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View Poll Results: Is it time to legalize pot?
Yes 177 74.37%
No 48 20.17%
I don't know 13 5.46%
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:03 AM   #101
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana III

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
I certainly agree with you about the stupidity of such laws and I do give Obama credit over prioritizing resources. But in the end, ignoring laws that the President personally disagrees with is something that the President should not be doing. It's like what Arnold Schwarzenegger did in California where even though he personally supported gay marriage, but as California's executive, he had no choice but to enforce the law of the awful Proposition 9.

No man can just pick and choose what laws to follow, not even the President. If one just picked and chose what to follow, then there is no point to the law.


Even though they were in the right morally and ethically in regards to the Fugitive Slave Act, the North had no right to do what they did in their opposition to it. It was a Federal act and Federal supremacy was clearly established in McCulloch v. Maryland.

Not only that, but with the way the North responded to the Fugitive Slave Act, all it did was provoke the South and confirm their fears that the North were nothing but a bunch of crazy abolitionists. The North's reaction made the Civil War all the more inevitable.
But if people don't stand against unjust laws, unjust laws will never be defeated.

Governments often make unjust laws, the idea that we have respect the law because its the law, can be used unjust laws in dictatorships or laws that just suppress people's freedom. Government can pass unjust unjust laws and make injustice legal.

MLK, Nelson Mandela and Gandhi were all considered criminals for not summiting to unjust laws, should they have given up and simply submitted to them?

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Old 03-16-2014, 10:17 AM   #102
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana III

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The South enslaved human beings and deserved the "agitation" of runaway slaves being freed by the North.
The North was in the moral right, but they had no legal right to do so. Noncompliance with the Fugitive Slave Act is one of the many reasons why the South didn't even bother giving Lincoln a chance when he was elected President.

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Old 03-16-2014, 11:30 AM   #103
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The North was in the moral right, but they had no legal right to do so. Noncompliance with the Fugitive Slave Act is one of the many reasons why the South didn't even bother giving Lincoln a chance when he was elected President.
So the North should've complied with unjust laws to satisfy the morally bankrupt South?

How does that end slavery? If anything it would simply increase the acceptance of slavery in both the North and South.

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Old 03-16-2014, 12:21 PM   #104
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana III

Back on track. This guy utterly destroys Harrigan.

Speak For Yourself, Narc — An Open Letter to DEA Official Thomas M. Harrigan

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Old 03-16-2014, 12:44 PM   #105
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana III

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So the North should've complied with unjust laws to satisfy the morally bankrupt South?

How does that end slavery? If anything it would simply increase the acceptance of slavery in both the North and South.
Frankly, the only way slavery was going to end was through civil war. Even if the North complied with the Fugitive Slave Act, it still was never going to be accepted up there regardless, particularly in New England and New York. Civil war was inevitable because we had the South which was becoming more afraid because they saw the writing on the wall (it wasn't a matter of if, but when and how slavery was going to end) and more stubborn (because of Northern provocations). And we had the North which was more than willing and happy to provoke the South in a manner of ways.

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Old 03-16-2014, 12:48 PM   #106
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana III

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But if people don't stand against unjust laws, unjust laws will never be defeated.

Governments often make unjust laws, the idea that we have respect the law because its the law, can be used unjust laws in dictatorships or laws that just suppress people's freedom. Government can pass unjust unjust laws and make injustice legal.
We have courts that help get rid of unjust laws. And when courts make bad decisions, they have often gone back to reverse their errors.

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MLK, Nelson Mandela and Gandhi were all considered criminals for not summiting to unjust laws, should they have given up and simply submitted to them?
What made them successful is not because they broke the law. They were successful because they also accepted the consequences of breaking the law. Their movements gained traction because people saw them getting punished for something that was unfair.

If they weren't getting punished, and if they didn't accept the consequences of their actions, they probably wouldn't have been as effective.

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Old 03-16-2014, 02:16 PM   #107
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We have courts that help get rid of unjust laws. And when courts make bad decisions, they have often gone back to reverse their errors.
Cannabis has been illegal since 1937.

The courts have clearly failed to fix this unjust law.


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What made them successful is not because they broke the law. They were successful because they also accepted the consequences of breaking the law. Their movements gained traction because people saw them getting punished for something that was unfair.

If they weren't getting punished, and if they didn't accept the consequences of their actions, they probably wouldn't have been as effective.
We've already had nearly 20 million people arrested for cannabis. That should be enough unjust punishment to change public opinion. Now it's time for Colorado and Washington to be allowed to experiment with legalization so we can do a cost-benefit analysis and see if legalization is a reasonable option nationally.

Nixon put the DEA in charge of re-scheduling and studying cannabis making it nearly impossible to change drug policy on a national level regardless of what the majority of the public wants.

What will help this movement gain traction at this point is the public seeing legalization which does not result in anarchy and death and that's exactly what in happening in Colorado/Washington and what prohibitionist are afraid of.


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Old 03-16-2014, 05:47 PM   #108
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana III

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Cannabis has been illegal since 1937.

The courts have clearly failed to fix this unjust law.




We've already had nearly 20 million people arrested for cannabis. That should be enough unjust punishment to change public opinion. Now it's time for Colorado and Washington to be allowed to experiment with legalization so we can do a cost-benefit analysis and see if legalization is a reasonable option nationally.

Nixon put the DEA in charge of re-scheduling and studying cannabis making it nearly impossible to change drug policy on a national level regardless of what the majority of the public wants.

What will help this movement gain traction at this point is the public seeing legalization which does not result in anarchy and death and that's exactly what in happening in Colorado/Washington and what prohibitionist are afraid of.
You seriously cannot be comparing the prohibition of cannabis to Jim Crow, the occupation of India, and apartheid. It's not an unjust law, just a stupid one. There's a big difference.

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Old 03-16-2014, 06:08 PM   #109
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana III

Actually, while that is an exaggeration, there is a serious racial (racist) component to current drug laws.

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Old 03-16-2014, 06:13 PM   #110
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Actually, while that is an exaggeration, there is a serious racial (racist) component to current drug laws.
Without a doubt. While the laws that passed had no racist intention, implementation and execution of the law has become horribly biased against African-Americans. It's a good reason why they should be repealed.

But the context of the law (banning cannabis) is not an unjust law. The Federal government has long had the right to regulate the market and it has decided to use its power to ban the sale of marijuana. And the people who have been charged with possession are still people who have willingly chose to break it, it's not like they're being denied the right to vote or forced to sit in the back of the bus simply because of something they had no choice over like the color of their skin.

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Old 03-16-2014, 07:22 PM   #111
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Without a doubt. While the laws that passed had no racist intention, implementation and execution of the law has become horribly biased against African-Americans. It's a good reason why they should be repealed.

But the context of the law (banning cannabis) is not an unjust law. The Federal government has long had the right to regulate the market and it has decided to use its power to ban the sale of marijuana. And the people who have been charged with possession are still people who have willingly chose to break it, it's not like they're being denied the right to vote or forced to sit in the back of the bus simply because of something they had no choice over like the color of their skin.
Unjust simply means morally unfair.

Arresting 20 million people for smoking plant far less dangerous than alcohol is not only stupid, it's morally unfair. The victims may be able to vote but they may not be able to find a quality job. Their lives derailed forever.

Taking away kids from their parents because a parent used a substance far less dangerous than alcohol is morally unfair.

Creating a black market, which empowers organized crime, worth billions while depriving schools and health services of desperately needed funding is morally unfair.

Depriving millions of people who could use cannabis over prescription drugs to alleviate suffering without the devastating side effects is terribly unjust.

These "stupid" laws impact millions of lives unnecessarily. The idea that these people deserved whatever punishment because they chose not to obey a stupid law is silly. If the government outlawed sugar and ruined people's job prospects, took away their kids, empowered gangs and cartels, took away access to superior medicine, etc it would also be morally unfair. Doing those things can be just as bad as telling someone they have to use inferior bathrooms or have to sit out an election process.

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Old 03-17-2014, 05:54 PM   #112
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana III

Everything you say I mostly agree with. But in the end, it still doesn't properly explain how they're unjust, just further reinforces how stupid they are.

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Old 03-17-2014, 07:27 PM   #113
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana III

$5.00 says that if a red state passed a law that legalized recreational marijuana before a blue state, the DOJ would be all over it.

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Old 03-17-2014, 11:20 PM   #114
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5 bucks says we'll never know so there's no use speculating.

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Old 03-17-2014, 11:22 PM   #115
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Red states have less fun, that's for sure.

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Old 03-17-2014, 11:35 PM   #116
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana III

Not true.

They just do it all behind closed doors or out in the country, then act shocked and outraged when the blue states do it out in the open. Which they probably also consider fun to do.

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Old 03-27-2014, 10:21 PM   #117
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Legalizing medical marijuana causes a minor drop in homicides and assaults.

Bigger drops expected in places where recreational cannabis is legalized since it's hypothesized that the drops are due to people substituting alcohol with cannabis.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...2816-American1

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Old 04-07-2014, 06:39 PM   #118
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana III

Eric Holder Would Be 'Glad To Work With Congress' To Reschedule Marijuana

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Old 04-08-2014, 09:45 AM   #119
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Legalizing medical marijuana causes a minor drop in homicides and assaults.

Bigger drops expected in places where recreational cannabis is legalized since it's hypothesized that the drops are due to people substituting alcohol with cannabis.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...2816-American1
Now it's being reported that 3 months after recreation cannabis has been legal, crime in Denver has gone down slightly.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...ushpmg00000067

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Old 04-26-2014, 05:41 PM   #120
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Study suggest teen usage doesn't increase where medical marijuana is legal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...ushpmg00000067

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Old 05-30-2014, 06:52 PM   #121
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana III

House Blocks DEA From Targeting Medical Marijuana

Hemp Amendments Could Block DEA From Interfering With Programs Legalized By States

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Old 05-30-2014, 07:03 PM   #122
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I wish recreational cannabis were protected too.

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Old 06-03-2014, 01:15 AM   #123
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So, the source has me a little iffy, especially since there's a link to another article with a number that contradicts a number in this article, but if the general jist of things is heading in this direction...

Colorado Sells $19 Million in Cannabis in March: $1.9 Million Goes to Schools and Crime Down 10%

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Old 06-03-2014, 01:20 AM   #124
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Default Re: Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana III

It... it's almost like having access to weed doesn't turn people into deranged, murderous perverts. WAT AN AMAZING DISCOVERY

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Old 06-03-2014, 01:25 AM   #125
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So, the source has me a little iffy, especially since there's a link to another article with a number that contradicts a number in this article, but if the general jist of things is heading in this direction...

Colorado Sells $19 Million in Cannabis in March: $1.9 Million Goes to Schools and Crime Down 10%
Crime goes down 10%?

I can't wait to see how the prohibitionist try to spin that.

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