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Old 07-02-2012, 04:36 PM   #1
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Default The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

For those who have seen the movie already and for those who will be very shortly, what did you think of Rhys Ifans as Curt Connors/The Lizard and how did he stack up compared to the other villain's we've seen Spidey go up against on film?

Up till now it's been generally accepted that Doc Ock in SM2 was the best villain we've gotten so far. From the great visuals, the nuances of Alfred Molina's performance, so forth.

Was he better than Doc Ock or your favorite Spidey villain on film? Not as good?


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Old 07-02-2012, 04:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

I will give you my opinion after tomorrow.
Good idea for a thread

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Old 07-02-2012, 10:24 PM   #3
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The Lizard is my favorite on screen villan yet.

I saw the movie last night so there will be some spoilers. I loved the movie and Conners was one of my favorite things about the movie. He's not evil, he thinks what he is doing is right, and that makes for some of the best villans. He has lived his hole life feeling incomplete, wanting to make himself better. He talks to Peter about how angry he was when peters father disappeared and he felt like his chances of fixing himself were gone.

When he becomes the lizard, for the first time he feels complete, powerful. And he becomes addicted. He changes his goal from fixing human frailties, to making humans into the more powerful lizard cross species. He truly thinks he is helping the world by making us into these creatures.

Rhys Ifans performance was great, he pulled it off splendidly.

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Old 07-08-2012, 11:25 AM   #4
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

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I will give you my opinion after tomorrow.
Good idea for a thread
After seeing it twice, I'm undecided.
Each villain offered something different.
Green Goblin was still a great villain, despite his costume lol.
Doc Ock's battles were eye-gasmic lol, his battle scenes had the longevity too.
The extended battle in 2.1 made it more brutal, so would probably rank Doc Ock first.

I would place Lizard second. He had the connection with Peter, after working on the decay rate algorithm and the Freddy simulation; even Spidey was saying during the school battle "this isn't you doc; don't make me hurt you" .
The high school fight was a joy to watch. Loved the way he just clawed at Spidey in the sewer battle.

What I liked more about Lizard compared to the other villains was that as soon as he deduced Spidey's identity, he went straight after him, not any of this "attack his heart" / people closest to him business, he went straight to the source!

I loved what we got, but I think slightly more character development/the deleted footage and lines would have probably put him 1st in my opinion.

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Old 07-08-2012, 12:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

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After seeing it twice, I'm undecided.
Each villain offered something different.
Green Goblin was still a great villain, despite his costume lol.
Doc Ock's battles were eye-gasmic lol, his battle scenes had the longevity too.
The extended battle in 2.1 made it more brutal, so would probably rank Doc Ock first.

I would place Lizard second. He had the connection with Peter, after working on the decay rate algorithm and the Freddy simulation; even Spidey was saying during the school battle "this isn't you doc; don't make me hurt you" .
The high school fight was a joy to watch. Loved the way he just clawed at Spidey in the sewer battle.

What I liked more about Lizard compared to the other villains was that as soon as he deduced Spidey's identity, he went straight after him, not any of this "attack his heart" / people closest to him business, he went straight to the source!

I loved what we got, but I think slightly more character development/the deleted footage and lines would have probably put him 1st in my opinion.
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:32 AM   #6
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

I thought he was a Doc Ock Clone...
I still think Doc Ock was more believable. His obsession was based on obtaining a life goal.
Lizard man kinda reminded me of Iron Man's villian on how he went crazy/megalomania for no real reason.
Maybe if the serum had psychological side effects, but the movie never hinted to it.
The schizo also sorta came outta nowhere.

Is the Amazing Spiderman > Spider Man 2 ? Yes, I kinda feel altogether it was a better movie. But I don't know if Doc ock was topped from a character development perspective.

The acting was believable and solid.

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Old 08-11-2012, 06:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

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I thought he was a Doc Ock Clone...
I still think Doc Ock was more believable. His obsession was based on obtaining a life goal.
Lizard man kinda reminded me of Iron Man's villian on how he went crazy/megalomania for no real reason.
Maybe if the serum had psychological side effects, but the movie never hinted to it.
The schizo also sorta came outta nowhere.

Is the Amazing Spiderman > Spider Man 2 ? Yes, I kinda feel altogether it was a better movie. But I don't know if Doc ock was topped from a character development perspective.

The acting was believable and solid.
This is why I hate what they did to Doc Ock in SM2. They completely stole the Lizard storyline and now people think Lizard is a Doc Ock copy where really it's the opposite! Doc Ock isn't supposed to be a sympathetic scientist gone wrong, he's supposed to be an evil mastermind!

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Old 08-11-2012, 07:47 PM   #8
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

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This is why I hate what they did to Doc Ock in SM2. They completely stole the Lizard storyline and now people think Lizard is a Doc Ock copy where really it's the opposite! Doc Ock isn't supposed to be a sympathetic scientist gone wrong, he's supposed to be an evil mastermind!
But thats what I LOVE so much about Rami's films is that he gave all the villians a heart. They were so much more than just the evil villians, but rather actual characters with personality and character arcs. Thats why the Lizard kinda failed for me in TASM because he did come off as a clone of what Rami did with the Ock character in SM2. I know thats not the case for the comic Lizard but for a filn that so despertly wanted to seperate its self from the "awful" Rami films that were praised during their time but are now treated as totall garbage by the general public and most of the internet, it pretty much did everything the same as Rami did. The changes made to Spidey's origins I'm not a huge fan of but ok I was sold on the idea and looking forward to seeing it play out on the big screen. But sadly half of the scenes and plot involving Peter's and Spider Man's connections with his parents were missing from the final film. This hurts the film and really dissapoints me. We didn't really get the film we were promised but rather a compromised work. I REALLY want an exteneded cut so bad.

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Old 12-29-2012, 08:18 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

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But thats what I LOVE so much about Rami's films is that he gave all the villians a heart. They were so much more than just the evil villians, but rather actual characters with personality and character arcs.

IMO, villains don't need a heart. That makes them NOT villains. Did Joker have a heart, what about Red Skull? Doc Ock should of been a complete villain.

Thats why the Lizard kinda failed for me in TASM because he did come off as a clone of what Rami did with the Ock character in SM2.

Doc Ock was more of a clone of Lizard.

I know thats not the case for the comic Lizard but for a filn that so despertly wanted to seperate its self from the "awful" Rami films that were praised during their time but are now treated as totall garbage by the general public and most of the internet, it pretty much did everything the same as Rami did.

The whole world doesn't treat the Raimi films like garbage. What are you talking about?

The changes made to Spidey's origins I'm not a huge fan of but ok I was sold on the idea and looking forward to seeing it play out on the big screen. But sadly half of the scenes and plot involving Peter's and Spider Man's connections with his parents were missing from the final film. This hurts the film and really dissapoints me. We didn't really get the film we were promised but rather a compromised work. I REALLY want an exteneded cut so bad.

Webb stated like a billion times that the story about his parents would spread throughout the trilogy. You weren't gonna get it all in one film. You didn't get the film that you thought was promised. Although I admit, the storyline with his parents was dropped rather quickly.

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Old 08-11-2012, 08:08 PM   #10
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

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But thats what I LOVE so much about Rami's films is that he gave all the villians a heart. They were so much more than just the evil villians, but rather actual characters with personality and character arcs. Thats why the Lizard kinda failed for me in TASM because he did come off as a clone of what Rami did with the Ock character in SM2. I know thats not the case for the comic Lizard but for a filn that so despertly wanted to seperate its self from the "awful" Rami films that were praised during their time but are now treated as totall garbage by the general public and most of the internet, it pretty much did everything the same as Rami did. The changes made to Spidey's origins I'm not a huge fan of but ok I was sold on the idea and looking forward to seeing it play out on the big screen. But sadly half of the scenes and plot involving Peter's and Spider Man's connections with his parents were missing from the final film. This hurts the film and really dissapoints me. We didn't really get the film we were promised but rather a compromised work. I REALLY want an exteneded cut so bad.
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This is why I hate what they did to Doc Ock in SM2. They completely stole the Lizard storyline and now people think Lizard is a Doc Ock copy where really it's the opposite! Doc Ock isn't supposed to be a sympathetic scientist gone wrong, he's supposed to be an evil mastermind!

I'm with you webhead. Because of fans like these, reboots are hard sells. Because Raimi did Doc Ock wrong, now everyone will think the correctly portrayed Lizard is a copycat. Which, imho is LAME.

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Old 08-11-2012, 08:50 PM   #11
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I'm with you webhead. Because of fans like these, reboots are hard sells. Because Raimi did Doc Ock wrong, now everyone will think the correctly portrayed Lizard is a copycat. Which, imho is LAME.
Hey I LOVE the Lizard from the comics! I wanted a better version of the character than what we got in the final film. I totally get and understand that Connors is not a evil person but a tragic figure, but the film didn't really convey that for me. By making Connors an agent of the mysterious Oscorp (espically in the post credits sequence), by having him keeping alot of information from Peter about his experiments and about Peter's parents, and ESPICALLY by removing Connor's wife and son they turned him into more of an evil creature. I wished we got more of Peter and Connors talking about the Parkers. I wish Peter got a chance to bond with Connors as a father figure. I wish Connors had more to do than he had in the final film. I liked him, and I did think he was sympathic when he is forced to experiment on himself to save the veterans though. I just think that he could have been developed even more. Its no secret that lots of footage was cut from the film and it shows.

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Old 08-12-2012, 07:26 AM   #12
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

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This is why I hate what they did to Doc Ock in SM2. They completely stole the Lizard storyline and now people think Lizard is a Doc Ock copy where really it's the opposite! Doc Ock isn't supposed to be a sympathetic scientist gone wrong, he's supposed to be an evil mastermind!
I totally agree!

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Old 12-29-2012, 08:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

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This is why I hate what they did to Doc Ock in SM2. They completely stole the Lizard storyline and now people think Lizard is a Doc Ock copy where really it's the opposite! Doc Ock isn't supposed to be a sympathetic scientist gone wrong, he's supposed to be an evil mastermind!
Completely agree with you.

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Old 07-03-2012, 03:41 AM   #14
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

Have to say:

I DO NOT LIKE THE LIZARD.

Okay? I don't like him that much in the comics -- or in the animated series.

BUT -- boy did I like him in this.

I liked Connor's so much more than I expected. This is a monster, a creature villain. Something that is so silly and unrealistic that it usually takes me out of the story. But here, it works. It's believable. Every second of it.

I don't know where he ranks, at present, with the villains of the Rami films. I need to watch the film a few more times. I will say that he is near the top. He was a great adversary in this film and that Rhys did a wonderful job with the character. (NOTE: I did miss not seeing Billy and Martha, but he HAD a wedding ring).

He definitely challenges Dafoe and Molina for "Top Spidey Villain" crown.

And I am pleasantly surprised.

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Old 07-03-2012, 04:17 AM   #15
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

I think the problem with most Spider-Man villains are one thing:

It's not the origins that make them special but their actions and rivalry with Spider-Man. So with most Spider-Man villains, they are 'created' within the film's timeframe and usually, they're scientistic minded genius with good intentions who got into an accident, and become blinded by their insanity. They also are sometimes father figures too.

So I think with Amazing Spider-Man 2, they just need to find a fresher approach to introduce the villain. I don't like Kraven as a character, but his backstory is always established from the get-go, so he can just jump right into the sequel as it. Samething with maybe Chameleon.

If all else, I like the Scorpion's tragic origins but you need to establish JJ's participation to his creation so that's tough.

With Green Goblin, his potential arc is fairly different from the first Raimi film so I'm glad they went with the sick angle.

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Old 07-03-2012, 04:19 AM   #16
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

This is a really good villain. Is he better than Molina? I honestly don't think so. The Lizard isn't as nuanced or quite as tragic, nor does he have a tragic fate like Doc Ock did. The Lizard is sent to jail, but he redeems himself slightly.

That being said, he manages to be incredibly tragic, you feel his desperation, and he really thinks he's doing the right thing. However, he also manages to kill a major character, something that only two original series villains (Sandman and Venom) managed to do, and only the latter was intentional.

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Old 07-03-2012, 04:22 AM   #17
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

They missed a huge opportunity by leaving out the Connors family, especially with the emphasis on Peter's search for a father figure. That moment with the kid on the bridge? Imagine that kid is Billy Connors, and we're in the Connors home. Now, the stakes are personal. Spider-Man isn't just saving the city, he's saving this boy's father - just as he wishes someone would've saved his. Dropped the ball, but otherwise Lizard is great.

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Old 07-03-2012, 04:24 AM   #18
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

Yeah, I think they missed out on having the rest of the Connors clan involved. I wonder what happened to that.

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Old 07-03-2012, 04:25 AM   #19
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I swear to God that they cast the son Billy at one point, right?

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Old 07-03-2012, 04:28 AM   #20
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

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I swear to God that they cast the son Billy at one point, right?
Unconfirmed, but there was an audition tape for a little boy for a Billy in a Columbia movie, so people ran with that as proof of the Lizard before Rhys' character had been announced. Huge opportunity missed as I reflect on that father/son reunion on the bridge.

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Old 07-03-2012, 04:51 AM   #21
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I think one trap us comic fan boys always fall into is we're trying to compare but movies are different art form to a more general fan base.

Leave the whole "i wish this was here because I liked it in the comics" outta the comic movie adaptation genre. You're only setting yourselves up for disappointment and ruining great movies for yourselves.

I do recognize the topic here is different. I definitely feel Connors having a family nor being able to be a father figure for Parker is a miss. But only for my selfish reasons. I remember Connor's and his family being such an integral part in Peter's 90's life. So it just felt like there was something missing.

I'd never thought that the film adaptation of Doc Ock would give him a wife while Connor's wouldn't have a family. But I'm just rambling now don't mind me

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Old 07-04-2012, 09:36 AM   #22
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Unconfirmed, but there was an audition tape for a little boy for a Billy in a Columbia movie, so people ran with that as proof of the Lizard before Rhys' character had been announced. Huge opportunity missed as I reflect on that father/son reunion on the bridge.
I remember there was an official confirmation that Miles Elliot had been cast as Billy at some point on SHH!, and upon doing some more Googling, I actually found this interview with the kid from June where he talks about his experience working on the film. And this part stuck out to me --

Quote:
What was it like on set of Amazing Spiderman?

It was awesome. I shot at a few different locations, a house in LA, on the New York streets at the Fox Lot and at a sound stage at Sony. There was a lizard wrangler on set one day and she brought a bunch of really cool, exotic reptiles.

Do you have any funny stories from working on the set?

There was a scene at a mental hospital where my mom and I go to visit Dr. Connors and Rhys kept cracking jokes making it tough for us to look sad. It was also fun riding around in the golf carts at Sony.
I don't remember there ever being any casting announcements for Martha, though I've seen the one for Dr Ratha's wife get conflated with it a few times, but it sounds like they DID film some scenes with Billy at least, and maybe Martha as well? If so, it kind of sucks they were edited out completely.

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Old 07-03-2012, 05:57 AM   #23
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I personally loved the lizard in the movie. Rhys' performance was amazing. I loved every second that he was on screen (I loved every second of the movie. ) But, what we still don't know is who that mysterious guy was talking to Connors in his cell. It seemed to me like the guy was an imaginary man, that Curt was seeing probably a side affect to the serum

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Old 07-03-2012, 08:14 AM   #24
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

Rhys Ifans was just great. A understated and somewhat subtle performance as Connors. Loved it. Then of course after his first transformation he was more a comic-book style villain but that's the point isn't it?

Lizard CGI was good. Loved the way his skin looked. You could see the texture in it. Very reptilian. Loved his size, the way he moved. Loved the action scenes with him. The scene where he slams Spidey around with his tail then throws it and him away and regrow a new one was just top notch.

Hated (HATED!) two things. His plan was terribly bland. Man becomes lizard monster, wants to turn people into lizard monsters. They had set-up an interesting storyline about a broken man who not only had lost his best friend but now his research to seemingly inhumane corporate men, but instead of focusing on some sort of monstrous revenge to mirror Spider-Man's own search for Ben's killer...Must turn people into TEH LIZERDS!

And his face was ridiculous. Why give him a human visage when he barely says anything worthwhile haha. His dialogue was mostly: You won't stop my plans etc. His whole design was just top notch except for the terrible looking bland goomba face. Didn't make him look bad just...blander than he actually was.

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Old 07-03-2012, 09:11 AM   #25
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

It's unfortunate that Raimi decided to completely screw up the character of Doc Ock and give him The Lizard's story because they are very identical and I think that does hurt it a bit but in saying that he is my second favorite behind Norman

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