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View Poll Results: Do you think the Republican Party needs to evolve and become more inclusive?
Yes 48 84.21%
No 6 10.53%
I'm not sure 3 5.26%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-11-2012, 09:42 PM   #226
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Default Re: Discussion: The REPUBLICAN Party XIV

But was Paul a write in candidate in your state?

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Old 11-11-2012, 09:45 PM   #227
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Why?
I understand Paradox's thinking. He wants the country to self-destruct to learn from mistakes of massive deficit spending and police state politics. Having a GOP which is just a rightwing big government masquerading as small government hides the cause of massive fiscal failure we're about to face. It allows liberals to paint big government Bush Jr/Rockefellar Republicans as conservatives when they're really just moderate Democrats or socially conservative Democrats.

I don't agree with his desire, per say...but I understand his goal.

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Old 11-11-2012, 09:48 PM   #228
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But was Paul a write in candidate in your state?

how should I know...

ok...I voted for Mickey Mouse....I voted for guy who best represented me...I don't know if anyone counted or documented anyway...I decided not to vote for Romney, and that's all that mattered.

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Old 11-11-2012, 09:54 PM   #229
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Default Re: Discussion: The REPUBLICAN Party XIV

You should know because it was your vote, and wouldn't get counted otherwise.

For example, I knew that Johnson was an official write-in candidate for Michigan, and that only Obama and Romney were on the ballot for Oklahoma (no write-ins allowed).

Sure you didn't vote for Romney, but because your vote wasn't counted, as far as the parties are concerned, you might as well not have voted at all.

But every vote for an official 3rd party candidate (write-in or on the ballot) does count towards their numbers, and tell the big two parties that they're that much further away from representing the people.

I totally agree with voting for who you agree with most, rather than just by party. But it sort of has to be from those who are actual candidates.

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Old 11-11-2012, 10:07 PM   #230
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ok...I guess I could have added to the .53% Gary got or voted for CFP candidate...neither here nor there...I voted in other races on the ballot for official candidates...most of them also losing.

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Old 11-11-2012, 10:12 PM   #231
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Default Re: Discussion: The REPUBLICAN Party XIV

hey, nothing wrong with voting for the losing candidate.

We're the only ones who have the right to complain

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Old 11-11-2012, 10:17 PM   #232
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Default Re: Discussion: The REPUBLICAN Party XIV

If people really want a Third Party option, then they have to get involved in the local level. Get third party city councilors, mayors and state senators. The world is not going to magically wake up one day and make a third party presidential candidate viable, it needs to grow.

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Old 11-11-2012, 10:32 PM   #233
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If people really want a Third Party option, then they have to get involved in the local level. Get third party city councilors, mayors and state senators. The world is not going to magically wake up one day and make a third party presidential candidate viable, it needs to grow.
And that's the problem. People just expect someone else to do stuff, and then complain when no one does.

They also need to start getting IRV setup at the local levels to push it's acceptance, and demystify it.

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Old 11-11-2012, 11:11 PM   #234
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Ron Paul is more principled. I agree with Paul's position on social issues...I think Gary Johnson wants social issues mandated at federal level (gay marraige and abortion rights mandated across the board) whereas Paul supports allowing states to decide those issues. I agree with Paul abortion should be treated like a state crime like assault and rape instead of being a federal talking point or something thrust in US Constitution. That fundamental difference between those two candidates made the difference...if you're not going to vote for 2 party system, might as well vote the one you agree with most.
And that's why I don't agree with Libertarians, because social issues like gay marriage shouldn't be decided at a state level - they are civil rights, and the rights of the minority are not to be voted on by the majority.

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Old 11-11-2012, 11:45 PM   #235
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For argument sake the Asians got off scott free from the Republican anti rhetoric, grant you I think they could read between the lines about not having American values or understanding America well enough in regard to other minorities.
As an Asian woman, I was particularly offended by the anti-woman comments. I didn't escape the patriarchy in the traditional Chinese culture just to be confronted with another one!

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And that's why I don't agree with Libertarians, because social issues like gay marriage shouldn't be decided at a state level - they are civil rights, and the rights of the minority are not to be voted on by the majority.
Which is why it tickles me so much that the states are starting to vote them in. It's like we're gonna drag the politicians - the ones that are supposed to know better - into the 21st century and civil rights.

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Old 11-12-2012, 01:09 AM   #236
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For argument sake the Asians got off scott free from the Republican anti rhetoric, grant you I think they could read between the lines about not having American values or understanding America well enough in regard to other minorities.
Actually when ever the Republicans engage in anti-China rhetoric, they usually end up using a bunch of generic racist Asian stereotypes and caricature to attack the Chinese. They don't realize that it ends up offending Asian Americans also.

Senate candidate Pete Hoekstra under fire for ad


Rush Limbaugh's Chinese Slurs



I could easily go from China is taking our jobs to Chinese Americans could potentially be spies and there communities need to be keep under surveillance. In 20 years Asian will be the new Arabs.

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Old 11-12-2012, 01:30 AM   #237
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Default Re: Discussion: The REPUBLICAN Party XIV

Deja vu.

Though really most Chinese Americans have very little (if any) love for the People's Republic of China.

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Old 11-12-2012, 01:32 AM   #238
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Deja vu.

Though really most Chinese Americans have very little (if any) love for the People's Republic of China.
There like Cubans. Cubans hate Castro and his regime but if some bigoted Republican just started mocking Cuban's culture, language, and food in an attack on Castro they would still be offended.

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Old 11-12-2012, 01:34 AM   #239
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Actually when ever the Republicans engage in anti-China rhetoric, they usually end up using a bunch of generic racist Asian stereotypes and caricature to attack the Chinese. They don't realize that it ends up offending Asian Americans also.
The Debbie Spend It Now ad was only in Michigan but fair enough. All that being said I don't think the Asians get it nearly as much as African Americans or Latinos. As thunder points out I am guessing(and I could be wrong) that alot of Asians don't take any offense to attacking trade with China(as long as they not done trying to use stereotypes like the Spend It Now Ad)

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Old 11-12-2012, 02:18 AM   #240
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It is however very easy to turn it into a broader anti-Asian thing.

Remember that idiot who murdered a Chinese American man because he was angry about auto manufacturing jobs being lost of Japan?

The average person (read: idiot) can't tell the difference between Chinese and Japanese cuisine.

There's a reason politicians use racism. It's worked great for them in the past.

Humans are by nature predisposition towards racism. Hell, the Chinese government is doing it right now with Japanese people (and Japan did it with Chinese people before that).

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Old 11-12-2012, 02:29 AM   #241
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Default Re: Discussion: The REPUBLICAN Party XIV

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I could easily go from China is taking our jobs to Chinese Americans could potentially be spies and there communities need to be keep under surveillance. In 20 years Asian will be the new Arabs.
Hopefully by that time, there will be so many hapas that nobody could trust anyone. I have cousins who are half-Chinese (obviously my side) and they don't look Asian at all. The younger one can speak fluent Mandarin and apparently whenever he does it, he throws everybody for a loop.

Nearly all the relatives of my generation have married outside the race, including myself. We have planned early for the anti-Asian sentiment and have taken your white men as husbands for protection.

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Old 11-12-2012, 03:50 AM   #242
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Given how fast minority growth has been the last 20 years, the next 20 years will probably see an even greater shift. I'm hoping some of this old fasioned racism and bigotry will just naturally fade away as minority and majority shift around. Not to mention 20 years from now, it will be the 10 and 20 year olds of today who are in charge. Who are more seem to be more tolerant than the 30-40 year olds of today, who are more tolerant than their grandparents, and so on. Racism still has a strong grip, but I just hope it won't be as much of an issue going down the road.

I think a lot of it in politics now is from rich white politicians being afraid of losing their power. The message their party has been sending for a long time no longer works because of a population shift. You don't have to rely purely on white males to win an election anymore. I'm sure that scares the crap outta some politicians who have no idea what to do to connect with them because they're so out of touch. When in reality they just have to treat them as equal humans, and make sure their policies reflect that.

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Old 11-12-2012, 09:34 AM   #243
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If people really want a Third Party option, then they have to get involved in the local level. Get third party city councilors, mayors and state senators. The world is not going to magically wake up one day and make a third party presidential candidate viable, it needs to grow.
Exactly.

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Old 11-12-2012, 09:39 AM   #244
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Default Re: Discussion: The REPUBLICAN Party XIV

Instead of moving to far right, The Republican should move towards the center, they need to be more inclusive.

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Old 11-12-2012, 09:48 AM   #245
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I agree most of your criticism of the GOP and their inability to carry out smaller government promises. I think Clinton's "success" with budget is overrated when you consider borrowing from social security fund and not cutting enough to pay the interest on the national debt. Nonetheless, he was better than Bush Jr and other modern day presidents.

I just don't think short term it makes sense to immediately write off social conservatives because they are going to go somewhere. It's better they hold onto local elections even if they can't win Senate or White House anymore.That is because I think long term the Republican Party (in its current incarnation) is going to die anyway. If 60% of Ohio voters wants auto bailouts, no libertarian form of GOP is going to capture the electorate at national level.

I wrote in Ron Paul...I agree military spending should be cut and drugs/marriage should be state issues. I personally don't think describing marriage as a "bedroom issue" is accurate...marriage is a public status contract. If a community can't decide how to define a contract...who can? I don't care what people do in their bedrooms...I'd rather people keep their lives in bedroom as much as possible...but the Social Left wants their alternate lifestyles practiced and celebrated in public domain, classrooms, entertainment, and other mediums of social engineering.
It makes long term sense, because its a losing battle. The older generation doesn't believe in gay marriage, but the younger generation does and the younger generation will supplant the older one soon enough. If the GOP wants to appeal to people who are not old white men, it will have to change its social polices.

Plus this comes off as a contradiction, the GOP says its for small government, but its telling consenting adults who they can and can't get married to? If marriage is a contract, why should it be treated differently then any other contract? We don't tell gay couples they can't buy a house, so why can they get involved in one contract and not another? I have not seen one good argument against gay marriage, its based on personal religious beliefs and I don't think public policy should be based on personal religious belief. That is big government, no matter how you slice it.

If you believe in small government, you can't make these vast exceptions. Times change and people who don't change with them will be left behind. A party needs people far more then people need a party, a party that can't keep up with changing demographics will be left behind. The GOP can still be a viable right wing party, but they have to accept its not 80s anymore, the coalition that Reagan created doesn't work anymore, Regan's day is done and it has been for a while. The GOP can stay in the past or look to the future.

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Old 11-12-2012, 10:10 AM   #246
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Default Re: Discussion: The REPUBLICAN Party XIV

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It is however very easy to turn it into a broader anti-Asian thing.

Remember that idiot who murdered a Chinese American man because he was angry about auto manufacturing jobs being lost of Japan?

The average person (read: idiot) can't tell the difference between Chinese and Japanese cuisine.

There's a reason politicians use racism. It's worked great for them in the past.

Humans are by nature predisposition towards racism. Hell, the Chinese government is doing it right now with Japanese people (and Japan did it with Chinese people before that).
It's important to note that hate-motivated violence against Asian-Americans is as likely to come from the left, as it is from the right.

The Vincent Chin murder you describe above came in the wake of extreme protests staged by and incited by the UAW, where violent language was used and unionized protesters smashed Toyotas with sledgehammers to express their hatred of the Japanese car industry.

The fact that the Rodney King riots were essentially a pogrom against Korean-Americans was largely ignored at the time and even now, historically, by left-wing media and left-wing African-American activists. At best, it is characterized as a "justified" proletarian response by the aforementioned parties.

Stanley "Tookie" Williams committed what was essentially a hate-motivated mass murder that nearly wiped out an entire family, and yet up until his execution was a folk hero for the left (including Margaret Cho of all people).

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Old 11-12-2012, 10:12 AM   #247
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People wearing Tookie Williams shirts is just as embarrassing as all the people wearing Che Guevara shirts who couldn't tell you a thing about him.

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Old 11-12-2012, 10:24 AM   #248
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NEWT GINGRICH "DUMBFOUNDED" BY PRESIDENT OBAMA'S RE-ELECTION
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2116401.html

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Old 11-12-2012, 10:30 AM   #249
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People wearing Tookie Williams shirts is just as embarrassing as all the people wearing Che Guevara shirts who couldn't tell you a thing about him.
Because murdering a working-class Asian-American family isn't "really" crime in the USA, apparently.

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Old 11-12-2012, 11:17 AM   #250
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The Debbie Spend It Now ad was only in Michigan but fair enough. All that being said I don't think the Asians get it nearly as much as African Americans or Latinos. As thunder points out I am guessing(and I could be wrong) that alot of Asians don't take any offense to attacking trade with China(as long as they not done trying to use stereotypes like the Spend It Now Ad)
To be fair, Asians doesn't have many racists rhethoric thrown at them because people pretty much ignore them. Rarely does anyone talk about catering to Asians to gain their vote; but, they do make sure to talk about trying to gain the African-Americans or Latinos votes.

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