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Old 10-03-2016, 11:56 PM   #1
JackRackum
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Default Batcat

This thread is simply meant to discuss the portrayal of Batcat on Gotham. I'm a huge Batman and Catwoman fan, so naturally I'd be a fan of them together. Both David and Camren are doing a great job, so most of what I'll be talking about will involve writing and dialogue.

Personally, I saw a lot of promise early in season 1 when they first met. Selina was flirty, but mostly as way of getting under Bruce's skin and for her own self-amusement. Bruce was very flat, naive and nervous with her. Usually in other media, Bruce is sarcastic and deadpan with her, but he's a lot younger in Gotham so it's understandable. However, just like in the comics, she's the one making all the moves.

The initial dynamic between them was great, however this derailed because instead of maintaining this dynamic, the writers chose to use them to drive forward the plot instead of plot being forced on them from the outside. This usually came in the form of Bruce using Selina for his own gain. It's always about Wayne enterprises or Indian Hill, and what Bruce needed Selina to do for him. I don't blame Selina for calling him a selfish SOB.

On top of that, we rarely see them simply enjoying each other's company. It's always drama or business between them. Rarely do they engage each other without an agenda. It's gotten to the point where I ask myself, why are these people friends? Sometimes, they feel like outright strangers.

Thinking more on that, I realize that every time they meet, it's as if they're strangers. Beyond the reasons stated above, I think this has to do with the fact that there's never any resolution to the drama between them. Take the latest episode for instance, 3x3 - last time I checked, Selina was mad at Bruce, but all that is thrown out the window, and their relationship is rebooted, but the intimacy degrades into more drama within the span of a couple seconds. Somewhere in there they also shared an intimate moment, but it felt like an intimate moment between strangers. Lack of happy moments coupled with a lack of drama-resolution will leave you with that impression.

Another perfect example is in season 2 when they lived together, supposedly very happily though god forbid we ever see that, and then they "broke up." Why the split? Apparently, Bruce was all hung up on Selina's safety, but what happened immediately the following episode? All of that is thrown out the window when Bruce needs her to do something dangerous for him in Indian Hill. It quickly becomes apparent that there is no reason to care. There are no stakes in this relationship.

Someone put the idea in the heads of the writers that the Batcat dynamic is all about drama, but that couldn't be further from the truth. It's about two flawed individuals complimenting each other. Selina brings levity and mental stability into Bruce's life, and Bruce challenges her and makes her strive for better. The drama comes from the fact that they're both very attached to their lifestyles and aren't willing to compromise.

Anyways, I'd like to know you're thoughts on it?


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Old 10-05-2016, 10:54 AM   #2
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One theory I have for the relationship-reboot and lack of drama-resolution problems is that the writers of Gotham are Guggenheiming Batcat by simply exploiting their fanbase. In their, the writers' minds, the only moments worth showing are the drama-heavy moments that get the shippers gushing. Everything is being filtered out using a cost/benefit filter. I could be wrong, of course.


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Old 10-07-2016, 04:11 AM   #3
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Another issue, a purist one, is that their dynamic on Gotham is nothing like their dynamic in the comics. In the comics, Selina adds levity and emotional stability to Bruce's life, while Bruce challenges her and inspires her to strive for better in life. We saw this in season 1, but not so much afterwards.

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Old 10-07-2016, 06:15 AM   #4
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Default Re: Batcat

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Another issue, a purist one, is that their dynamic on Gotham is nothing like their dynamic in the comics. In the comics, Selina adds levity and emotional stability to Bruce's life, while Bruce challenges her and inspires her to strive for better in life. We saw this in season 1, but not so much afterwards.
In the comics Selina is more of a jokester and takes more glee in being bad and teasing the Bat. Kind of like she was in The Dark Knight Rises too. But maybe because she is older and has learned to have fun.
In think right now Selina is still sort of bewildered by all the insanity going on around her.

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Old 10-07-2016, 11:01 AM   #5
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In the comics Selina is more of a jokester and takes more glee in being bad and teasing the Bat. Kind of like she was in The Dark Knight Rises too. But maybe because she is older and has learned to have fun.
In think right now Selina is still sort of bewildered by all the insanity going on around her.
That's possible. I mean we do see shades of Selina having a sense of humor. Usually a rather mean sense of humor, but still. The same could be said about Bruce. In other media, Batman has a sense of humor, though it's usually extremely dry, deadpan, and even arrogant.


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Old 10-18-2016, 04:28 PM   #6
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ZOMG, these last few episodes are fixing most of the problems I had with them on Gotham!


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Old 10-18-2016, 04:41 PM   #7
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They're kinda kicking ass and taking names right now...

The last episode's discussion we literally see the dismantling of the layers of Bruce's way of relating to Selina. The first layer, as he's too scared to say what he wants, is going with the old adage of "asking for or offering help". When that doesn't work, he goes into prepared-speech mode. Only when Selina shuts him down and he can't intellectualize it anymore we get the honest, simple truth. Glorious.

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Old 10-20-2016, 05:28 PM   #8
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They're kinda kicking ass and taking names right now...

The last episode's discussion we literally see the dismantling of the layers of Bruce's way of relating to Selina. The first layer, as he's too scared to say what he wants, is going with the old adage of "asking for or offering help". When that doesn't work, he goes into prepared-speech mode. Only when Selina shuts him down and he can't intellectualize it anymore we get the honest, simple truth. Glorious.
Yah, I just got done reading your post on your tumblr page: http://kathemy.tumblr.com/post/15207...a-helping-hand Really brilliant analysis. It all makes so much sense now, and I trust the writers a lot more. It's shame more people aren't capable of seeing all this depth that's beneath Gotham's surface.

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Old 10-20-2016, 06:26 PM   #9
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Thank you

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Old 10-20-2016, 09:37 PM   #10
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Thank you
One question though. Can you make sense of Camren and David's statements in this interview: http://www.newsarama.com/30817-backs...otham-set.html

Specifically the part where Camren says I think Selina will realize Bruce is not what she needs and I say that because of what will happen later in the season and Im excited for that to happen. I love working with David, but I think Selina deep down in her core depends on Bruce, but when they part ways again, shell have to depend on herself and Im super excited to see that.

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Old 10-21-2016, 05:50 AM   #11
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Well, David's statement about how their relationship is "past trading intel for shelter" sort of echoes with my own.

Camren's statement simply looks like they'll break up for some reason later this season. That was always to be expected; the idea that Catwoman and Batman would get together and stay together for life when they were 16 is pretty silly. It's interesting that she says that "deep down in her core Selina depends on Bruce", because the show hasn't really shown much of that - that's a problem with not giving her enough perspective.

Selina realizing Bruce "isn't what she needs" could be for any number of reasons, but most likely it's something to do with her "trip to the dark side", and we have no way of knowing what will bring that on. I just hope they give her a reason for it and don't do season one finale character assassination. That way she'd probably be annoyed having a "rich goody-two-shoes boyfriend" constantly calling her on her amoral behavior. Or maybe it's something to do with her thinking she doesn't want a safety net. She'll be back tho, she always will. For various reasons I think it highly unlikely their breakup will come because they figure out "we just don't love each other anymore."

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Old 10-21-2016, 08:38 AM   #12
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PS there's also the possibility that Bruce will start drinking and partying and become "carefree" and Selina won't see the boy she fell in love with anymore so she'll call it quits only to slide back into crime. DS

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Old 10-21-2016, 09:38 AM   #13
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PS there's also the possibility that Bruce will start drinking and partying and become "carefree" and Selina won't see the boy she fell in love with anymore so she'll call it quits only to slide back into crime. DS
I think maybe the reason Selina and Bruce break up again is related to her mother. Anyway they'll get back together soon because Camren and David filmed a scene together earlier this month for episode 10, and they filmed a rooftop scene for episode 11 together on Wednesday (with Sean Pertwee). Of course I can't tell whether David played Bruce or Five but he had Bruce hair.

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Old 10-21-2016, 09:50 AM   #14
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I think Camren may be referring to material later in the season. That said, of course they'll get back together in some fashion. The show isn't stupid enough not to realize they have a gold mine in these kids. I think we're getting, say, a six to ten episode arc of Selina getting into some shady business and then she'll be back to Bruce. I mean, unless they reintroduce Silver or (the horror) hook him up with Ivy, then it might take longer.

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Old 10-22-2016, 07:31 AM   #15
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Old 10-22-2016, 03:41 PM   #16
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Is that Bruce or Thomas? Also, why is he holding a crossbow?

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Old 10-22-2016, 07:46 PM   #17
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I don't know and I don't know which episode it's from, but I think it's Bruce. They mentioned Lucius making some gadgets for him. I'm assuming it's a "wartime" episode; we should get some more action stuff with these two this season.

If you wanna get more into "hints" and "symbolism" (which I don't necessarily subscribe to but w/e) the crossbow is the preferred weapon of Helena Wayne AKA Huntress who is the daughter of Bruce and Selina...

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Old 11-17-2016, 12:30 AM   #18
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Default Re: Batcat

Ivy "Oh my God! You two are a couple now?"
Selina/Bruce "No. Yes."
Puzzled look by Bruce "We're not?"

2 cute.

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Old 01-25-2017, 12:37 AM   #19
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there was a BatCat dynamic just this ep 13th, didja see it?

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Old 01-25-2017, 01:19 AM   #20
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Yeah, I devoted half my review to it.

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Old 01-25-2017, 06:07 AM   #21
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Default Re: Batcat

That scene with Selina and Bruce in episode 13 was terrific foreshadowing for things to come.

Also, David Mazouz is really growing into the role.

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Old 01-25-2017, 06:14 AM   #22
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I really don't understand the people on reddit and other places complaining about Bruce and Selina's fights being boring and repetitive.

Actually I do understand. I understand that they understand nothing about their relationship.

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Old 01-26-2017, 04:47 PM   #23
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They were amazing last episode.

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Old 03-16-2017, 06:41 AM   #24
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Got bored. Made wallpaper.



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