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View Poll Results: Is it time to legalize pot?
Yes 177 74.37%
No 48 20.17%
I don't know 13 5.46%
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Old 01-29-2014, 12:13 PM   #1
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Old 01-29-2014, 12:13 PM   #2
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Default Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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Originally Posted by LOBO3315a View Post
Can you cure the common cold, stop brain anyurisms, make the blind see again, and cause the lame to walk? Sounds like you've been drinking the cannibus koolaid, my friend.

I don't use, yet I'm for legalization. What people do in their own homes is their own business, as far as I'm concerned. Just don't try to wrap your desire to be giggly and silly from smoking into some homiopathic Messiah rant.
I'm going to tell you a story...

A while back, I started coming down with a serious case of dehydration. It was a hot summer, and to compound things, I had been incredibly stressed out due to life issues. Needless to say, I felt like hell. Constantly tired, out of it, and thirsty.

So one Monday I decided to go to the doctor. After a brief check-up, I was scheduled for a blood test that Tuesday to determine if I had anemia and/or diabetes. Needless to say, I wasn't feeling very good about it.

So I went in, got the blood test done, and was left to await my fate on Friday. I went back home that day still feeling awful. No energy, a constant thirst. I wanted to crawl into a corner and die.

But then....

One of my old roommates shows up to hang out for the week. And he brings a major stash of weed with him. Now I had been smoking off and on for the past year. I liked weed, and I liked the feeling of weed. But I hadn't really begun to understand weed. So me and my old roommate decided to go ahead and smoke.

But not just that night. We smoked every single day that week. I was literally high from Tuesday night to Friday morning. Straight. We smoked, we made music, I went to class. It was fun.

And in all of this....I completely forgot I was supposed to be sick. I felt FAN-friggin-TASTIC. No dehydration. I had energy. Zip. I felt great.

So I go to the appointment on Friday, and the doctor asks me how I had been feeling. Naturally, I tell him, "More of the same." But, thankfully, I got the results back, and they come back negative. I'm a picture of health.

The doctor tells me it's just stress, and to try to stay out of the sun a bit. I walked home feeling elated. Not just because I was healthy, but it was in that moment I began to fully appreciate the power of marijuana.

Marijuana may in fact be the most effective natural medication in the world, and yet it's usage is still outlawed in this country based solely on fear and traditionalism.

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Old 01-29-2014, 12:13 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by summerteeth View Post
1. Oversimplification. Different drugs, different risks. Not drinking alcohol responsibly can lead to greater risks, you can dies of alcohol poisoning or if you get behind a wheel you endanger yourself and others. That being said, drinking a glass of wine a night poses no risk and actually leads to health benefits, while smoking every night leads to the risks I already talked about. Using alcohol a certain way is extremely dangerous, but using it in moderation is not harmful to you at all, while smoking marijuana regularly is. Without this sort of clarification the President did the country a disservice.

2. Still has the same effects and can lower your IQ if you smoke it before the age of 25, while the brain is still developing.

3. That's just depressing.
1) Different drugs have different levels of risk.

For example, alcohol kills enough people to considered a high risk substance.

Cannabis doesn't kill anyone so it should be considered a low risk substance.

Keeping the high risk substance legal while keeping the low risk substance illegal makes absolutely no sense. Especially when the low risk substances has dozens of medicinal uses (treats PTSD, nueropathic pain, cancer, AIDS, epilepsy, multiple sclerosis, etc) and the high risk substance barely has one. And how many industrial uses does alcohol have? Hemp has over a thousand.

You don't want alcohol and cannabis set against the same standards for legalization because cannabis blows alcohol out of the water when it comes to safety and usefulness. Keeping alcohol legal while banning cannabis is such foolish hypocrisy it shoots China sized holes in any prohibitionist's argument, including yours.

2) Source please.

3) What's depressing is that despite being the richest countries on the planet, Americans rank's 17th when it comes to happiness. Maybe more Americans should smoke a joint and slowly realize how good food really taste, how impressive music really sounds, how amazing nature really looks, how layered entertainment can be, how pleasurable sex really is, etc.

Most drugs help you escape reality. Cannabis helps you appreciate reality.

Sometimes appreciating what you have drives ambition away but that's better than drudging through your entire life for a distant tomorrow while popping prescription pills because the whole process is so uncomfortable and unnatural.

I'm not saying everyone should smoke weed all day. Moderation is key. But there's nothing wrong with using something that reminds you to smell the roses every now and then.

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Old 01-29-2014, 01:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
1) Different drugs have different levels of risk.

For example, alcohol kills enough people to considered a high risk substance.

Cannabis doesn't kill anyone so it should be considered a low risk substance.

Keeping the high risk substance legal while keeping the low risk substance illegal makes absolutely no sense. Especially when the low risk substances has dozens of medicinal uses (treats PTSD, nueropathic pain, cancer, AIDS, epilepsy, multiple sclerosis, etc) and the high risk substance barely has one. And how many industrial uses does alcohol have? Hemp has over a thousand.

You don't want alcohol and cannabis set against the same standards for legalization because cannabis blows alcohol out of the water when it comes to safety and usefulness. Keeping alcohol legal while banning cannabis is such foolish hypocrisy it shoots China sized holes in any prohibitionist's argument, including yours.

2) Source please.

3) What's depressing is that despite being the richest countries on the planet, Americans rank's 17th when it comes to happiness. Maybe more Americans should smoke a joint and slowly realize how good food really taste, how impressive music really sounds, how amazing nature really looks, how layered entertainment can be, how pleasurable sex really is, etc.

Most drugs help you escape reality. Cannabis helps you appreciate reality.

Sometimes appreciating what you have drives ambition away but that's better than drudging through your entire life for a distant tomorrow while popping prescription pills because the whole process is so uncomfortable and unnatural.

I'm not saying everyone should smoke weed all day. Moderation is key. But there's nothing wrong with using something that reminds you to smell the roses every now and then.
1. How many times do i need to say I favor legalization for it to sink into your head that I am not a prohibitionist. All I'm saying is I would have liked a more nuanced response from the President unlike the one he gave, his response likely encourages marijuana use which is not what we should be doing. Not against medicinal marijuana at all, like any other prescription drug though you still have to be wary of abuse, but I will acknowledge it has benefits in this field.

2.http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0...o-to-i-q-loss/

3. Yes, instead of actually dealing with the problems at hand let's just numb ourselves up that's the ticket. Seriously, why not hop on a bike and ride through nature, won't that be a better way to stop and smell the roses then locking yourself in your room and smoking pot? Better diets, better stress management, better exercise, religion which fosters a greater sense of community and belonging. These are the things that will make us happier and stronger nation.

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Old 01-29-2014, 01:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II - Part 2

The president's comments didn't "encourage" use, summerteeth. He was speaking as both a president and a parent, and rightfully so.

If you really look at what he was saying, he was basically saying that US citizens should have the freedom to make up their own damn minds, and to exhibit sense and responsibility in their choices.

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Old 01-29-2014, 01:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II

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why not hop on a bike and ride through nature, won't that be a better way to stop and smell the roses then locking yourself in your room and smoking pot?
Annual deaths from cannabis = 0
Annual deaths from bear attacks = 3

http://www.statisticbrain.com/bear-attack-statistics/

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Old 01-29-2014, 02:04 PM   #7
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Annual deaths from cannabis = 0
Annual deaths from bear attacks = 3

http://www.statisticbrain.com/bear-attack-statistics/



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Old 01-29-2014, 03:03 PM   #8
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1. How many times do i need to say I favor legalization for it to sink into your head that I am not a prohibitionist. All I'm saying is I would have liked a more nuanced response from the President unlike the one he gave, his response likely encourages marijuana use which is not what we should be doing. Not against medicinal marijuana at all, like any other prescription drug though you still have to be wary of abuse, but I will acknowledge it has benefits in this field.

2.http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0...o-to-i-q-loss/

3. Yes, instead of actually dealing with the problems at hand let's just numb ourselves up that's the ticket. Seriously, why not hop on a bike and ride through nature, won't that be a better way to stop and smell the roses then locking yourself in your room and smoking pot? Better diets, better stress management, better exercise, religion which fosters a greater sense of community and belonging. These are the things that will make us happier and stronger nation.
1. Well if the president's words cause people to switch from alcohol to cannabis then more power to him. He probably saved a few hundred lives.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/12/0...raffic-deaths/

2. Sorry but that Duke study has since been debunked.

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/15/actu..._iq_after_all/

3. I didn't say cannabis numbs the senses. What numbs the senses are prescription drugs (100,000 deaths per year).

Cannabis does the opposite. It improves the sensation of taste, music, sex, etc.

and not everyone locks themselves in the room after smoking weed. Some people actually leave the house. Some go to concerts, some go out to eat, some go hiking, some play sports, some just walk around and observe nature/people/things with an altered perception.

Or they can stay home, cook something yummy and watch LOTR.

But not everyone who smokes becomes a lethargic recluse but even so, people should have the freedom to do that if they want to.

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Old 01-29-2014, 04:00 PM   #9
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1. Well if the president's words cause people to switch from alcohol to cannabis then more power to him. He probably saved a few hundred lives.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/12/0...raffic-deaths/

2. Sorry but that Duke study has since been debunked.

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/15/actu..._iq_after_all/

3. I didn't say cannabis numbs the senses. What numbs the senses are prescription drugs (100,000 deaths per year).

Cannabis does the opposite. It improves the sensation of taste, music, sex, etc.

and not everyone locks themselves in the room after smoking weed. Some people actually leave the house. Some go to concerts, some go out to eat, some go hiking, some play sports, some just walk around and observe nature/people/things with an altered perception.

Or they can stay home, cook something yummy and watch LOTR.

But not everyone who smokes becomes a lethargic recluse but even so, people should have the freedom to do that if they want to.
2. The Duke study was not debunked, questions arose because of a simulation not actual data like the Duke study. I wouldn't trust Salon it is kind of a liberal rag. The simulation showed that socioeconomic factors could cause a decline in IQ like the Duke study. Does this mean the study was incorrect? No, not at all. What it does mean is that it needs to be further analyzed, but so far even under further analysis (removing socioeconomic factors) they came to the same results.

http://www.livescience.com/26247-does-pot-lower-iq.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/does-mar...allenges-link/

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Old 01-29-2014, 04:41 PM   #10
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1. How many times do i need to say I favor legalization for it to sink into your head that I am not a prohibitionist. All I'm saying is I would have liked a more nuanced response from the President unlike the one he gave, his response likely encourages marijuana use which is not what we should be doing. Not against medicinal marijuana at all, like any other prescription drug though you still have to be wary of abuse, but I will acknowledge it has benefits in this field.
You mean more nuanced like Nixon or Reagan who try put the fear of god into people that Marijuana is the biggest threat in the country and might heaven forbid turn you into a communist?

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Old 01-29-2014, 05:07 PM   #11
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You mean more nuanced like Nixon or Reagan who try put the fear of god into people that Marijuana is the biggest threat in the country and might heaven forbid turn you into a communist?
Nah he meant nuanced like saying it burned your brain, or perhaps nuanced as a gateway into drug addiction hell!!!

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Old 01-29-2014, 05:10 PM   #12
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2. The Duke study was not debunked, questions arose because of a simulation not actual data like the Duke study. I wouldn't trust Salon it is kind of a liberal rag. The simulation showed that socioeconomic factors could cause a decline in IQ like the Duke study. Does this mean the study was incorrect? No, not at all. What it does mean is that it needs to be further analyzed, but so far even under further analysis (removing socioeconomic factors) they came to the same results.

http://www.livescience.com/26247-does-pot-lower-iq.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/does-mar...allenges-link/
From your second link:

Quote:
Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, said observational studies of people like the Duke work can't definitively demonstrate that marijuana causes irreversible effects on the brain. In an email, she said Rogeberg's paper "looks sound" but doesn't prove that his alternative explanation is correct either.
So it seems the results are inconclusive at best.

Either way saying 24-25 year olds also experience lower IQ is stretching it.

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Old 01-29-2014, 07:31 PM   #13
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Nah he meant nuanced like saying it burned your brain, or perhaps nuanced as a gateway into drug addiction hell!!!

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Old 01-30-2014, 01:16 PM   #14
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I just submitted this Letter to the Editor to my local newspaper, regarding Florida's medicinal cannabis measure on the ballot this November. I hope they publish it!

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"Medicinal Cannabis: The First Sensible Step to Making Florida Rich Again"

I applaud the Florida Supreme Court's 4-3 decision to allow medicinal cannabis on the ballot this November. For thousands of people to whom so-called "traditional" medications are both a hindrance and detrimental, this presents a compassionate and viable alternative. And with the state House of Representatives considering the legalization of the high-cannabidiol (CBD) strain known as "Charlotte's Web" for legalization to help children with Davet's syndrome, epilepsy and other severe seizure disorders, this presents a monumental first step forward to a more sensible policy.

But we should make one thing perfectly clear here: medicinal legalization is but the first step on a road to even greater riches: the responsible implementation of a fully legal system of both medicinal AND recreational cannabis, as well as paving the way for the utilization of Florida's vastly underutilized agricultural economy for the cultivation of industrial hemp.

Cannabis (which is how it should be referred to, "marijuana" originating as a derogatory pejorative in William Randolph Hearst's yellow journalism campaign in the early 1930s to protect his interests in the timber industry, which was later co-opted by Henry J. Anslinger in his own quest to vilify and criminalize cannabis following the repeal of alcohol prohibition) is a unique plant. It is not only benign enough for recreational consumption - far more benign than alcohol - but also beneficial enough for medicinal use. These two compliment each other in such a way that both industries could operate side-by-side. In Colorado, cannabis plants are grown on a per-patient basis: specific plants are grown for specific patients to treat specific symptoms. Florida should look to the Centennial State as an example as it develops and refines its own medicinal industry. For those patients with chronic pain, THC (tetrahydrocannbinol) is a less addictive and more effective alternative to the far more dangerous opiates and amphetamines available on the current market. In addition, while those said "medications" carry a high risk of abuse and overdose, it is virtually impossible to overdose on cannabis. Not one death attributed solely to cannabis and/or THC has been recorded in all of history.

So far as recreational legalization is concerned, let's look at the tried and true facts: THC is far less dangerous than alcohol, there is no "hangover" after consumption, and the level of impairment is markedly less than that of alcohol. Why? Because alcoholic beverages, including liquors, are all synthetically processed and manufactured. Cannabis cultivation resulting in high-THC strains (and I do concede that these strains have become stronger as the years have passed) is a prime example of husbandry, whereby plants are bred naturally for these specific qualities. But no matter how strong they are, they have not negatively impacted their consumers, unlike alcohol which contributes to violence, judgmental impairment, and destructive impulsiveness. Cannabis has none of these adverse effects on its partakers.

The wealth that Florida could potentially accrue from legal recreational and medicinal cannabis could very well lead to an economic renaissance for our state. I observe hundreds of acres of agricultural land in South Florida alone that are not being utilized. What better way to reinvigorate our farmers than to allow them to produce industrial hemp? This one plant could create thousands upon thousands of jobs in manufacturing and textiles alone, not to mention paper. It is a far more renewable resource than timber, and could even lead to a bettering of our climate. This is just the tip of the iceberg, and with a maximum of one page to state my case, I will encourage all of you to do your own research after reading this.

I myself can attest to the fact that the Misdemeanor Drug Court Program, which primarily focuses on victims of nonviolent cannabis possession charges, is the single greatest waste of time, personnel and resources in our system today. I have even spoken with law enforcement officials who have grown tired of having to waste time in writing reports and arresting people for simply having cannabis in their possession. Cannabis is not the crime-inducing problem we have been told it is since we were children. It is instead a quota-filling check mark that serves no purpose in the justice system. Legalization will allow our law enforcement officers to refocus their efforts on truly destructive cases of crime, and better allow to keep us and our children safe from the true dangers that plague our society.

And in this there is one issue that I take very seriously, an issue I want your readers and my fellow citizens to acknowledge and approach correctly: Just because I favor legalization does NOT mean I encourage public consumption. Even with the advent of vaporization (i.e. electronic cigarettes), in particular regards to cannabis and its effects on the developing brain, for the sake of our children public consumption should be banned when (and it is "when") cannabis is legalized. While our brains do possess and produce endocannabanoids (which THC mimics, and in fact could help patients suffering from concussions to recover more quickly), to expose young, developing minds to an increase of these chemicals would be detrimental.

Florida stands to gain so much from legalization, and medicinal legalization is the first step to responsible implementation of cannabis and hemp industries that will prove help our society. I hope all of you, or at least the vast majority, to vote for medicinal cannabis come November 4th, and take this first step.

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Old 01-30-2014, 03:18 PM   #15
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I think you should've included the fact that regulating cannabis will better restrict access to children because drug dealers don't ask for ID.

But overall your letter is thorough and convincing. Well done!

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Old 01-30-2014, 03:29 PM   #16
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Apparently there was a hearing to convince PA politicians to support medical marijuana legislation. The testimony was so powerful that a couple senators were brought to tears and some anti-cannabis detractors were converted to supporters by the end.

But here's the thing. You can't find the hearing on YouTube and the local CSPAN-type station that was scheduled to broadcast the hearing a few times that night completely ignored it. So basically a media blackout.

I say this not to discourage people but to remind others what we're up against. Much of the media are slanted against medical marijuana despite the growing public support for it.

Why this bias exists is anyone's guess but it's undeniably real.

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Old 01-30-2014, 07:05 PM   #17
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Because the media is dependent on endorsements from Big Alcohol and Big Tobacco.

Thanks for your thoughts MD Yeah, I should've included that but maybe they'll ask me to write more stuff, who knows?

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Old 02-03-2014, 03:57 PM   #18
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Pot buyers add more than $1M to Colorado tax coffers

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Old 02-03-2014, 04:20 PM   #19
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Collecting taxes at around 3 times the rate of alcohol, and saving who knows how much in prisons.

Sounds like a win-win.

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Old 02-03-2014, 04:21 PM   #20
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My favorite part:

Quote:
In a back-of-the-napkin calculation, those who shared the data say they figure February’s tax collections in Colorado likely will exceed a quarter of a million dollars a day, putting it on pace to near $100 million annually.

When Colorado first considered legalizing recreational marijuana, it was estimated the first year’s tax take would be $67 million.
and this part was the funniest:

Quote:
Critics of the legalization movement say the tax revenues appear seductive until the costs of pot addiction are calculated.
Yeah cause cannabis "addiction" will cost anywhere near 100 million.

lmao

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Old 02-03-2014, 04:22 PM   #21
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Collecting taxes at around 3 times the rate of alcohol, and saving who knows how much in prisons.

Sounds like a win-win.
Except for all the overdosing going on.

Seriously, I saw that other thread about the girl in the UK and started to post but y'all were doing such a fine job debunking that crap that I didn't even feel I shoudl dignify it with a bump.

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Old 02-03-2014, 04:23 PM   #22
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It needs to become legal in California and Oregon this year. Seriously.

Apparently though according to stats California has a better shot in 2016 due to it being a presidential election year.

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Old 02-03-2014, 04:25 PM   #23
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Yeah cause cannabis "addiction" will cost anywhere near 100 million.

lmao
The writing is on the wall and they know it. Panic will make their claims even more silly and illogical and speed the process even more.

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Old 02-03-2014, 04:40 PM   #24
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Better diets, better stress management, better exercise, religion which fosters a greater sense of community and belonging. These are the things that will make us happier and stronger nation.
I disagree. Religion has been proven to do the exact opposite of what you said regarding nations.

Well, look at you, you just solved everyone's problems with the solution of, "Better diets, better stress management, better exercise." It must be so easy to do then.

Perhaps the reason why Americans are so unhappy is that the government does everything it can to police it's citizens and try to "protect" them from themselves (ie. the War on Drugs). It has nothing to do with marijuana. Legalizing it is a step in the right direction because it allows adults to make decisions for themselves. It allows adults to be adults. Imagine that! Being treated like an adult. What a novel idea.


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Old 02-03-2014, 05:14 PM   #25
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana II - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigdbfan View Post
It needs to become legal in California and Oregon this year. Seriously.

Apparently though according to stats California has a better shot in 2016 due to it being a presidential election year.
Florida's gonna beat 'em to it!!!

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