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Old 06-20-2013, 07:45 AM   #251
GremlinZilla89
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Originally Posted by BlueLantern View Post
Isn't that one of the issues about a lot of the tropes present in this film? That's it been done before?

It is to me at least. The rest of what's being discussed is bordering on nauseating because it's the same thing over and over. Nothing new.

Poster 1 : Lol, those noobs are whining about MOS' destruction, check out this sarcastic post that exaggerates the point they're making.

Poster 2: This!1!1! OMG MOS BEST FILM EVAS!

Poster 3: I think things could've been done better. Like so.

Poster 4: OMG YOU MARVEL NOOB! AVENGERS SUXTED!

Poster 5: I complete disagree with Poster 3 for these specific and reasonably well put opinions but once things start looking not so good for me I'm going to become an eloquent version of Posters 1,2 and 4.

Poster 6: Whilst I accept your opinions, Poster 5, I think things could've been done better. Like so.

Poster 7: Realism.

Poster 8: Tots. So coolzors to see Superman kill!

Rinse and repeat. Please keep in mind, there's opinions critiquing the films I disagree with too, but it's just a pity that the vocal defenders of the film tend to descend into hyperbolic sarcasm or start ranting about realism or just keep recycling the same reasons again and again.

This is the most hypocritical post I've ever seen.

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Old 06-20-2013, 08:07 AM   #252
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Originally Posted by GremlinZilla89 View Post
This is the most hypocritical post I've ever seen.
On the contrary; I think you just proved his point.

Take a look in the mirror, you haven't exactly been open to criticisms of this film.

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Old 06-20-2013, 09:20 AM   #253
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Both. They go hand in hand.

Saving the world is always heroic but it is not in and of itself always dramatic. It depends on how its portrayed.

I mean the whole reason you set a climactic final battle in a city is to add drama and tension with all the people in danger. But if the city is a ghost town then there is no point.
Agreed... I see tons of 'empty actions'... there's no dread, no buildup, no purpose, no drama...

Just look at the SR's Plane Rescue scene.. now, there's drama, sense of urgency as the plane crashes down at terminal velocity and superman trying to catch up...

there're none of that here in MOS.. .just bang, bang, bang... you don't feel anything 'emotional' towards any of the fight scenes... it's no different from playing a video game...

But i guess some people might like action for action's sake...

What I see in this film is:

The emotional scenes didn't work as intended because they are not done well.. maybe cut too soon, or just didn't have the impact they are supposed to have. (case in point, no one on earth or anywhere else would let their own father die, no matter what.. if they have the power to easily save him). The Oil Rig scene looks more like a documentary than a dramatic rescue scene... you need to spend at least 10-15 minutes on each of these scenes, and cut out some of those nonsense 'repetitive crash thru buildings scenes'.

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Old 06-20-2013, 10:11 AM   #254
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Agreed... I see tons of 'empty actions'... there's no dread, no buildup, no purpose, no drama...

Just look at the SR's Plane Rescue scene.. now, there's drama, sense of urgency as the plane crashes down at terminal velocity and superman trying to catch up...

there're none of that here in MOS.. .just bang, bang, bang... you don't feel anything 'emotional' towards any of the fight scenes... it's no different from playing a video game...

But i guess some people might like action for action's sake...

What I see in this film is:

The emotional scenes didn't work as intended because they are not done well.. maybe cut too soon, or just didn't have the impact they are supposed to have. (case in point, no one on earth or anywhere else would let their own father die, no matter what.. if they have the power to easily save him). The Oil Rig scene looks more like a documentary than a dramatic rescue scene... you need to spend at least 10-15 minutes on each of these scenes, and cut out some of those nonsense 'repetitive crash thru buildings scenes'.
Mostly because we didn't see life is at stake. N may be the intention is to show how destructive it can get when 2 superpower aliens collide. To push up the climate.

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:02 AM   #255
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Originally Posted by BlueLantern View Post
Isn't that one of the issues about a lot of the tropes present in this film? That's it been done before?

It is to me at least. The rest of what's being discussed is bordering on nauseating because it's the same thing over and over. Nothing new.

Poster 1 : Lol, those noobs are whining about MOS' destruction, check out this sarcastic post that exaggerates the point they're making.

Poster 2: This!1!1! OMG MOS BEST FILM EVAS!

Poster 3: I think things could've been done better. Like so.

Poster 4: OMG YOU MARVEL NOOB! AVENGERS SUXTED!

Poster 5: I complete disagree with Poster 3 for these specific and reasonably well put opinions but once things start looking not so good for me I'm going to become an eloquent version of Posters 1,2 and 4.

Poster 6: Whilst I accept your opinions, Poster 5, I think things could've been done better. Like so.

Poster 7: Realism.

Poster 8: Tots. So coolzors to see Superman kill!

Rinse and repeat. Please keep in mind, there's opinions critiquing the films I disagree with too, but it's just a pity that the vocal defenders of the film tend to descend into hyperbolic sarcasm or start ranting about realism or just keep recycling the same reasons again and again.
I agree with you to some extend. Now if you had remembered to throw in posters 1, 2, 4 and 8 on the other side of the fence, I would agree totally.
You're insinuating that every critic of this movie is making valid points and explaining why they see things the way they do, while "the defence" is just talking crap.
I think (hope) we can both agree that's not the case

But this movie was destined to create arguments, wasn't it? I don't believe it's possible to make a Superman movie that satisfies everyone, as the character means something different to every person.
And when you add in the fact that the creators wanted to mix it up a little, is was destined to piss some people off. And make others happy.

But I agree that there's no reason to compete about reaching the lowest possible level when discussing it.

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:04 AM   #256
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Mostly because we didn't see life is at stake. N may be the intention is to show how destructive it can get when 2 superpower aliens collide. To push up the climate.
Exactly.. you can create a more dramatic, thrilling action sequence if you have the proper build up, the dread, and the 'threat to a few people you care about'... simply blowing things up does none of that...

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:11 AM   #257
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Agreed... I see tons of 'empty actions'... there's no dread, no buildup, no purpose, no drama...

Just look at the SR's Plane Rescue scene.. now, there's drama, sense of urgency as the plane crashes down at terminal velocity and superman trying to catch up...

there're none of that here in MOS.. .just bang, bang, bang... you don't feel anything 'emotional' towards any of the fight scenes... it's no different from playing a video game...


But i guess some people might like action for action's sake...
I've never understood why people even attempt to do this. Clearly it's a matter of opinion and it's highly contested yet it's thrown out there with as much assertion as when you ask a 8 year old the color of the sky.

I mean who are you speaking for? Because it sounds like you are speaking for 100% of the audience. Do you think 100% of the audience feels this way?

The worst part is, if you flip this critique around the same could just as easily apply to Returns vs MOS, when it comes to the plane rescue in particular.
Just seems pointless.

Quote:
The emotional scenes didn't work as intended because they are not done well.. maybe cut too soon, or just didn't have the impact they are supposed to have. (case in point, no one on earth or anywhere else would let their own father die, no matter what.. if they have the power to easily save him). The Oil Rig scene looks more like a documentary than a dramatic rescue scene... you need to spend at least 10-15 minutes on each of these scenes, and cut out some of those nonsense 'repetitive crash thru buildings scenes'.
There you go again. I suppose everyone here that mentioned feeling emotional bought the wrong ticket. I get that they might not have worked for you but something about that phrasing.

As for letting one's father die and how many people would do it. Superman isn't like everyone. I keep being told that. Sometimes it's no about the selfish choice but the one that's best.
More to the point, there seem to be stakes to that rescue that alot of people aren't seeing. For one, Jon Kent chose his sons life over his. A decision many fathers would make. Kind of emotional if you give it a minute to sink in.
People also seem to think clark could have been able to save him without incident. sure, i guess if you want to think that.

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:15 AM   #258
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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All these arguments are funny to me...

The people argueing that Superman didn't do enough to stop Zod from killing so many people are also the same people who argued Superman should never kill... don't you guys see the illogic there?

Now, if only Superman had snapped Zod's neck at the very beginning, maybe we didn't have to deal with city-wide destruction???
That might be the route most other heroes go for. Not superman though he had to expunge all other options and be put in a corner before he did.

Imagine that
Guess he didn't care about all those lives after all...talk about a no win.

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:17 AM   #259
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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I've never understood why people even attempt to do this. Clearly it's a matter of opinion and it's highly contested yet it's thrown out there with as much assertion as when you ask a 8 year old the color of the sky.

I mean who are you speaking for? Because it sounds like you are speaking for 100% of the audience. Do you think 100% of the audience feels this way?

The worst part is, if you flip this critique around the same could just as easily apply to Returns vs MOS, when it comes to the plane rescue in particular.
Just seems pointless.



There you go again. I suppose everyone here that mentioned feeling emotional bought the wrong ticket. I get that they might not have worked for you but something about that phrasing.

As for letting one's father die and how many people would do it. Superman isn't like everyone. I keep being told that. Sometimes it's no about the selfish choice but the one that's best.
More to the point, there seem to be stakes to that rescue that alot of people aren't seeing. For one, Jon Kent chose his sons life over his. A decision many fathers would make. Kind of emotional if you give it a minute to sink in.
People also seem to think clark could have been able to save him without incident. sure, i guess if you want to think that.
You lost me there... these are all my opinions that I share with people with the same opinion... (and believe it or not, there are as many in my camp as in the other)

when I say 'this could have done so much better'.. i mean, for ME and people who thinks like ME... I was 'agreeing' with such another person who shares the same opinion...

If you like the action sequences, then that's fine with me... just don't go blowing your top off with anyone who disagrees with you... I never did that... you did... !!!


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Old 06-20-2013, 11:29 AM   #260
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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If you like the action sequences, then that's fine with me... just don't go blowing your top off with anyone who disagrees with you... I never did that... you did... !!!
when?
Point out where I blew my top and I'll apologize.
I would hope you can for I wouldn't want to think you were trying to paint a negative picture of how I carry my self and the style of my arguments.

Quote:
You lost me there... these are all my opinions that I share with people with the same opinion...

when I say 'this could have done so much better'.. i mean, for ME and people who thinks like ME...
And I know it's your opinion, however
Quote:
Originally Posted by robot View Post
Just look at the SR's Plane Rescue scene.. now, there's drama, sense of urgency as the plane crashes down at terminal velocity and superman trying to catch up...

there're none of that here in MOS.. .just bang, bang, bang... you don't feel anything 'emotional' towards any of the fight scenes... it's no different from playing a video game...
Thanks for the insight, I didn't know that's how I felt.

You, Me, english isn't my first language I should point out.
Wait a minute, when you said I blew my top, did you really mean you did? This is getting bizarre.

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:32 AM   #261
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Agreed... I see tons of 'empty actions'... there's no dread, no buildup, no purpose, no drama...

Just look at the SR's Plane Rescue scene.. now, there's drama, sense of urgency as the plane crashes down at terminal velocity and superman trying to catch up...

there're none of that here in MOS.. .just bang, bang, bang... you don't feel anything 'emotional' towards any of the fight scenes... it's no different from playing a video game...

But i guess some people might like action for action's sake...

What I see in this film is:

The emotional scenes didn't work as intended because they are not done well.. maybe cut too soon, or just didn't have the impact they are supposed to have. (case in point, no one on earth or anywhere else would let their own father die, no matter what.. if they have the power to easily save him). The Oil Rig scene looks more like a documentary than a dramatic rescue scene... you need to spend at least 10-15 minutes on each of these scenes, and cut out some of those nonsense 'repetitive crash thru buildings scenes'.

Wow the you must have missed when Jenny was in the rubble and Perry and others were desparate trying to get her you but couldnt. The gravity waves were getting closer and closer. Superman was on the other sider of the world trying to take down the world engine but it had a defense mechanism so it fought superman with its tentacles. The waves were getting closer and closer and Jenny was bawling her eyes out because she didnt want to die... She didnt want to die is what she said. Superman is still fighting but the waves are closing in to crushes her and everyone else.

Superman get knocked down to the ground and is getting blasted full force by the gravity beam. He gets up puts his fist in the air, clearly struggling, he then puts his arms down and looks up with his face rippling so much that you can catch when his face looks like Christopher Reeve (nice touch)....Then with all his might he takes off and flies with force, with angst on his face because gravity beam is so powerful. The waves get closer and closer and Perry holds Jenny's hand as they wait for their seemingly pending death. Superman gets closers and then sceams to get that last push and BOOOOOOOOOOOOM he destroys the world engine. The gravity waves stops just yards away from Jenny and Perry. And they are saved. Superman lies on the ground exhausted with nothing left. He looks to his right and sees the beautiful sunset and reaches out for it.


My friend how can you miss that. How can you miss all of that. That scene was more emotional than the plane scene in SR.

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:32 AM   #262
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Originally Posted by BlueLantern View Post

Rinse and repeat. Please keep in mind, there's opinions critiquing the films I disagree with too, but it's just a pity that the vocal defenders of the film tend to descend into hyperbolic sarcasm or start ranting about realism or just keep recycling the same reasons again and again.
Can't really speak on this, but I would think it might help if we didn't have to hear that superman leveled an entire city and didn't care didn't keep coming up after the opposite has been proved many times.

I know that's hyperbole but, that's the point, it's getting old.

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:35 AM   #263
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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How does batman begins compare to STM.

Puzo didn't bring his A game to STM. That time spin at the end isn't just stupid, and a plot hole, but a straight up deus ex...

Goyer's dialogue is fine for the material imo, then again he's doesn't have characters shooting off the thought provoking nonsense quips of Marvel Studio's last two hits(which would be a far more fair comparison than the freaking god father), but he get's the job done.
Nice try. The earth spin thing was not Puzo. They ran out of time on the film, and had to complete it, Donner took a scene from Superman 2 and used it to end this one. That had nothing to do with the screen play.

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:35 AM   #264
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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when?
Point out where I blew my top and I'll apologize.
I would hope you can for I wouldn't want to think you were trying to paint a negative picture of how I carry my self and the style of my arguments.


And I know it's your opinion, however

Thanks for the insight, I didn't know that's how I felt.

You, Me, same old thing I suppose.
You were being condescending and putting words in my post... and yes, it's perfectly ok to use the word 'you' when i am describing the scenes..

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:37 AM   #265
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Wow the you must have missed when Jenny was in the rubble and Perry and others were desparate trying to get her you but couldnt. The gravity waves were getting closer and closer. Superman was on the other sider of the world trying to take down the world engine but it had a defense mechanism so it fought superman with its tentacles. The waves were getting closer and closer and Jenny was bawling her eyes out because she didnt want to die... She didnt want to die is what she said. Superman is still fighting but the waves are closing in to crushes her and everyone else.

Superman get knocked down to the ground and is getting blasted full force by the gravity beam. He gets up puts his fist in the air, clearly struggling, he then puts his arms down and looks up with his face rippling so much that you can catch when his face looks like Christopher Reeve (nice touch)....Then with all his might he takes off and flies with force, with angst on his face because gravity beam is so powerful. The waves get closer and closer and Perry holds Jenny's hand as they wait for their seemingly pending death. Superman gets closers and then sceams to get that last push and BOOOOOOOOOOOOM he destroys the world engine. The gravity waves stops just yards away from Jenny and Perry. And they are saved. Superman lies on the ground exhausted with nothing left. He looks to his right and sees the beautiful sunset and reaches out for it.


My friend how can you miss that. How can you miss all of that. That scene was more emotional than the plane scene in SR.
You're right.. I was speaking 'in general'.. there are so many wasted scenes.. like the oil rig scene for instance.. another 3-5 min to add in more details would have turned that into a gem instead of a 'lets get on with this scene'.

Also, no, I don't think it was anywhere near the Plane Rescue scene, IMO...

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:38 AM   #266
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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All these arguments are funny to me...

The people argueing that Superman didn't do enough to stop Zod from killing so many people are also the same people who argued Superman should never kill... don't you guys see the illogic there?

Now, if only Superman had snapped Zod's neck at the very beginning, maybe we didn't have to deal with city-wide destruction???

The more you keep throwing up these straw men, the weaker your arguments become.

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:39 AM   #267
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Wow the you must have missed when Jenny was in the rubble and Perry and others were desparate trying to get her you but couldnt. The gravity waves were getting closer and closer. Superman was on the other sider of the world trying to take down the world engine but it had a defense mechanism so it fought superman with its tentacles. The waves were getting closer and closer and Jenny was bawling her eyes out because she didnt want to die... She didnt want to die is what she said. Superman is still fighting but the waves are closing in to crushes her and everyone else.

Superman get knocked down to the ground and is getting blasted full force by the gravity beam. He gets up puts his fist in the air, clearly struggling, he then puts his arms down and looks up with his face rippling so much that you can catch when his face looks like Christopher Reeve (nice touch)....Then with all his might he takes off and flies with force, with angst on his face because gravity beam is so powerful. The waves get closer and closer and Perry holds Jenny's hand as they wait for their seemingly pending death. Superman gets closers and then sceams to get that last push and BOOOOOOOOOOOOM he destroys the world engine. The gravity waves stops just yards away from Jenny and Perry. And they are saved. Superman lies on the ground exhausted with nothing left. He looks to his right and sees the beautiful sunset and reaches out for it.


My friend how can you miss that. How can you miss all of that. That scene was more emotional than the plane scene in SR.
To be fair(cause I am), it seems people cared more about lois(and the plane) at that point in Returns than they did about Jenny, Perry and that other guy.
Not sure why though, seemed like we had about the same time to get to know each.

Personally I found more the MOS scene more dramatic in terms of stakes and even more so cause I was sure this jenny chick was going to die. Not sure how else that plane scene could have ended.

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:41 AM   #268
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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The more you keep throwing up these straw men, the weaker your arguments become.
Only to someone who doesn't understand logic...

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:44 AM   #269
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You were being condescending and putting words in my post... and yes, it's perfectly ok to use the word 'you' when i am describing the scenes..
Sorry if you took it that way. I usually only offend people when I want to.

Moving on,
I find this approach of using "you" pretty condescending to be sure. I know how I feel about a scene. Then I read a review of someone not telling me how they feel but how I feel?
Unless you're a kindergarten teacher, I will find that approach to expressing one's opinion annoying. It's not just you but I figured it was time to say something.

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:46 AM   #270
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Nice try. The earth spin thing was not Puzo. They ran out of time on the film, and had to complete it, Donner took a scene from Superman 2 and used it to end this one. That had nothing to do with the screen play.
So they got that deus ex scene from superman 2? I didn't know that.

Who wrote superman 2?

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:47 AM   #271
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You're right.. I was speaking 'in general'.. there are so many wasted scenes.. like the oil rig scene for instance.. another 3-5 min to add in more details would have turned that into a gem instead of a 'lets get on with this scene'.

Also, no, I don't think it was anywhere near the Plane Rescue scene, IMO...
Well I cant blame anyone liking that plane scene better. I still find it amazing.

And I dont think it was a lets get in on this scene thing. It continued the notion that there is a special person in the world that does great feats to save people but only to dissapear and never heard from again. And as you see when he saved those people his was on the run again. Which also ties in with Jonathan Kents words to him. Pa Kent told Clark that the world was not ready for him. But Clark let his father die because of that advice. So that "happy" medium for Clark is to save people and run away.

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Old 06-20-2013, 12:23 PM   #272
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And I dont think it was a lets get in on this scene thing. It continued the notion that there is a special person in the world that does great feats to save people but only to dissapear and never heard from again. And as you see when he saved those people his was on the run again. Which also ties in with Jonathan Kents words to him. Pa Kent told Clark that the world was not ready for him. But Clark let his father die because of that advice. So that "happy" medium for Clark is to save people and run away.
Wow, I thought I was the only one that was seeing it this way. Thanks.

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Old 06-20-2013, 12:30 PM   #273
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

It's illogical that I cried during 3 scenes in this movie because it's supposed to be heartless and emotionless........

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Old 06-20-2013, 12:37 PM   #274
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

Anyone who has seen the movie and says Superman doesn't care about humans is delusional. the fact that Zod was stopped by Superman whose intention was to destroy the planet and kill all humans is pretty much obvious to critics as well. Just because the battle was in Metropolis doesn't mean Zod intendly only to kill Metropolis people. There was a line in the movie by Zod: "There is only one way this will end, either I will live or you will". Zod knew full well the future of krypton will be from him or from Kal-el. Zod's mission was to get the codex from Superman by Killing him, destroy the planet and repopulate earth and Superman's mission was to stop Zod from destroying the planet. Now that the ships were destroyed and the scientist was dead, the only future was for Zod to kill humans and rule over them and somehow kill Superman and try to find a way in the future to use the codex. Superman on the other hand being Superman for a whole day had 2 choices. Either save hundreds of thousands of people (impossible task even for superman) or stop Zod at the cost of thousands of People. Its like saying Superman should have kept saving people while Zod should have kept killing people (does anyone realise how absurd it sounds). Just because you don't see Superman saving people like a typical hollywood movie doesnt mean he doesnt care. He cared enough to put himself between humans and the only other Kryptonian left and risk his own life doing it.

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Old 06-20-2013, 02:25 PM   #275
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by moviefan! View Post
Anyone who has seen the movie and says Superman doesn't care about humans is delusional. the fact that Zod was stopped by Superman whose intention was to destroy the planet and kill all humans is pretty much obvious to critics as well. Just because the battle was in Metropolis doesn't mean Zod intendly only to kill Metropolis people. There was a line in the movie by Zod: "There is only one way this will end, either I will live or you will". Zod knew full well the future of krypton will be from him or from Kal-el. Zod's mission was to get the codex from Superman by Killing him, destroy the planet and repopulate earth and Superman's mission was to stop Zod from destroying the planet. Now that the ships were destroyed and the scientist was dead, the only future was for Zod to kill humans and rule over them and somehow kill Superman and try to find a way in the future to use the codex. Superman on the other hand being Superman for a whole day had 2 choices. Either save hundreds of thousands of people (impossible task even for superman) or stop Zod at the cost of thousands of People. Its like saying Superman should have kept saving people while Zod should have kept killing people (does anyone realise how absurd it sounds). Just because you don't see Superman saving people like a typical hollywood movie doesnt mean he doesnt care. He cared enough to put himself between humans and the only other Kryptonian left and risk his own life doing it.
Agreed!

Plus, who wants to see superman and zod going at it on the moon???

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