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Old 02-05-2017, 04:59 AM   #101
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

While I totally agree Cameron has done a superb job I think talks about him being the show's "strongest development" is hyperbole. It's an unfair comparison because he's yet to be in more than a couple of episodes but he's nowhere close to the complexity and nuance of Edward, Oswald or especially Bruce. If you want character development on par with or greater than Bruce Wayne @ Gotham, you have to look to Black Sails and John Silver.

Jerome plays the cartoon villain, but he does so with immense bravado.

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Old 02-05-2017, 09:21 AM   #102
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

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I disagree wholly and think Jerome is greatly developed, even more so than other characters that have appeared in more episodes. So I'd definitely disagree that Barbara has more/better development. A lot of the times the actress comes across as trying too hard & despite having a larger role, has left a rather small impact compared to Jerome, who is a certified show stealer.

There's a great deal of development with Jerome and each time he's appeared he's evolved and Cameron's done a superb job of hitting new beats with every outing. So I definitely can't agree that he's underdeveloped in any way.
No one said he's underdeveloped or isn't greatly developed- just that he's nowhere near as developed as other characters who have appeared more. You disagree with the comparison to Barbara, okay fine, but that still leaves out Nygma, Oswald, Bruce, Jim, many other characters who have had more screen time and opportunity to grow compared to Jerome.

Being a show-stealer doesn't equate to character growth, that's just presence.

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Old 02-05-2017, 10:33 AM   #103
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

I think my main problem was the contention that "nobody would argue Cameron isn't the show's strongest development." I'd say only the most fanatic Jerome-stans would argue that he is, and they aren't the majority of the viewers.

No offense. I remind you that I love the actor and I love the role, but there's a certain level of disdain from the Jerome fanatics towards the other people on the show that sometimes comes across as rather insulting. That said... I wouldn't watch Gotham without Bruce Wayne. I'd cry tears of blood if they wrote out Selina, but I'd keep watching.

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Old 02-05-2017, 02:18 PM   #104
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

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No one said he's underdeveloped or isn't greatly developed- just that he's nowhere near as developed as other characters who have appeared more. You disagree with the comparison to Barbara, okay fine, but that still leaves out Nygma, Oswald, Bruce, Jim, many other characters who have had more screen time and opportunity to grow compared to Jerome.

Being a show-stealer doesn't equate to character growth, that's just presence.
That's an obvious sentiment, though. How would he be as developed as Bruce, Nygma, Jim, etc. when he's on the show significantly less?

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Old 02-05-2017, 03:26 PM   #105
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

You tell me. You did say he's the show's strongest development and more so than characters who have appeared in more episodes.

So how indeed would he be as developed as other characters?

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Old 02-05-2017, 04:03 PM   #106
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

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I disagree wholly and think Jerome is greatly developed, even more so than other characters that have appeared in more episodes. So I'd definitely disagree that Barbara has more/better development. A lot of the times the actress comes across as trying too hard & despite having a larger role, has left a rather small impact compared to Jerome, who is a certified show stealer.

There's a great deal of development with Jerome and each time he's appeared he's evolved and Cameron's done a superb job of hitting new beats with every outing. So I definitely can't agree that he's underdeveloped in any way.
Liking a character more and being a more developed character are two different things. Barbara is a much more developed character, like her or not. Originally she was a clingy, needy damsel in distress. Then she evolved into a deliciously crazy lunatic. And now she has become and evil and powerful criminal mastermind. She has had by far the most development of any character on the show. Only Nygma has had comparable development. And to a lesser extent Bruce. Gordon, Oswald, Alfred, Harvey, and Selina are basically the same character now that there were in episode 1. And Jerome, no matter how popular or scene stealing, is still the crazy kid that killed him mother in the first appearance. I don't see any change in his personality from that of his initial appearance.

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Old 02-05-2017, 04:43 PM   #107
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

No, I disagree on some of them being the same, but Bullock in particular. He was corrupt and all for wanting to kill Gordon just to keep Falcone off his back, then around the time of "Spirit of the Goat" when we got his backstory, we saw a different side to him and he slowly started to work with Jim, especially when the rest of the squad told Zsasz where he was in. And now he's the acting captain, when in the pilot, he probably didn't care about upholding the law since he wanted Jim to kill Oswald.

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Old 02-05-2017, 08:51 PM   #108
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

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You tell me. You did say he's the show's strongest development and more so than characters who have appeared in more episodes.

So how indeed would he be as developed as other characters?
He's developed because he has his own quirks, he has a backstory that was the focus of an episode, and we've seen his evolution in each arc. You can't have evolution in a character if there's no development there. He is one of the strongest characters Gotham has produced.

If he was one-note or poorly developed, I'd have to imagine it'd have been hard for him to have made the impact he's made thus far.

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Old 02-05-2017, 09:45 PM   #109
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

So now he's not the show's strongest development, but just one of the strongest.

Which is it?

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Old 03-13-2017, 09:38 AM   #110
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

I go back and forth with Cameron's performance as Jermone. Sometimes I think he's really good, other times I think he's trying too hard.

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Old 03-28-2017, 11:26 AM   #111
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker


Jerome Joker.

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Old 03-28-2017, 02:27 PM   #112
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

Noice, Indy.

There's a lot of good fan artwork out there with Jerome plus make-up.

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Old 03-30-2017, 09:20 AM   #113
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

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Noice, Indy.

There's a lot of good fan artwork out there with Jerome plus make-up.
Thanks.

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Old 04-05-2017, 08:29 AM   #114
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker


Jerome Joker Wallpaper.

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Old 11-20-2017, 12:35 AM   #115
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

He returns

https://twitter.com/GothamHub/status/931674757136654336

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Old 11-20-2017, 07:57 AM   #116
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

Oh hey dude, it's been quite a while since you posted.

Yeah, posted that in the main thread yesterday.

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Old 11-21-2017, 07:05 AM   #117
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

Yeah, saw Cameron tweeting about being excited to show fans what they've been working on and needless to say, my interest level has been piqued to maximum levels.

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Old 11-21-2017, 08:51 AM   #118
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

There's also an article (with the same producer who stated Jerome ain't the Joker and that it's an exciting thing because of it, ugh) who said Jerome's appearance might have ripples that lead into season 5. If we actually get one, that is.

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Old 11-21-2017, 09:11 PM   #119
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

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There's also an article (with the same producer who stated Jerome ain't the Joker and that it's an exciting thing because of it, ugh) who said Jerome's appearance might have ripples that lead into season 5. If we actually get one, that is.
Hopefully, S5 does happen!

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Old 11-22-2017, 08:07 PM   #120
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bbz_0qCH2gQ/

I love these two so much.

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Old 11-23-2017, 06:10 AM   #121
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

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There's also an article (with the same producer who stated Jerome ain't the Joker and that it's an exciting thing because of it, ugh) who said Jerome's appearance might have ripples that lead into season 5. If we actually get one, that is.
That is incredibly disappointing to know...why pull so much from the lore only to go ahead and say "oh, he's not actually the Joker, guys. Sorry about that"?

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Old 11-23-2017, 09:23 AM   #122
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

Here's the link to it, in case you guys haven't read it:

http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/10/06/g...lers-season-4/

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Old 11-23-2017, 02:45 PM   #123
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

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That is incredibly disappointing to know...why pull so much from the lore only to go ahead and say "oh, he's not actually the Joker, guys. Sorry about that"?
Because Joker is one of the few villains created by Batman and with no Batman yet there should be no Joker either. It would be like Dr. Harleen Quinzel turning into Harley Quinn before the Joker showed up.

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Old 11-23-2017, 03:07 PM   #124
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

You do realize Penguin, Riddler, Freeze, along many others have been established within the show before Bruce even becomes Batman, right? So your point is completely rendered moot, especially since Gotham is pretty much its own Elseworlds story and doesn't have to adhere so closely to canon.

Why would it be so far-fetched for the Joker to fit the bill as well? Or is this just because you hope they don't go that route with the character?

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Old 11-23-2017, 07:57 PM   #125
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Default Re: The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

None of them required Batman to come first. Penguin even in the comic books had been around for quite a while before Batman showed up. About the only one inspired by Batman was Catwoman.

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