banner his co-creator, so he at least ties into characters who Avengers 1 viewers will care about.

I agree with you about putting Ultron's arc on all the Avengers, and not focusing on Pym, I feel that. I would never put Pym square in the center of an Avengers movie. I don't think that Ant-Man's powers are the death knell you describe. They have some comical associations, and can easily be cheesy, like Cap's uniform, but they can be developed into cool things if the script is smart. He's less marketable, sure, but he's not unmarketable, not by a long shot.