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Old 06-10-2018, 10:30 PM   #476
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Default Re: Why is making a good Superman movie so hard?

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Clark and Superman are the same person. There's no real direct separation of personalities in the AS. Being serious generally isn't unlikable to me.Hereafter to me are episodes where Superman is likable. Those are the episodes that showed me how compelling he can be to me. A Better World is another. The Doomsday Sanction is another. Legacy in Superman the animated series. Apokolips... Now! And For The Man Who Has Everything.
Comfort and Joy is my favorite Superman/Clark episode from the JL/JLU series. Underneath the sometimes stoic exterior of Superman, there was a farm boy who acted, quite literally, like a kid on Christmas. The bathtub scene in BvS reminded me of this side of Superman's personality. Kal has a playful aspect, but he's all business when he puts on the tights.

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Old 06-11-2018, 02:05 AM   #477
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Default Re: Why is making a good Superman movie so hard?

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Comfort and Joy is my favorite Superman/Clark episode from the JL/JLU series. Underneath the sometimes stoic exterior of Superman, there was a farm boy who acted, quite literally, like a kid on Christmas. The bathtub scene in BvS reminded me of this side of Superman's personality. Kal has a playful aspect, but he's all business when he puts on the tights.
I would call him in Comfort and Joy more or less being Clark Kent for the whole episode, but I did consider that. I mainly chose episodes where he was in action as Superman though, due to the person saying he has as much personality as the DCEU one did as Superman.


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Old 06-11-2018, 10:06 AM   #478
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Default Re: Why is making a good Superman movie so hard?

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Comfort and Joy is my favorite Superman/Clark episode from the JL/JLU series. Underneath the sometimes stoic exterior of Superman, there was a farm boy who acted, quite literally, like a kid on Christmas. The bathtub scene in BvS reminded me of this side of Superman's personality. Kal has a playful aspect, but he's all business when he puts on the tights.
You are right, there is a kind of playfull aspect in Clark/Superman.
Hereafter was also a great episode.

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Old 06-11-2018, 05:19 PM   #479
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Default Re: Why is making a good Superman movie so hard?

STAS/JLU Superman had personality. It's why the "World Made of Cardboard" speech felt right and the anguished scream after the necksnap felt odd. So much more money had been spent on exploring the world of Man of Steel, but consistent character development was missing. For all the little bits and bops interpreted by fans as subtle storytelling, there are reams of screentime that show how little effect anything has on Kal El's mood and M.O. in the DCEU. Superman in STAS reacts to everything. He's not physically 'vulnerable' but he is always the first to leap into action, and the first to get beat down to let everyone know how serious it is (and so we don't have to see bloody smooshed people in a kids cartoon). His consistent action portrayal and design tell us his story, even when he doesn't have a focus episode.
Can you guess what emotions Clark might feel in this scene:





This is called skilled visual storytelling. Even in hero shots, getting ready for battle, you have this kinda stuff:





The cartoon takes everything it can to communicate who this guy is, fists clenched, ready for action. Man of Steel, just... walks. Vaguely concerned, vaguely confused, vaguely curious, vaguely... whatever you want.

And I'll stop with this pic, because I think this actually goes back to the point:




Here's a classic Superman pose, right? Arms crossed, show himself the guarded powerhouse, an authority figure almost, right... but... his armor is so bulky, he can't even rest his hands like a normal human figure, and so the viewer has to essentially project the idea that is apparently intended onto the picture to get the effect out of it. Because all the trappings of the film take away from what actually makes the character work.


Superman is a character of heart. All the Blockbuster trappings aren't what make him endearing, which is why the janky 78 movie is more universally beloved than the post 2005 version, which is simply not true of any other character. In doing so much to try and 'keep up' with whatever trend, they hamstringed themselves from the actual core appeal of the character.

It's hard to make a good Superman movie because expensive suits and cool action scenes won't get you there like it can with Batman. Jokes and quips and creative CGI action can't either like it can with Iron Man. A faithful origin and competent story won't get you there like it can with Wonder Woman.

For Superman, you have to understand how to subtly, constantly communicate character. To actually do what defenders of MoS think Snyder did. This is what had to happen on STAS and JL/JLU for there to even be a consistent idea of Superman for this generation. And it wasn't because of his focus episodes it's because the artists and writers communicated who he was every moment he was on screen, not just three moments out of a two hour movie.

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Old 06-11-2018, 07:00 PM   #480
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Default Re: Why is making a good Superman movie so hard?

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For all the little bits and bops interpreted by fans as subtle storytelling, there are reams of screentime that show how little effect anything has on Kal El's mood and M.O. in the DCEU.
That's a bold claim not backed up by evidence. From the younger actors portraying a child and teen versions of the characters to Cavill's adult version, we see him react to new things with different expressions to match his mood. The younger actors portray a lot of the insecurity Clark feels as a child who is different and confused about what that means. Cavill's portrayal of older Clark's reactions to finding out about his Kryptonian heritage are full of smiles and excitement (I provided three examples of this earlier in this thread). He shows a similar joy when he is welcomed to the planet by Lois at the end of the film. As for your comparison to the "cardboard" speech from STAS, I thought DCEU Superman said something similar when Zod's protective armor started to malfunction. It had a lot of emotion and weight because he spoke about adjusting to his powers as a child, which we saw in the first scene in the elementary school and heard about from Martha's story about how Clark had a hard time breathing as a baby.

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This is called skilled visual storytelling. Even in hero shots, getting ready for battle, you have this kinda stuff:
Really? Also, why are you relying so much on promotional stills and so focused on battle or fight stances?

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The cartoon takes everything it can to communicate who this guy is, fists clenched, ready for action. Man of Steel, just... walks. Vaguely concerned, vaguely confused, vaguely curious, vaguely... whatever you want.
I recommend not using cherry picked stills from the film and to actually verify your evidence before you say ridiculous things like this. There is nothing vague about Superman in Man of Steel in the scene you're referring to. In fact, it has everything you are asking for at about the hour and a half minutes mark. Here are some visual aids:





The scene is filmed like an old-fashioned Western standoff with Superman telling the frightened civilians to get inside and with Faora and Superman clenching their fists instead of grasping guns.

Quote:
Here's a classic Superman pose, right? Arms crossed, show himself the guarded powerhouse, an authority figure almost, right... but... his armor is so bulky, he can't even rest his hands like a normal human figure, and so the viewer has to essentially project the idea that is apparently intended onto the picture to get the effect out of it. Because all the trappings of the film take away from what actually makes the character work.
This is a promotional poster, not the film, and I think you're exaggerating whatever minuscule effect and import this slight difference in hand placement, that I don't even think is either true or obvious, would have on anyone who sees it. Also, there's this.

Quote:
For Superman, you have to understand how to subtly, constantly communicate character. To actually do what defenders of MoS think Snyder did. This is what had to happen on STAS and JL/JLU for there to even be a consistent idea of Superman for this generation. And it wasn't because of his focus episodes it's because the artists and writers communicated who he was every moment he was on screen, not just three moments out of a two hour movie.
The accuracy and understanding you have for what actually happens in these films and for visual evidence of visual storytelling is so limited that it's hard to view "analysis" like this of yours as credible.

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Old 06-11-2018, 10:36 PM   #481
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Default Re: Why is making a good Superman movie so hard?

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I recommend not using cherry picked stills from the film and to actually verify your evidence before you say ridiculous things like this. There is nothing vague about Superman in Man of Steel in the scene you're referring to. In fact, it has everything you are asking for at about the hour and a half minutes mark. Here are some visual aids:





The scene is filmed like an old-fashioned Western standoff with Superman telling the frightened civilians to get inside and with Faora and Superman clenching their fists instead of grasping guns.
That costume is just gorgeous. The light dances across the symbol and the cape flows with the agitated atmosphere. And that shot of his fist is also a thing of beauty. Viewers knew that serious business was about to go down.

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Old 06-12-2018, 05:50 AM   #482
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Default Re: Why is making a good Superman movie so hard?

Contrary to popular belief, insults and shade don't make me see you as more intelligent. It makes me actually think the opposite. Someone with imagination can keep arguing legitimate points. Insults mask the inability to make them, thus showing a lack of imagination and/or intelligence. Either debate each other civilly without the insults and shade or ignore one another.

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Old 06-12-2018, 06:49 AM   #483
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Default Re: Why is making a good Superman movie so hard?

Why is it so hard ? Because the people in charge don't respect the source material.

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Old 06-12-2018, 10:29 PM   #484
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Default Re: Why is making a good Superman movie so hard?

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Why is it so hard ? Because the people in charge don't respect the source material.
What parts do you feel that they don't respect?

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