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Old 03-23-2013, 10:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Originally Posted by milost View Post
No, you're twisting it Anno. I'm sure even Batlobster can attest to this.

Bane cares for Talia, plain and simple. Never stated otherwise. In fact, I claimed that's all he cared about.

You're bringing in things like, "he cared about children and others innocence" when he CLEARLY doesn't. He only cared about Talia.

Those throw away lines you keep mentioning, that Phantasm and I jumped on, are throw away lines that have nothing to do with his characterization. "What a lovely, lovely voice" was a quirky line, much like "let the games begin". For all we know, that kid was killed in the blast when it blew. The cuts and kick off are so fast, and the line isn't even in the script, thus not essential to the characterization of Bane. He was waiting for the kid to leave? Really? Maybe they added that so folks weren't thinking, "OH MAN, THE MOVIE JUST KILLED A KID". But that's just as much reaching as, "Bane cares about kids". It has nothing to do with "innocent children". Then his threat against Pavel, "for the sake of your children"? Are you serious? He's threatening Pavel's FAMILY if everything doesn't go as planned with the nuclear device. Meaning, he will KILL his children if anything goes wrong. That doesn't sound like someone who cares about innocence to me.

Seriously, if that isn't reaching, I don't know what is. I mean you really think Bane cares about Pavel's kids if he's threatening them? Better yet, why would he destroy a city that houses innocent children? Or are you going to tell me that he knew that the little orphans were trying to cross the bridge during his fight with Batman too?

Bane cares about Talia, plain and simple. If he really believed innocence and the good of children, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing to Gotham, a city that houses innocent children and orphans. At the very least, he'd be conflicted about it. What you're saying, other than Talia, is complete nonsense and seeing something that's not there. I don't think that's too harsh. Sure everyone has a different POV and perception when it comes to films, but I think those two reasons you listed about the kids is baloney. Let's remember, he's going to blow all of them to hell and back. If that's the case, there is no "innocence is redemption".

Now the idea itself, it's a great idea, it would be fantastic if it was included, but it's not. It's not there. He doesn't care about innocence, like the voice over sequence telling his backstory suggests (other than Talia's), and he doesn't care about the plight of the children. He only cares about Talia, and Talia alone.

This is what we know about Bane without conjecture from TDKR,

- He was born in the prison pit (if he's telling the truth)

- He's a man when Talia and her mother is brought down

- When Talia's mother is killed, he protects her

- He helps her escape the pit

- She comes back with Ra's and the League of Shadows who comes back to exact terrible vengeance

- He and Talia are taken in and train with Ra's

- Ra's excommunicates Bane because Bane reminds him of the pit (hmmm, I wonder why) and his love for Talia

- Talia can't forgive her father and despises him and leaves the league along with Bane


- Talia finds out that her father, whom she dislikes, is killed. She wants revenge

- Bane comes along with her, wants to FULFILL RA'S AL GHULS DESTINY!

- Involved in an elaborate, convoluted plot to not just destroy Gotham outright, but give it's citizens and Batman a false hope for 5 long months . . .

That's pretty much Bane. He's not religious, he's not honorable, he doesn't care for the plight of the children other than Talia, and he wants to destroy the city, a city that had no involvement with his pain or suffering, to burn to ashes in a horrible nuclear holocaust that will claim the lives of not just innocent men and women, but innocent children as well. Doesn't sound like the original creation of Bane to me, and certainly doesn't sound better.

Little Osito, self-made man > Talia and DA LEAGUE, any day of the week

Nothing to sympathize with TDKR Bane as far as I'm considered. For all we know, Bane's love for Talia, a grown man raised in the confines of a terrible prison, is a SICK love. Perhaps that's why Ra's threw him out. Talia clearly had "daddy issues". Think about it, Talia would be easily impressionable, Bane would be her first parental figure after her mother dies when she's young. They're both clearly twisted and psychotic. They dislike Ra's, but want to fulfill his destiny? They want to honor him? Insane.

Then again, all of this information is literally TOLD to us, in crazy short exposition spurts, and in A TWIST. So who the hell knows.

I don't see how anyone could possibly care for Bane or Talia, I simply don't. Bane would be much stronger as a character if Talia and the League Of Shadows weren't involved and he was his own, self made man, who had risen from the darkness, with convictions, true ideals and a sense of honor. Not a man who was crazy about a little girl, who was ex-communicated for being a MONSTER that LOVED the leader's daughter, and did anything for that little girl including, BLOWING A CITY AWAY IN NUCLEAR FIRE.

At the very least it would have been compelling for Bane to have conflict with Talia and the League of Shadows about destroying innocent lives. If he believes in innocence and redemption, why would then would he be so gung ho with their way of life?

Oh, that's right, because of Talia . . . .
I will always view those two lines from Bane to be about his views on the innocence of children. If not, then the "lovely, lovely voice" statement as well the "For the sake of your children, Dr. Pavel" lines aren't even necessary and make too much sense because of how Bane cared for a young Talia to not connect the dots. You don't, then marvelous, but I certainly do. I've thought that way since the first time I saw TDKR.

- Talia can't forgive her father and despises him and leaves the league along with Bane
Leaves along with Bane? Like, together? Because that's not fact. We know nothing of when Talia leaves the League. It could be right after Bane is ex-communicated, or it could have been days/weeks/months/et cetera.

- Bane comes along with her, wants to FULFILL RA'S AL GHULS DESTINY!
Bane doesn't come along with her. Bane is as much of the plan as Talia is. Talia hated her father to a point and seemingly, so did Bane, but they both were saved in a way by Ra's al Ghul. This was them still honoring the man. And during my discussions with Shikamaru, those men may not have even been LoS and instead Bane's men/mercenaries. Bane had the army, and Talia needed an army = Bane didn't just "come along"(if you go by that theory, and it's quite interesting).

Last edited by Anno_Domini; 03-23-2013 at 10:18 PM.
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