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Old 05-10-2010, 08:37 PM   #2701
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Default Re: Scarlett Johansson is the Black Widow

Well we already have ScarJo. You don't need to try to make her sexy, she already is. So just tell an awesome espionage tale with her and there you go.

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Old 05-10-2010, 09:25 PM   #2702
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Default Re: Scarlett Johansson is the Black Widow

Scarlett was born to be Natasha / Black Widow . She looked the part, she acted the part and kicked mega ass in that skin tight outfit Hammer's guards didn't stand a chance .


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Old 05-10-2010, 09:47 PM   #2703
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Default Re: Scarlett Johansson is the Black Widow

Lol, I loved Black Widow!

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Old 05-10-2010, 09:57 PM   #2704
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Default Re: Scarlett Johansson is the Black Widow

She was kind of a non-character in IM2. All she really did, aside from a single fight scene near the end, was stand around and observe what was going on without really being apart of it. She didn't have much of an arc in the story, and to me at least came off as one-note and monotone. I don't think she's a strong enough character at this point to have her own solo project.

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Old 05-11-2010, 12:24 AM   #2705
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Default Re: Scarlett Johansson is the Black Widow

Scar Jo as Black Widow was rubbish. She was introduced in IM2 playing the new assistant. She walks into the room to get signatures from Pepper and Tony. Basically her character’s job in the movie was to get signatures.

During the last 10 minutes of the movie she changes her clothes in the car. Then takes down a few guards and helps reprogram Rhodey’s War Machine suit. Do audiences want a Scar Jo Black Widow movie?


HELL NO!!!

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Old 05-11-2010, 12:55 AM   #2706
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Default Re: Scarlett Johansson is the Black Widow

I'd see a Black Widow movie. Her character was INTRODUCED in an IRON MAN film. I dont know why people are whining about her screen time...how much did you THINK she was going to have?

I wouldnt mind a solo movie AND if she was a part of the Avengers.

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Old 05-11-2010, 01:09 AM   #2707
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Default Re: Scarlett Johansson is the Black Widow

You can't do it based off this movie alone. It would be Elektra. You need to build the character in the other movies first and see if the demand is there.

Remember Elektra was a lower budget movie. Still bombed.

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Old 05-11-2010, 11:22 AM   #2708
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I like how people are still using the excuse that Scarlett didn't bother with an accent because she is a spy that is undercover.

When are any of you going to explain why she is even undercover as an American instead of just being her sexy Russian self? What part of getting close to Tony Stark and trying to seduce him means she has to pretend to be American? And don't say that Tony would have figured that she was apart of SHIELD because that would be absolutely ridiculous. If he was going to jump to any conclussion it would have been that she was working with Ivan after being attacked in Morocco

And so far the only evidence that supporters of Americanizing Black Widow have been able to provide is one single comic book panel that looks like it is from the 1960s/1970s...an era when being Russian meant you were automatically a communist so hiding yourself was an absolute necessity. And even still the panel shows that guy saying that Natasha "ALMOST" has no accent so even when she tries to hide it the guy was able to pick up the different dialect.

Does anyone have anything more recent, like the the seven different actual audio sources such as cartoon tv shows, animated movies, and videogames that have been released since 2004 where Marvel, Lionsgate, and Activision all work under the idea that Natasha does in fact keep her natural accent when she is being herself around people that know her true identity.

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Old 05-11-2010, 11:31 AM   #2709
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...anyway...

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Old 05-11-2010, 11:40 AM   #2710
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Default Re: Scarlett Johansson is the Black Widow

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Originally Posted by HailtotheKing View Post
I like how people are still using the excuse that Scarlett didn't bother with an accent because she is a spy that is undercover.

When are any of you going to explain why she is even undercover as an American instead of just being her sexy Russian self?

What part of getting close to Tony Stark and trying to seduce him means she has to pretend to be American? And don't say that Tony would have figured that she was apart of SHIELD because that would be absolutely ridiculous. If he was going to jump to any conclussion it would have been that she was working with Ivan after being attacked in Morocco
And so far the only evidence that supporters of Americanizing Black Widow have been able to provide is one single comic book panel that looks like it is from the 1960s/1970s...an era when being Russian meant you were automatically a communist so hiding yourself was an absolute necessity. And even still the panel shows that guy saying that Natasha "ALMOST" has no accent so even when she tries to hide it the guy was able to pick up the different dialect.

Does anyone have anything more recent, like the the seven different actual audio sources such as cartoon tv shows, animated movies, and videogames that have been released since 2004 where Marvel, Lionsgate, and Activision all work under the idea that Natasha does in fact keep her natural accent when she is being herself around people that know her true identity.
you answered your own question

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Old 05-11-2010, 12:20 PM   #2711
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Default Re: Scarlett Johansson is the Black Widow

So some people are still ignoring that even in the comics, BW's natural accent is pretty much non-existent?

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Old 05-11-2010, 12:27 PM   #2712
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So some people are still ignoring that even in the comics, BW's natural accent is pretty much non-existent?
Yep. Some people like to bring up the same argument for months.

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Old 05-11-2010, 12:27 PM   #2713
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Default Re: Scarlett Johansson is the Black Widow

IM2 redone with russian accent on BW

BW:"I am how you say..notary."
IM:"Um...where are you from...miss?"
BW:"I am Natalie Rushman from...New Jersey."
IM:"Wow cause you sound russian...Ms Rushman."
BW:"Nyet..um No. I am 100 percent amerikan gyrl."
IM:"I bet"

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Old 05-11-2010, 12:37 PM   #2714
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Default Re: Scarlett Johansson is the Black Widow

We already had one Boris and Natasha-sounding ****er in the movie, didn't need two.

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Old 05-11-2010, 12:41 PM   #2715
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We already had one Boris and Natasha-sounding ****er in the movie, didn't need two.
Exactly. Giving BW a Russian accent might give her more of a backstory but it is a backstory that would never get told bc it wasn't her film. The average audience member would associate BW with Whiplash. It is much easier to explain her expertise of languages in a later film then to have her Russian without any explanation.

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Old 05-11-2010, 01:09 PM   #2716
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you answered your own question
Did you even see the movie? SHIELD doesn't have any idea that Ivan is going to attack Stark. So sending Natasha in as her own self would have been a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Only after Ivan attacks Stark would their plan have been derailed.

Nice effort though.

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So some people are still ignoring that even in the comics, BW's natural accent is pretty much non-existent?
So some people are still ignoring that even Marvel has BW keep an accent everytime she is actually voiced by a profession actress or voice over talent. Oh and please, by all means post the proof that says Black Widow doesn't have an accent in the comics...I mean other than that one single panel that you guys always go to as proof that clearly shows that the guy talking to Natasha still picked up on her true Russian dialect.

Good job saying "pretty much" by the way. Excellent way to basically saying she doesn't have one but really she kind of does.

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Yep. Some people like to bring up the same argument for months.
Yep, and some people refuse to understand that Marvel themselves have already established what Natasha actually sounds like when she speaks. I mean go figure.

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IM2 redone with russian accent on BW

BW:"I am how you say..notary."
IM:"Um...where are you from...miss?"
BW:"I am Natalie Rushman from...New Jersey."
IM:"Wow cause you sound russian...Ms Rushman."
BW:"Nyet..um No. I am 100 percent amerikan gyrl."
IM:"I bet"
Wow...that was about the most retarded thing I've ever read. Why exactly would she go into Stark Industries still pretending to be Natalie Rushman from America if they had kept the fact that she was Russian? Natalia Romanova or even the name Yelena Belova could have been used.

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We already had one Boris and Natasha-sounding ****er in the movie, didn't need two.
Which is exactly why you don't hire someone that can't play the part (ie Scarlett). But it is Hollywood tradition to hire Americans to play every single race and nationality just because they are too damn lazy to actually find an actor outside of Hollywood.

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Exactly. Giving BW a Russian accent might give her more of a backstory but it is a backstory that would never get told bc it wasn't her film. The average audience member would associate BW with Whiplash. It is much easier to explain her expertise of languages in a later film then to have her Russian without any explanation.
It wouldn't have just given her more of a backstory. It would have made her true to the actual character and it would have given her a larger part in the movie.

Having people think that Natasha and Ivan are working together would have been a great misdirection. Have two different Russian characters, one introduced after the other swears vengence against Stark, and you've got everyone in the theater that doesn't follow the comics thinking that Natasha is there to kill Tony. She could have even had a fight scene with Tony had they gone this direction because after being attacked by Ivan, Tony could have comfronted Natasha causing a fight to take place and for her to escape...only to come back at the donut shop scene and be reintroduced by Fury as an agent of SHIELD.

And what was that part about "her being Russian without any explanation"? Could Fury not have just mentioned that she was an ex KGB spy during the same donut shop scene? That is pretty much the extent of her background is explored in the Ultimates.

How hard is that? I'm not even a professional screenwriter and I just came up with something 50 times better than what Justin Theroux wrote.

Anyone else want to keep trying to sugar coat Theroux's lack of writing skills and Scarlett's inability to play anything other than an American? Cause if that was all you guys could come up with then no wonder you'll gladly be spoon fed anything put in front of you.

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Old 05-11-2010, 01:20 PM   #2717
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Whatever dude, I hope one day you get to write a script since your 50 times better then Theroux.

Blame the script if you want but it had nothing to do with Scarlett so get off it already.

She didn't have an accent, the end. You have yet to prove why she should when there are far more convincing argument why she shouldn't.

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Old 05-11-2010, 01:23 PM   #2718
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Did you even see the movie? SHIELD doesn't have any idea that Ivan is going to attack Stark. So sending Natasha in as her own self would have been a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Only after Ivan attacks Stark would their plan have been derailed.
Seen the movie twice. Tony just got attacked by a russian...putting a russian close to him would have made him suspicious

Nice effort though.



So some people are still ignoring that even Marvel has BW keep an accent everytime she is actually voiced by a profession actress or voice over talent. Oh and please, by all means post the proof that says Black Widow doesn't have an accent in the comics...I mean other than that one single panel that you guys always go to as proof that clearly shows that the guy talking to Natasha still picked up on her true Russian dialect.

so because they did it in a cartoon they should do it here????

Good job saying "pretty much" by the way. Excellent way to basically saying she doesn't have one but really she kind of does.



Yep, and some people refuse to understand that Marvel themselves have already established what Natasha actually sounds like when she speaks. I mean go figure.
Marvelk has no control over the cartoons...they have all sorts of control over the ovies...what does that tell you


Wow...that was about the most retarded thing I've ever read. Why exactly would she go into Stark Industries still pretending to be Natalie Rushman from America if they had kept the fact that she was Russian? Natalia Romanova or even the name Yelena Belova could have been used.
I was trying to be funny but you seemed to be dead set to hate everything about BW you missed it


Which is exactly why you don't hire someone that can't play the part (ie Scarlett). But it is Hollywood tradition to hire Americans to play every single race and nationality just because they are too damn lazy to actually find an actor outside of Hollywood.



It wouldn't have just given her more of a backstory. It would have made her true to the actual character and it would have given her a larger part in the movie.

Having people think that Natasha and Ivan are working together would have been a great misdirection. Have two different Russian characters, one introduced after the other swears vengence against Stark, and you've got everyone in the theater that doesn't follow the comics thinking that Natasha is there to kill Tony. She could have even had a fight scene with Tony had they gone this direction because after being attacked by Ivan, Tony could have comfronted Natasha causing a fight to take place and for her to escape...only to come back at the donut shop scene and be reintroduced by Fury as an agent of SHIELD.
How long is Tony going to last against BW??? or how long is BW going to last against Iron man..seems like a lopsided fight
And what was that part about "her being Russian without any explanation"? Could Fury not have just mentioned that she was an ex KGB spy during the same donut shop scene? That is pretty much the extent of her background is explored in the Ultimates.
and what would that happen...you dont introduce someone on their past you introduce them on their present. Spies dont give you their whole backstory...they give you just enough

How hard is that? I'm not even a professional screenwriter and I just came up with something 50 times better than what Justin Theroux wrote.
In your mind
Anyone else want to keep trying to sugar coat Theroux's lack of writing skills and Scarlett's inability to play anything other than an American? Cause if that was all you guys could come up with then no wonder you'll gladly be spoon fed anything put in front of you.
How are we wanting everything spoon fed when I can look at the character and assume its the BW from the comics just masking her accent...when you want her whole history laided bare including a russian accent...seems you want to be spoon fed

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Old 05-11-2010, 01:59 PM   #2719
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Whatever dude, I hope one day you get to write a script since your 50 times better then Theroux.

Blame the script if you want but it had nothing to do with Scarlett so get off it already.

She didn't have an accent, the end. You have yet to prove why she should when there are far more convincing argument why she shouldn't.
Then name them because so far all you've done is say "Russians are bad" and "She is such a good spy that she can speak English perfectly".

Neither of which are valid reasons for the character being introduced and kept as an American agent of SHIELD in the movie.

The day that you come up with something that actually makes sense or is even boarderline logical, I'll listen to what you have to say. Cause so far I'll I'm hearing from you is "Boris and Natasha this" and Boris and Natasha that".



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Seen the movie twice. Tony just got attacked by a russian...putting a russian close to him would have made him suspicious
And you still don't remember how the movie played out?

I'll refresh your memory.

Ivan is introduced at the very beginning of the film and is told by his dying father than the Stark family had wrong them and put them in their situation. Setting up an obvious revenge plot. At this point he has not made a single threat against Tony's live and as far as SHIELD is concerned he doesn't even exsist.

Then Tony is shown getting a new personal assistant. This is where Black Widow comes in and for some reason she is undercover as an American. Having her sent in as a sexy Russian woman would not have been a bad judgement call on SHIELD's part because they were not aware of the immediate threat against Tony.

Only after all of that is Tony Stark attacked by the Russian villian.

Pay attention next time.

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so because they did it in a cartoon they should do it here????
Yes, having a standard set in three videogames, a cartoon show that went into production the same time as the movie, and two different animated movies it would seem rational that people would have come to terms that Marvel thinks she has an accent instead of coming up with their own lame reasons to defend Scarlett and Theroux.

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Marvelk has no control over the cartoons...they have all sorts of control over the ovies...what does that tell you
And you know for a fact that Marvel has more control in the movies rights that they sell to large corporations than the much smaller media formats such as tv shows, direct to dvd animated movies and videogames?

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I was trying to be funny but you seemed to be dead set to hate everything about BW you missed it
Try harder next time cause instead of being funny you just sounded stupid.

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How long is Tony going to last against BW??? or how long is BW going to last against Iron man..seems like a lopsided fight
And why would Black Widow even harm Tony if Tony thought she betrayed him and tried to fight her. She would have defended herself, incompasitated him with doing any serious bodily harm and left. Her mission is just to monitor Tony's personality, not to eliminate him if things go south.

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and what would that happen...you dont introduce someone on their past you introduce them on their present. Spies dont give you their whole backstory...they give you just enough
And saying she was ex KGB would have been enough. You making it sound like Fury saying "Tony I'd like you to introduce you to Nastaha Romanoff, ex KGB agent, and currently SHIELD's number one spy" would have taken 10 minutes of exposition or something.

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In your mind
And in your mind, erasing a characters entire history and appeal is ok just as long as she is a hot piece of ass in a skin tight outfit.

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How are we wanting everything spoon fed when I can look at the character and assume its the BW from the comics just masking her accent...when you want her whole history laided bare including a russian accent...seems you want to be spoon fed
Because if they had given the character short brown hair or long blonde hair you wouldn't have even been able to tell the different between Scarlett's Black Widow or SHIELD agents Maria Hill and Sharon Carter.

Nothing about Scarlett "screamed" Black Widow except for the red hair.

And if you think that I've been asking for the movie to have dedicated 30 minutes directly to the Black Widow to go over her entire history then not only are you terrible at paying attention to movies like you proved above but you obviously aren't able to pay attention to what I've been saying this entire time.

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Old 05-11-2010, 02:11 PM   #2720
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sigh, not even worth it... I have given multiple explanations, you have yet to give one valid one. And, for the record, I mentioned Boris and Natasha once. Anyway, over it... no point.

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Old 05-11-2010, 02:24 PM   #2721
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In regards to the accent argument, personally I think it also has to do with Scarlett probably having trouble holding an accent since I don't think she's that great of an actress.

Don't get me wrong, I liked that Black Widow was in the film(i'm one of the ones that didn't find the film to be bloated or confused as some put it)but I just couldn't take Scarlett seriously. I think she did alright but honestly I think I would have preferred a new actress in the role, accent or not.

There was one scene that made me roll my eyes. It was when she slammed Hammer down at the end and asked him that question. I think it was "where is he", in regards to Vanko. The second time she repeats it with more authority I just chuckled because it didn't come off all that tough but more like she was trying too hard to act tough.

It's all about Gwyneth Paltrow in this film. She was great to watch primarily because she was a female character in a comic film(let alone a lot of films)that was written with respect and little to no cliches. She was confident and in charge, she wasn't the other two types of females you get in action films. Either the damsel in distress or the woman trying to be a badass. I get that the character Black Widow does in fact kick some ass but I guess it all came down to Scarlett as the reason why I didn't like the character as much as I should have.

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Old 05-11-2010, 02:32 PM   #2722
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Did you even see the movie? SHIELD doesn't have any idea that Ivan is going to attack Stark. So sending Natasha in as her own self would have been a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Only after Ivan attacks Stark would their plan have been derailed.
While they had no idea he would attack Tony it's plenty clear they kept tabs on Ivan and his father over the years as much as they could.

I got the impression that Natasha wasn't a new face at Stark Industries. When Tony asked Pepper who she was Pepper said she she was from legal and that she was a viable candidate to replace her as Tony's personal assistant since Pepper was promoted to CEO.

Quote:
So some people are still ignoring that even Marvel has BW keep an accent everytime she is actually voiced by a profession actress or voice over talent. Oh and please, by all means post the proof that says Black Widow doesn't have an accent in the comics...I mean other than that one single panel that you guys always go to as proof that clearly shows that the guy talking to Natasha still picked up on her true Russian dialect.
I'm trying to understand why her having a Russian accent is all that important AT THIS TIME. If this were an Avengers film, I could totally understand why but this is her introdution into the fray so we don't need all that at this time. There was a bigger story to tell and she's just one smaller part of it.


Quote:
Which is exactly why you don't hire someone that can't play the part (ie Scarlett). But it is Hollywood tradition to hire Americans to play every single race and nationality just because they are too damn lazy to actually find an actor outside of Hollywood.
So in other words they should hire some no name Russian chick who can't act worth anything but it's cool because she has a Russian accent and she's pretty? They look for a viable candidates who can play the part all around and since THIS FILM didn't require she have a Russian accent. She's working undercover at an American company and I remember them addressing just how many different languages she speakes.


So now you have limited choices: either let the fact that she's Russian fall to the background(especally if a large chunk of the film doesn't hinge upon that fact) or hire someone who is Russian but can't act and they drag down the movie or have the actress picked slap on a phony accent that sounds phony. I'd have to go with the first choice since it's the easiest and still effective.

Now I'm no director or screenwriter and I don't pretend to be or think I can do better like some, but that seems like the most logical approach.

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Old 05-11-2010, 03:42 PM   #2723
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So some people are still ignoring that even Marvel has BW keep an accent everytime she is actually voiced by a profession actress or voice over talent. Oh and please, by all means post the proof that says Black Widow doesn't have an accent in the comics...I mean other than that one single panel that you guys always go to as proof that clearly shows that the guy talking to Natasha still picked up on her true Russian dialect.
Why would I bother looking for more proof when you're already dismissing the proof already given?

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Old 05-11-2010, 05:10 PM   #2724
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Then name them because so far all you've done is say "Russians are bad" and "She is such a good spy that she can speak English perfectly".

the best spies are the ones who blend into the background

Neither of which are valid reasons for the character being introduced and kept as an American agent of SHIELD in the movie.

where in the movie is it said she is american??

The day that you come up with something that actually makes sense or is even boarderline logical, I'll listen to what you have to say. Cause so far I'll I'm hearing from you is "Boris and Natasha this" and Boris and Natasha that".


so no point in talking to you since you've shut your mind off





Yes, having a standard set in three videogames, a cartoon show that went into production the same time as the movie, and two different animated movies it would seem rational that people would have come to terms that Marvel thinks she has an accent instead of coming up with their own lame reasons to defend Scarlett and Theroux.
did Marvel make any of the games???? No Did they make the cartoon show no....does the general audience even know about the games and cartoon...no...Marvel however have complete control over the movies they make....if they wanted her to have an accent then she would have had one


And you know for a fact that Marvel has more control in the movies rights that they sell to large corporations than the much smaller media formats such as tv shows, direct to dvd animated movies and videogames?
why would Marvel have more control on a game made by Activision than a movie made by MARVEL STUDIOS????


Try harder next time cause instead of being funny you just sounded stupid.

yeah Im the stupid one

And why would Black Widow even harm Tony if Tony thought she betrayed him and tried to fight her. She would have defended herself, incompasitated him with doing any serious bodily harm and left. Her mission is just to monitor Tony's personality, not to eliminate him if things go south.

I dont know it was your stupid idea

And saying she was ex KGB would have been enough. You making it sound like Fury saying "Tony I'd like you to introduce you to Nastaha Romanoff, ex KGB agent, and currently SHIELD's number one spy" would have taken 10 minutes of exposition or something.

I would bet that even if he said that you would still be unhappy

And in your mind, erasing a characters entire history and appeal is ok just as long as she is a hot piece of ass in a skin tight outfit.

really??? How did they erase her history???

Because if they had given the character short brown hair or long blonde hair you wouldn't have even been able to tell the different between Scarlett's Black Widow or SHIELD agents Maria Hill and Sharon Carter.

Nothing about Scarlett "screamed" Black Widow except for the red hair.

And if you think that I've been asking for the movie to have dedicated 30 minutes directly to the Black Widow to go over her entire history then not only are you terrible at paying attention to movies like you proved above but you obviously aren't able to pay attention to what I've been saying this entire time.
sure whatever...dont bother responding to this post as I am here to discuss the movie and all you want to do is nerdrage...I wont respond

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Last edited by roach; 05-11-2010 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:26 PM   #2725
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Default Re: Scarlett Johansson is the Black Widow

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Originally Posted by Figs View Post
In regards to the accent argument, personally I think it also has to do with Scarlett probably having trouble holding an accent since I don't think she's that great of an actress.

Don't get me wrong, I liked that Black Widow was in the film(i'm one of the ones that didn't find the film to be bloated or confused as some put it)but I just couldn't take Scarlett seriously. I think she did alright but honestly I think I would have preferred a new actress in the role, accent or not.

There was one scene that made me roll my eyes. It was when she slammed Hammer down at the end and asked him that question. I think it was "where is he", in regards to Vanko. The second time she repeats it with more authority I just chuckled because it didn't come off all that tough but more like she was trying too hard to act tough.

It's all about Gwyneth Paltrow in this film. She was great to watch primarily because she was a female character in a comic film(let alone a lot of films)that was written with respect and little to no cliches. She was confident and in charge, she wasn't the other two types of females you get in action films. Either the damsel in distress or the woman trying to be a badass. I get that the character Black Widow does in fact kick some ass but I guess it all came down to Scarlett as the reason why I didn't like the character as much as I should have.
Heh, I'm glad I'm not one of the ones who noticed that too. The second "Where is he?" line came off as a little hokey to me. All she needed to do was bend him arm more and say it once. Rorschach style.

I had no problem with Johnason, but I think Paltrow is probably the second best female character in a comic book film behind Michelle Pfieffer in BR.

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If this was directed at me, I don't come here just to bad mouth the movie, I come here to discuss any new and relevant news. The new and relevant news just so happened to be ****.
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