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Old 07-29-2018, 12:07 PM   #1
Herofan
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Default Could it have been better

If, instead of Wolverine traveling to his past body, Beast had? Someone who already had been a main character in the predecessor First Class (but who, like Kitty in the comics, was younger than and not the leader Xavier) and so Hoult could have followed that up with a more significant role?

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Old 07-29-2018, 04:13 PM   #2
Frankeh
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Default Re: Could it have been better

Nicholas Hoult’s Beast absolutely cannot carry an X-Men movie. You need a charismatic character for that.

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Old 07-29-2018, 05:29 PM   #3
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Default Re: Could it have been better

Sure. There is always room for improvement!

Hugh Jackman as the time traveler was perfect. The problem was the one who projected his consciousness back into the past, which should have been the telepath Professor X, not Kitty Pryde. It's usually the telepaths that place their hands around a person's head that way and it makes sense for it to have been an extension of Charles' mental manipulation powers, not Kitty's phasing powers.

Kitty Pryde and Rogue should have gotten in on the Sentinel Action, even if Rogue had been filmed separate from most of the cast; it would have been the perfect place to use Rogue as Repear like in Age of X. And Mystique should have died after repenting and changing the future.

The ending should have set up X-Men 5: Apocalypse featuring the original cast and any prequel films that came after that one should have focused on the creation of the Brotherhood and the X-Men in the past; the prequels should have been something by-the-book and simple.

After X5: Apocalypse and Logan (what we got for Old Man Logan was good), they could have proceeded with only part of the original cast (Cyke, Rogue, Shadowcat, Magneto) and maybe some recasts as well as new characters like X-23, Gambit, Emma Frost, Cable, Psylocke, Sinister etc. to make X6: Asteroid M (about Magneto's mutant nation) and X7: Messiah Complex and X8: Second Coming (the Biblical story of Moses told in a sci-fi X-Men Universe).


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Old 07-29-2018, 07:24 PM   #4
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Default Re: Could it have been better

I guess X5-X7 above wouldn't be bad ideas for fan fiction either.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Asteroid M is important in the comics. It's where they open the run X-Men (1991) and its remains eventually became the X-Men's home on Earth (which is where they are headquartered in Messiash Complex, Second Coming). They could have combined Whedon's run with the plot for X-Men Legends I (the game), introduced an advanced version of the Danger Room, had Emma Frost betray them half-way (like in the comics), take away Scott's powers, have the X-Mansion destroyed and eventually fly out to space to stop Magneto/the Asteroid (like the game). It's a nice send off for Ian McKellen and a nice send off for Ellen Page who dies in the comics phasing a giant projectile headed for Earth (or at least she's written out for a while). She could die phasing the asteroid back to or through Earth somehow for it to become the island Utopia. That would lead up to a two part conclusion Messiah Complex/Second Coming.

That's my crazy fan version of what could have been. : P

I will have to reiterate I am still catching up on the comics and I have been loving it.


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Old 07-29-2018, 07:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: Could it have been better

I agree Apocalypse should have been set in the future, or at least present day. The idea of an ancient mutant making a comeback makes less sense when the movie is set in the past instead of our time IMO.

Plus, building him up as the strongest foe yet for the X-Men also makes you think he should be showing off against veterans, not newbies Cyclops, Jean Grey and Nightcrawler. Not to mention that half of the movie is also wasted setting up characters instead of giving Apocalypse something substantial to do.

But what's done is done.

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Old 07-29-2018, 08:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Could it have been better

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Originally Posted by Frankeh View Post
I agree Apocalypse should have been set in the future, or at least present day. The idea of an ancient mutant making a comeback makes less sense when the movie is set in the past instead of our time IMO.

Plus, building him up as the strongest foe yet for the X-Men also makes you think he should be showing off against veterans, not newbies Cyclops, Jean Grey and Nightcrawler. Not to mention that half of the movie is also wasted setting up characters instead of giving Apocalypse something substantial to do.

But what's done is done.
I agree. Something I really liked about Singer's work for DOFP was he was setting up the universe to the point of embedding fictional mutant events into history (or vice versa), and part of his marketing / treat for the fans was a timeline of how mutants shaped modern history; there's stuff on Abe Lincoln, Cuba, JFK... it's great. But it got lost with Apocalypse which is where Singer seemed to have disappeared.

Anyway, it makes sense to have continued down a historical route with the prequels (both in terms of American/World history and the X-Men's history) and use new stories for the original cast in the future.

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Old 07-29-2018, 10:11 PM   #7
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I know people are gonna disagree with me on this since some prefer the Rogue Cut over the theatrical version but the Rogue Cut is what happens when the creatives (Singer and Kinberg) only care about certain actors and their favourite characters. It means it's quite easy--relatively speaking--to remove secondary, tertiary characters off of movies. In this case, Ottman was able to retell Days of Future Past without Rogue in it.

Kinberg, at the run up to the release of the Rogue Cut has said braggadociously (word of the day!) that he came up the idea of Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen, the old guys he calls them, having one last adventure together.

The hack probably worked backwards from there, unfortunately tagging Rogue (and Bobby) along for his stupid side story. Kinberg's idea of "old" Professor Xavier's and "old" Magneto's "adventure together" meant they were apart the entire time, talking to each other telepathically. The two thesps probably acted against each other a maximum of 5 seconds in the X-Jet once Magneto (and Bobby) recovered Rogue. Meaning the purpose of coming up with the scene--showing off Picard's and Gandalf's acting prowesses against each other--was for naught.

Even for his best reviewed film, Kinberg still finds a way to mess it up.

I might not have been *that* impressed with the theatrical cut of DOFP (X2 is still the best X-men film), but the theatrical cut is a stronger film than the Rogue Cut. And that's coming from a Rogue fan.

I'm not sure I answered the thread topic but it feels good to get that off my chest.

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The Montreal crew called it simonizing. Any non-sensical things that showed up in the script where their scriptwriter was simonizing had to be cleaned up and/or corrected either on shooting day or during the editing stage.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:52 AM   #8
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Default Re: Could it have been better

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnDz0n3 View Post
I know people are gonna disagree with me on this since some prefer the Rogue Cut over the theatrical version but the Rogue Cut is what happens when the creatives (Singer and Kinberg) only care about certain actors and their favourite characters. It means it's quite easy--relatively speaking--to remove secondary, tertiary characters off of movies. In this case, Ottman was able to retell Days of Future Past without Rogue in it.

Kinberg, at the run up to the release of the Rogue Cut has said braggadociously (word of the day!) that he came up the idea of Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen, the old guys he calls them, having one last adventure together.

The hack probably worked backwards from there, unfortunately tagging Rogue (and Bobby) along for his stupid side story. Kinberg's idea of "old" Professor Xavier's and "old" Magneto's "adventure together" meant they were apart the entire time, talking to each other telepathically. The two thesps probably acted against each other a maximum of 5 seconds in the X-Jet once Magneto (and Bobby) recovered Rogue. Meaning the purpose of coming up with the scene--showing off Picard's and Gandalf's acting prowesses against each other--was for naught.

Even for his best reviewed film, Kinberg still finds a way to mess it up.

I might not have been *that* impressed with the theatrical cut of DOFP (X2 is still the best X-men film), but the theatrical cut is a stronger film than the Rogue Cut. And that's coming from a Rogue fan.

I'm not sure I answered the thread topic but it feels good to get that off my chest.
Rogue should have absolutely been absorbing powers to fend off the Sentinels at the temple to make up for her entire trilogy no having ANY action scenes. AT the minimum she should have tried fighting off the Sentinels to save Bobby to no avail.

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Old 08-06-2018, 10:21 AM   #9
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Default Re: Could it have been better

Unfortunately her limited scheduled filming time was already wasted lying down on a slab inside the Danger Room waiting to be rescued, and once rescued her only action and dialogue was shouting “Bobby!”

Due in large part to Kinberg’s botched “Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen rescue mission.” Singer should’ve told him his idea was dumb, and maybe they could’ve improved her role, if not during the scripting stage then maybe during filming day. Singer and Kinberg and Ratner and Vaughn also had their favourite characters so they had this mentality of “To hell with you if you’re not my fave! You’ll have one line if you’re lucky.”

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The Montreal crew called it simonizing. Any non-sensical things that showed up in the script where their scriptwriter was simonizing had to be cleaned up and/or corrected either on shooting day or during the editing stage.
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Old 08-11-2018, 05:11 PM   #10
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Default Re: Could it have been better

I think the real subplot they could have added to the future section was a last stand against the Sentinels (maybe add Master Mold as the central brain for them) in case the time travel didn't work, like in the comic book. Instead of a rescue mission for Rogue.

I also think it would've been better if an X-Men team was actually assembled in the past, as the movie is, it feels like it lacks X-Men dynamics for an X-Men movie. Maybe don't kill off the First Class characters and have Charles reassemble them? Instead they are deemed expendable because only Magneto matters to convince Mystique to stop from murdering.

Trask should have been fleshed out a bit? He feels like a guest star, William Stryker in X2 actually had understandable motivations and resentment.

I would definitely amp up the sentinel screentime as well.

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Old 08-13-2018, 09:47 AM   #11
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^What would you cut in order to have more sentinel and Trask screentime or would you just push the studio to let the film be longer?

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Old 08-15-2018, 10:21 PM   #12
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Default Re: Could it have been better

The movie as is isn't that long. only a little over 2 hours. I think you could get about 10-15 extra minutes in there of stuff. But I think having Magneto in prison is kinda weak, so take that rescue away. Work out another story there. I find the Xavier takes drugs that take away his powers and make him unable to walk not make sense. I'd prefer Beast to not be Hulk like. And don't spend so much time talking about how special Raven is.

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