The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > TV Series > The Defenders

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-22-2017, 01:24 PM   #51
Random490
Side-Kick
 
Random490's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,130
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NealKenneth View Post
Usually the "where was X during X" question is like a pesky fly but there have been two times that I felt it was truly valid during the MCU so far.

The first time was when the President was held hostage during Iron Man 3 and no one from SHIELD or Captain America was ever mentioned. The second time was during The Defenders when an "earthquake" occured and scientists were talking about the epicenter being a few hundred feet underground a few blocks away from Stark Tower. Just found it very unbelievable that no one from The Avengers would look into that.
I don't think it would be valid for the earthquake since the earth quake was reported as being from a fault line. The show made the effort to show the Hand was controlling the story. What the audience knows is different from what people outside of the story know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKSpawn View Post
Maybe it's better to think of it with real-world analogies. Like, the NYPD would tackle street-level crime, right? Not the army or the CIA. Sure, maybe the FBI would get involved, but it's unlikely that it would extend beyond that.

So, in the MCU, the Avengers are the army, S.H.I.E.L.D. are the CIA, and the Defenders are the police. The Avengers are busy globe-trotting and stopping global threat (alien invasions and so forth), S.H.I.E.L.D. are always one day away from crumbling apart from within these days (maybe, pre-Avengers, they would have gotten involved in the Netflix-level stuff but not now when they're always busy rounding up Inhumans or trying to not be disbanded...again), so it's up to the Defenders to take care of business in their own little corner.

It's not even that hard to believe; Spider-Man didn't run into the Avengers every single issue and the cross-over between all the many, many New York superheroes wasn't that common. They're all doing their own thing and, often, there's some overlap. Like, people moaned and *****ed about the lack of the Avengers in Iron man 3, Thor: The Dark World, and Captain America: The Winter Soldier but, when you watch those movies, it's pretty clear that the events from all three overlap with each other to explain why each character is kind of busy with their own stuff and can't just dash over to London at the drop of a hat.

While I don't necessarily like how the television stuff is never referenced in the movies, it's not that unbelievable that they're still all connected. Also, while it would be nice to see the Avengers tower, is it really that big a deal? I never found myself really looking out for it; being a Brit I just assumed that you can't see it from where they are in the series. It's not that uncommon; if I remember right, there's a scene in Spider-Man where Peter's sat on top of a building and, in the commentary, Sam Raimi talks about how they mashed together he skyline to create an impossible panoramic view for the audience. Or, how about the trains in Spider-Man 2; those aren't in new York but I don't recall anyone flipped out too hard over that.
I completely agree. Spider-man Homecoming does a great job at demonstrating the different jurisdictions (for lack of a better word) for these characters. He literally comes across people selling and using weapons made from alien technology and Iron Man does assemble the Avengers but notifies the FBI. Not every little incident catches the attention of Avengers, sometimes there are forces keeping them and others in the dark, or maybe they were busy doing something else.

During Iron Man 3 The Avengers were only a worst case scenario for SHIELD to call upon so the members were all scattered. Still we know AIM had influence with higher level officials at the government, we can also assume that maybe Hydra would want AIM to succeed not only to acquire the Extremist formula but the death of the President at the hands of a terrorist organization would only increase support for Project Insight. Banner probably though the Hulk would not be useful and Cap, Nat, and Clint could have all been on a mission. Similar for Thor 2 except the crisis only lasted so long, we know SHIELD was present for the clean up and we can guess that mobilizing takes a little wild so they could have shown up after the crisis was over. Also Tony had blown up his armor and had heart surgery which would require some recovery time.

Between Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron we Know the Avengers had officially reassembled and been going after Hydra after Age of Ultron CW indicated they were focusing on international terrorists like Crossbones. So we can assume they've been busy with either their own missions or training. Plus even heroes need vacation time. The point is it's implied they're busy and proactive. And after the Accords we can surmise that the Avengers cannot act unless it's an emergency or have the council's approval.

Now we don't know how the timeline matches up for the netflix shows, all we know for sure is that it starts sometime after the first Avengers movie. But throughout we can assume that some of it takes place before the Avengers were reassembled and doing their own things, and when they were assemble but having a busy schedule. Still neflix does a great job telling stories that wouldn't call for the Avengers to show up as most of it happens in the shadows:

In Daredevil - Gang violence and some bombings aren't big enough to require Avengers to investigate, that's a matter for the NYPD and FBI

Jessica Jones - The bulk of the show is just trying to prove a mind controller exists and highlights how difficult it is. There's probably millions of tips in this universe that gets ignored by people over reacting. Avengers would not take notice of it.

Luke Cage - Okay this is one of the few times I will say that Avengers should have been called in. When a super human is suspected of multiple murders and had assaulted officers while resisting arrest it's time to call in at least one of the Avengers (or SHIELD if it takes place before WS) to help in apprehension. The story line happens over a period of days so you couldn't quite justify that were on a mission for that long. They could have said the NYPD wanted to prove themselves effective or didn't want the Avengers to wreck the neighborhood (as Hulk had done). But they didn't indicate that so...

Iron Fist - The whole plot unfolds in the shadows, the only thing public was Danny evading police after being implication in a drug trafficking operation. No need for Avengers.

The Defenders - Earthquake did some damage but nothing earth shattering, would have been nice to hear report of Avengers helping during the quake and recovery.

The Punisher - Gang violence, matter for the FBI and Police (also CIA but that's covert and the Avengers wouldn't know about it)

Now the ABC series (AoS and Inhumans) don't do a great job about keeping it in the shadows even though both are suppose to be dealing with hidden organizations. The season 3 finale of AoS in particular was a "CALL THE AVENGERS!" kind of moment. Still they are a Non-official covert agency who don't have the authority to call in the Avengers only feed them info through back channels.

Inhumans suck.

For why the movies don't reference the shows, aside from them not being aware of everything going on, is scheduling. By the time a movie has wrapped production and entered post production a show could have just started pre-production, not to mention they are created by two entirely different departments. Trying to reference something that hasn't been created yet is pretty tough. Plus movies have much more limited screen time and you have to consider why would a character mention Luke Cage in this scene? What does saying Inhumans do for the themes of this movie. Would it go over too many people's heads? Is it worth devoting screen time to?

And also We don't know when The defenders takes place in the MCU all of their shows (even some future seasons) could have occurred before Civil War, meaning the movies can't reference stuff that not only just begun production but hasn't even thought of yet.

Personally I'm really glad most of these shows and movies are focused on building their own stories than relying solely on references and easter eggs.

Random490 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2017, 07:07 AM   #52
Wise
Watchtower Janitor
 
Wise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,936
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Tony kind of explains in Spiderman: Homecoming that the Avengers leave a wide berth and let the FBI handle the non world threatening stuff.

Sure the Hand were very dangerous in Defenders, but the Avengers weren't aware of their activities.

__________________
We've had a chai Zod... a soy chai.

HERESY!
Wise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2017, 11:03 AM   #53
Iceman
Infinity War!
 
Iceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Londinium, North of Gaul, circa XLIII AD
Posts: 103,884
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

The big time Avengers are going to have threats like Thanos, Ultron and Loki to deal with. That doesn't mean lesser villains stop doing stuff around all that.

__________________
Xbox GT: BAHAMUT ZERO X 145,527 G
X-MEN - AVENGERS - JUSTICE LEAGUE
Iceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2017, 01:22 AM   #54
TheVileOne
Side-Kick
 
TheVileOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: California
Posts: 50,315
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

The actions of the Avengers have had a trickle down effect, enabling criminals to get access to more dangerous weapons and deepen their footholds within the criminal underworld.

__________________
"This is true. This is real. This . . . Is . . . Straight Edge."

- CM Punk
TheVileOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2017, 10:55 AM   #55
ernesth100
Spidey-Hog
 
ernesth100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: The Mushroom Kingdom
Posts: 10,023
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

What I wonder is will the Avengers be aware of the Defenders at any point between IW and A4.

__________________
King of the Nerds. Official List Guy.My Youtube Please Like & Sub Thanks!: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDz...yrKVAZh9FTHC6A
Spideys Here Folks



#DesignedByTonyStark
ernesth100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2017, 05:45 PM   #56
Mike Murdock
Side-Kick
 
Mike Murdock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: The other Hell's Kitchen
Posts: 9,038
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Individually or as a team?

__________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Mike Murdock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2017, 06:38 PM   #57
Havok83
Side-Kick
 
Havok83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 41,636
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Murdock View Post
Individually or as a team?
I wouldnt really call them a team, especially at the conclusion of the mini

Havok83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2017, 07:37 AM   #58
Random490
Side-Kick
 
Random490's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,130
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
The actions of the Avengers have had a trickle down effect, enabling criminals to get access to more dangerous weapons and deepen their footholds within the criminal underworld.
I think Spider-man Homecoming has a perfect plot for Luke Cage to pick up on

Random490 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 08:47 PM   #59
Spider-Fan
SHHFFL 2014 Champion
SHH! Global Moderator
 
Spider-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In the neighborhood!
Posts: 40,941
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

The lack of Avengers popping into the Netflix shows and such doesn't really bother me. The Avengers exist for larger threats, and the Netflix stuff are smaller stories. Honestly, I think this should bother people less. Yes, Spider-Man pops up in issues of Daredevil sometimes. Keyword, SOMETIMES! Daredevil has had hundreds of issues. Spidey was in maybe 20. So no and so forth. This is why stuff like the Avengers not helping in Iron Man 3 doesn't bother me. It's an Iron Man story, not an Avengers one. Same here.

Spider-Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 09:56 PM   #60
NotNickFury
Side-Kick
 
NotNickFury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SHIELD offsite
Posts: 3,930
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Iron Man 3, sure. Though, on an unrelated note, I do find it to be somewhat of an issue in something like Winter Soldier since it's about the entire organization of SHIELD, which was at least a major institution of the MCU. I think at the very least, Clint or Tony could appear, given that Tony is name dropped a few times.

NotNickFury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 12:24 AM   #61
Zarex
Side-Kick
 
Zarex's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 5,953
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

In hindsight, Loeb should have set the Netflix street level shows in the period before Iron Man. Crossing over with the movies was always going to be a problem, even before the split between Marvel Studios and Marvel Entertainment.

But putting them in their own time period - the 70s make the most sense - would have allowed the shows to be actually part of the MCU without fans wondering why no one in the movies mentions the super powered folks roaming around NYC or why the Defenders don't bother to show up when the crap hits the fan.

Zarex is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 01:23 AM   #62
Havok83
Side-Kick
 
Havok83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 41,636
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarex View Post
In hindsight, Loeb should have set the Netflix street level shows in the period before Iron Man. Crossing over with the movies was always going to be a problem, even before the split between Marvel Studios and Marvel Entertainment.

But putting them in their own time period - the 70s make the most sense - would have allowed the shows to be actually part of the MCU without fans wondering why no one in the movies mentions the super powered folks roaming around NYC or why the Defenders don't bother to show up when the crap hits the fan.
honestly its not that big a deal and they were fine setting it in present day. I bet the vast majority of the people watching these shwos arent obsessing over why the Avengers arent included

Havok83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 07:56 AM   #63
Spider-Fan
SHHFFL 2014 Champion
SHH! Global Moderator
 
Spider-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In the neighborhood!
Posts: 40,941
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotNickFury View Post
Iron Man 3, sure. Though, on an unrelated note, I do find it to be somewhat of an issue in something like Winter Soldier since it's about the entire organization of SHIELD, which was at least a major institution of the MCU. I think at the very least, Clint or Tony could appear, given that Tony is name dropped a few times.
Getting cameos is cool, but at the end of the day TWS was a Captain America story. Not an Avengers one. It's the simplest reason why everyone is not there, and it doesn't bother me. Happens in comics all the time.

Spider-Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 12:44 PM   #64
NotNickFury
Side-Kick
 
NotNickFury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SHIELD offsite
Posts: 3,930
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

But it's a bit more than a singular character story, at least I feel. Yes, Steve is the protagonist and everyone else's arc serves him as that main character, but it's about the entire organization of SHIELD. If this was about Captain America fighting some one-off supervillain and it's his story, I get that, but it's not that isolated. The Russos made a huge change to the entire MCU by taking down SHIELD.

In this case, they're having their cake and eating it too in saying this is Cap's story. We can suspend our disbelief on wondering where others are- though in a situation like this, Stark or Barton would make sense given their history with SHIELD- but the issue with Winter Soldier becomes even more glaring when you take Civil War into account- the third installment OF Cap's story- and have almost every major player of the MCU and make reference to missing players like Hulk and Thor.

NotNickFury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2017, 08:47 AM   #65
Spider-Fan
SHHFFL 2014 Champion
SHH! Global Moderator
 
Spider-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In the neighborhood!
Posts: 40,941
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotNickFury View Post
But it's a bit more than a singular character story, at least I feel. Yes, Steve is the protagonist and everyone else's arc serves him as that main character, but it's about the entire organization of SHIELD. If this was about Captain America fighting some one-off supervillain and it's his story, I get that, but it's not that isolated. The Russos made a huge change to the entire MCU by taking down SHIELD.

In this case, they're having their cake and eating it too in saying this is Cap's story. We can suspend our disbelief on wondering where others are- though in a situation like this, Stark or Barton would make sense given their history with SHIELD- but the issue with Winter Soldier becomes even more glaring when you take Civil War into account- the third installment OF Cap's story- and have almost every major player of the MCU and make reference to missing players like Hulk and Thor.
In Iron Man 3, Tony is believed DEAD and the President is kidnapped. Still, no Avengers getting involved. Seems odd, right? But, that doesn't bother me because it was an Iron Man movie and I get that not everyone is going to be in it. With Defenders, a fair amount of what they were fighting was stuff not really in the open or that would get the Avengers' attention up until the when the climax is actively happening. The fact no one shows up really doesn't bother me, that and if the Avengers DID show up, the Hand would have been beat in 5 minutes. If they did 7 epidoes of build up only to end it with Hulk smashing Elektra like he did Loki, people would have been mad.

Just because you technically CAN include cameos and characters into stuff doesn't mean that you always SHOULD. Further, if we get bogged down by needing to explain where the Avengers or where someone else is every 5 seconds, then we don't have a show and we're focusing on the wrong thing, which should be the characters actively involved, their arcs, their storylines, and where you're taking the audience.

Spider-Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2017, 10:26 AM   #66
NotNickFury
Side-Kick
 
NotNickFury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SHIELD offsite
Posts: 3,930
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

That's not really my point. I'm not talking about singular character stories- I'm talking about a story that's built around the entire SHIELD organization that's been a focal point of this universe since Iron Man. Arguably a much bigger deal than Stark going off the grid.

NotNickFury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2017, 11:34 AM   #67
Spider-Fan
SHHFFL 2014 Champion
SHH! Global Moderator
 
Spider-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In the neighborhood!
Posts: 40,941
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotNickFury View Post
That's not really my point. I'm not talking about singular character stories- I'm talking about a story that's built around the entire SHIELD organization that's been a focal point of this universe since Iron Man. Arguably a much bigger deal than Stark going off the grid.
In regard to TWS, the entire operation was taking place in the shadows in a limited time window, and Cap was on the run. Surely a guy like Stark would have been being watched, also. Plus, to get Stark, he would have to go from DC to Washington and back in a short period of time. Simply, even within the story confines, there was no time to get Stark involved and within the story itself, no one but Cap knew what was happening (as far as Avengers go). Therefore, it made sense no one got involved.


Last edited by Spider-Fan; 12-07-2017 at 11:40 AM.
Spider-Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.