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Old 10-12-2015, 11:19 AM   #51
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Default Re: The Guns thread

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Originally Posted by GreenKToo View Post
Over 10,000 people a year are killed in the U.S. due to drunk driving. Should we ban cars and alcohol because a small percentage of the population can't control their urges. Afterall, if you take it away from all, even the responsible ones, the drunk driving problem would disappear.
A person that chooses to drive drunk is no better than a nut with a firearm.

To be honest, i'm not for or against guns, but it seems a very small percentage of the pop is the problem.
Those are accidents. Gun shootings in the majority of cases are not.

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Old 10-12-2015, 12:20 PM   #52
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A yes the Myth of Chicago being the worst city in terms of gun violence that is pushed by gun nuts.


Why don't the pro gun people talk about New Orleans or Memphis or Birmingham or Jacksonville or Oklahoma City or Kansas City and all the problem the gun laws there cause. It should be pointed out since the 70s Chicago has cut it's homicide rate in half and the majority of that drop has been in the past 10 years, how come that is never mentioned by the people trashing Chicago?

IF conservatives said anything about those cities Liberal would cry racism.

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Old 10-12-2015, 12:25 PM   #53
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Default Re: The Guns thread

I personally think that the Media and the President is using these shootings to divert attention away from things the President doesn't want the media to focus on.

All these shootings are NOT a gun issue really they are mental health and Pharma issue.

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Old 10-12-2015, 12:59 PM   #54
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Default Re: The Guns thread

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I personally think that the Media and the President is using these shootings to divert attention away from things the President doesn't want the media to focus on.

All these shootings are NOT a gun issue really they are mental health and Pharma issue.
Here's my thing.

It's easier to defend against a nut with a knife than a nut with a gun.

It's very difficult to get rid of nuts. So since nuts exist, let's make access to that easy kill device a little more difficult.

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Old 10-12-2015, 01:11 PM   #55
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You didn’t list Chicago by itself, you lumped them with two other states.

On the chart Chicago has 500. Higher than any other city I saw. Next up Detroit at 450

New Orleans is not surprising. Almost of all of these areas vote Democrat, yet the media wants paint a conservative voter picture on the problem.

The best solution for now it to increase security in the schools. Clearly tough gun laws do not stop shootings from happening.
It doesn't? Every other 1st world country in the world would disagree with this. We're the only country in the 1st world that has this happen with this much frequency.

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Old 10-12-2015, 01:23 PM   #56
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Default Re: The Guns thread

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Originally Posted by Unbreakable Lex View Post
Here's my thing.

It's easier to defend against a nut with a knife than a nut with a gun.

It's very difficult to get rid of nuts. So since nuts exist, let's make access to that easy kill device a little more difficult.

The big problem with that is that a lot of these guy don't get help until after they done something. We need Universal Mental Health care because most people don't go out and seek mental heath and even the people that try to get mental health can't afore the treatment. What needs to happen is that every school age kid (14-18) needs to be screened for a mental heath issue and the kids with specific issues should go through a special system that makes it harder for them to get guns and/or ammo.

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Old 10-12-2015, 01:24 PM   #57
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The big problem with that is that a lot of these guy don't get help until after they done something. We need Universal Mental Health care because most people don't go out and seek mental heath and even the people that try to get mental health can't afore the treatment.
That's kinda my point. It's hard to find the nuts. It's hard to restrict the nuts.

So let's just focus on what we can restrict.

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What needs to happen is that every school age kid (14-18) needs screened for a mental heath issue and the kids with specific issue should go through a special system that makes it harder for them to get guns and/or ammo.
That's unconstitutional. We don't need to hold a national database of who may commit something in the future based on some test.

Now, I'd be on board with that as a requirement to purchase a firearm. But not in general. Way to big brother for me.

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Old 10-12-2015, 02:08 PM   #58
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Default Re: The Guns thread

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Now, I'd be on board with that as a requirement to purchase a firearm. But not in general. Way to big brother for me.
Correct.

Not everyone is entitled to a driver's license. You have to be able to drive, and you have to be able to see. The 2nd Amendment's mention of a "well regulated militia" I think falls under the "ability" clause.

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Old 10-12-2015, 03:15 PM   #59
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Default Re: The Guns thread

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Originally Posted by Unbreakable Lex View Post
Here's my thing.

It's easier to defend against a nut with a knife than a nut with a gun.

It's very difficult to get rid of nuts. So since nuts exist, let's make access to that easy kill device a little more difficult.
I am for that but we need to set up a CLEAR guild lines on constitutes mental illness?

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Old 10-12-2015, 03:19 PM   #60
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Default Re: The Guns thread

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I am for that but we need to set up a CLEAR guild lines on constitutes mental illness?
Just do a case study on the NRA.

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Old 10-12-2015, 03:24 PM   #61
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Default Re: The Guns thread

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Just do a case study on the NRA.
We can look at of Hilary Clinton's supporters too.

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Old 10-13-2015, 12:47 AM   #62
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I wish more people here would just respect the constitution. Even if you disagree with it, amending stuff to it just opens up a lot. EDIT: The reason I say this is cause if we're going to develop a framework from this, it's a lot of risk if not careful that can effect all of us.

There is no quick solution to this issue. It's a societal thing. People without mental illness can have poor attitudes or even be in a different state time to time or change. People can be fickle (or evil too).

I do agree with herakles at least in the regard that mental health is a piece too look at. I support developing a better system of individualized medicine. Objective tests are good starting point but enough haven't been systemized into a clinical healthcare system. The danger is issuing forth a test that over 50% of the population doesn't pass...


Last edited by Hello2016; 10-13-2015 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 10-13-2015, 08:49 AM   #63
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I wish more people here would just respect the constitution. Even if you disagree with it, amending stuff to it just opens up a lot. EDIT: The reason I say this is cause if we're going to develop a framework from this, it's a lot of risk if not careful that can effect all of us.

There is no quick solution to this issue. It's a societal thing. People without mental illness can have poor attitudes or even be in a different state time to time or change. People can be fickle (or evil too).

I do agree with herakles at least in the regard that mental health is a piece too look at. I support developing a better system of individualized medicine. Objective tests are good starting point but enough haven't been systemized into a clinical healthcare system. The danger is issuing forth a test that over 50% of the population doesn't pass...
So the US is the only 1st world country in the world with mental health issues and that's why we are the country with the highest gun-related homicides?
:/

I'm sorry...but I just find this funny. It reminds me of that Onion article that stated "No way to prevent this,' says only nation where this regularly happens"

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Old 10-13-2015, 08:57 AM   #64
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Default Re: The Guns thread

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Originally Posted by Hello2016 View Post
I wish more people here would just respect the constitution. Even if you disagree with it, amending stuff to it just opens up a lot. EDIT: The reason I say this is cause if we're going to develop a framework from this, it's a lot of risk if not careful that can effect all of us.

There is no quick solution to this issue. It's a societal thing. People without mental illness can have poor attitudes or even be in a different state time to time or change. People can be fickle (or evil too).

I do agree with herakles at least in the regard that mental health is a piece too look at. I support developing a better system of individualized medicine. Objective tests are good starting point but enough haven't been systemized into a clinical healthcare system. The danger is issuing forth a test that over 50% of the population doesn't pass...
The beauty of the constitution is that it's a living document. The fact that amendments can be added/removed/changed is what makes it great.

Ben Carson's latest quotes on the 2nd amendment are correct. The point of the 2nd amendment is for the citizens of the US to have the ability to resist tyranny in any form.

I think we have enough guns out there to resist tyranny. Now... can we focus on our society that is currently so dysfunctional that there have been more mass shootings this year than days of the year? Let that sink in.

We have an epidemic and it must be addressed. The 2nd amendment is no longer feasible as written.

Thomas Jefferson believed that the laws of the land should only be for the living. The laws should change as generations come and go. It's time to make some changes.

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Old 10-13-2015, 01:31 PM   #65
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The beauty of the constitution is that it's a living document. The fact that amendments can be added/removed/changed is what makes it great.

Ben Carson's latest quotes on the 2nd amendment are correct. The point of the 2nd amendment is for the citizens of the US to have the ability to resist tyranny in any form.

I think we have enough guns out there to resist tyranny. Now... can we focus on our society that is currently so dysfunctional that there have been more mass shootings this year than days of the year? Let that sink in.

We have an epidemic and it must be addressed. The 2nd amendment is no longer feasible as written.

Thomas Jefferson believed that the laws of the land should only be for the living. The laws should change as generations come and go. It's time to make some changes.

Actually there are less shootings overall. Mass shootings are just the ones that snag the Headlines. The shootings that occur in majority minority cities don't effect most white Americans so the decrees in shootings overall don't really mean anything.

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Old 10-13-2015, 01:42 PM   #66
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Actually there are less shootings overall. Mass shootings are just the ones that snag the Headlines. The shootings that occur in majority minority cities don't effect most white Americans so the decrees in shootings overall don't really mean anything.
Mass shootings. As in, three or more people shot at one incident. Look it up. We've had more of those than days in this year.

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Old 10-13-2015, 05:15 PM   #67
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Default Re: The Guns thread



Columbine victim's father tells off Dr. Been Carson on his absolutist gun rights stance.

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Old 10-13-2015, 05:59 PM   #68
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Default Re: The Guns thread

What makes me laugh is gun nuts acting like they would stand any chance against US Soldiers if they came to lock everyone down and take their guns by force. It's hysterical. Even if they formed up a militia they could be taken out by drones and countless other black ops we aren't even privy to yet we can't do something to address the situation at hand because they need to fight against the government that may one day come after them. It's an insane line of reasoning

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Old 10-13-2015, 08:18 PM   #69
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Default Re: The Guns thread

Milwaukee Gun Shop Ordered to Pay $6 Million to Cops for Negligent Gun Sale



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Badger Guns, known as “the number one crime gun dealer in America” for a history of selling guns that later turn up in crime scenes, has been ordered to pay $6 million to Milwaukee police officers Bryan Norberg and Graham Kunisch for the negligent sale of a handgun that was used in a shooting that seriously injured the two officers, reports the Associated Press and FOX 6 News in Milwaukee.

Norberg and Kunisch were shot by Julius Burton in 2009 when they attempted to stop him for riding his bicycle on the sidewalk. Norberg has since returned to the force, but Kunisch’s injuries were severe enough that he was forced to retire. Burton is now serving 80 years behind bars for the shooting, and the Badger Guns lawsuit came about after the particulars of the sale that eventually transferred the handgun to Burton were revealed to be sketchy as hell.

From a FOX 6 News report:

His 18-year-old friend Julius Burton was too young to buy a gun himself, and told Burton he’d pay him $40 to get him one.

During his testimony in court on Monday, Collins indicated Burton picked out the gun he wanted purchased.

Surveillance video from inside Badger Guns shows Burton pointing to the gun he wanted, helping Collins fill out the forms, and going to the parking lot with Collins to get more money. According to the lawyer for the officers, Bryan Norberg and Graham Kunisch, these were all red flags — and Badger Guns shouldn’t have made the sale.

[...]

Despite Collins crossing out and changing answers on his gun application, he walked out of Badger Guns with a gun.


Today a Milwaukee jury agreed that the sale should not have been made and found Badger Guns liable for the consequences of that sale, ordering the store to pay Officer Norberg $1.5 million and Kunisch $3.6 million, plus another $730,000 in punitive damages.
http://gawker.com/milwaukee-gun-shop...-fo-1736361514

So all these guns have been sold from this place and used in crimes yet when a cop sue's them he gets paid. Nobody else thinks that's a bit weird?

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Old 10-13-2015, 08:49 PM   #70
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Interesting look at 2nd Amendment. It was for slavery.

http://labprolib.com/slavery-and-gun...eserve-slavery

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Old 10-14-2015, 08:57 AM   #71
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Default Re: The Guns thread

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What makes me laugh is gun nuts acting like they would stand any chance against US Soldiers if they came to lock everyone down and take their guns by force. It's hysterical. Even if they formed up a militia they could be taken out by drones and countless other black ops we aren't even privy to yet we can't do something to address the situation at hand because they need to fight against the government that may one day come after them. It's an insane line of reasoning
Well... there would be resistance. Then, you have to ask yourself, if the Government was truly being unjust in ways that would strike up a revolution, would the boots on the ground listen to their commanders and go guns blazing across America? Probably not.

And... if it's so easy to take out some hillbillies with guns, why are we still fighting the Taliban and ISIS?

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Old 10-14-2015, 09:51 AM   #72
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Well... there would be resistance. Then, you have to ask yourself, if the Government was truly being unjust in ways that would strike up a revolution, would the boots on the ground listen to their commanders and go guns blazing across America? Probably not.
You just underlined why the second amendment is obsolete.Unless some division of the US armed forces defected and helped those "militias", the resistance don't stand a chance.

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And... if it's so easy to take out some hillbillies with guns, why are we still fighting the Taliban and ISIS?
Simple answer: You're aren't fighting the ISIS directly.The current MO of providing airstrikes while assisting allies who have insufficent military might( all the forces fighting the ISIS in the ground war esssentially have a broken military) isn't enough .So far the only country which seems to be doing it right is Russia.
Had any NATO country(including USA), China or even Russia send their armies to fight the ISIS then they (the ISIS forces) would be routed in a couple of months.

Afghanistan's issues have always been a lot more complicated .Essentially it is extremely difficult to project control beyond the capital itself without the cooperation of the local warlords.Ironically , the Taliban managed to that quite well during their reign.

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Old 10-14-2015, 09:57 AM   #73
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Interesting look at 2nd Amendment. It was for slavery.

http://labprolib.com/slavery-and-gun...eserve-slavery
I have to disagree with that viewpoint. As a matter in fact, I will point out that the article is severely flawed. While the article is right that 2nd Amendment was designed to preserve the system, it had more to do with the realities of the problems facing the Federal government when the United States gained independence, not preserving slavery.

It was a time when American currency was backed by precious metal and the United States was not in a position to just print money the way our government does today. Alexander Hamilton was also trying to establish trust between the government and creditors. So as a result, unlike today where the United States can afford large deficits and take on more and more debt, the Federal government couldn't afford an adequate standing military and thus had to rely on the militias for national defense. Worrying about national security was a very legitimate concern because the United States was bordered by a hostile Britain in the north in what would eventually be Canada and a hostile Spain in the south and west in Florida and Louisiana. Add in a hostile France at sea, the Founding Fathers had every reason to be afraid when they couldn't afford a standing army. So thus, that's why we have the Second Amendment because the state militias could protect the system.

On top of completely ignoring the security issues of the United States, the article is also characterizing George Mason as a lover of slavery when he actually advocated for eventual emancipation. And the use of the word "state" in the Second Amendment and development of Bill of Rights was not only meant to appease slave states like Virginia, but also free states like New York. New York's ratification statement even stated that the Constitution needed: "That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well-regulated militia, including the body of the people capable of bearing arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free state."

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Old 10-26-2015, 02:52 PM   #74
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The fact that there are so many people who support the idea of being able to buy guns without a background check just screams of the idiocy behind the thought process.

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Old 10-26-2015, 06:00 PM   #75
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Default Re: The Guns thread

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Originally Posted by Unbreakable Lex View Post
Here's my thing.

It's easier to defend against a nut with a knife than a nut with a gun.

It's very difficult to get rid of nuts. So since nuts exist, let's make access to that easy kill device a little more difficult.

Have you ever been attacked but a guy with a knife? Not exactly easier to defend against.

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