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Old 05-21-2016, 09:24 PM   #51
Jaxon
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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The movie should have made more of an effort to explain that Tony was after Peter's webbing to aid Team Stark in locking down Team Cap. Perhaps even foreshadow Stark's investigation into the "Spiderman" a little earlier in the film.

Unfortunately all we got was him showing up at the apartment and then dropping a quick blurb about the webbing's holding capacity being off the charts.
The whole set up was dumb. Tony says "we need more firepower" or something, can't remember the exact line. Why? Iron Man and War Machine would completely own Cap, Falcon, and Bucky. IM can seemingly build suits overnight, he has the materials, the tech, everything to pump out more suits as he needs instead of finding some little kid. It was just stupid and only fools the audience due to RDJ's acting and Spiderman being funny. But it's bad story telling.

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Old 05-21-2016, 09:29 PM   #52
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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The whole set up was dumb. Tony says "we need more firepower" or something, can't remember the exact line. Why? Iron Man and War Machine would completely own Cap, Falcon, and Bucky. IM can seemingly build suits overnight, he has the materials, the tech, everything to pump out more suits as he needs instead of finding some little kid. It was just stupid and only fools the audience due to RDJ's acting and Spiderman being funny. But it's bad story telling.
It's not bad storytelling at all. I could say the exact same thing about Batman halting in his tracks from delivering the killing blow on Superman in BvS, something he had been planning for a LONG time, just because Superman has a mom who shares the same name as his mom (one of the cheesiest moments I've seen in a superhero film, by the way, and this is coming from someone whose all time favourite superhero is Batman).

It's all about suspension of disbelief and that's going to come more naturally for fans of the franchise.

And regarding your point, both Iron Man and War Machine's firepower are irrelevant because they're obviously not going to be using heavy artillery. They're not out to blow Cap and his friends to smithereens. He's referring more to man power. He knows he and Black Widow will need the numbers. Remember, he only wants Spider-Man to web them down. Nothing more.

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Old 05-22-2016, 02:17 AM   #53
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

I actually felt myself quite bored with certain spots, it seemed either super slow or just straight action. Pacing was not what I had hoped for. Same with BvS actually.

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Old 05-22-2016, 02:55 AM   #54
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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just because Superman has a mom who shares the same name as his mom (one of the cheesiest moments I've seen in a superhero film, by the way, and this is coming from someone whose all time favourite superhero is Batman).
I dont understand people see it in this simplistic way. (Like a lot of things in BvS actually, IMO.) There is much more to it than what meets the eye/ear... http://forums.superherohype.com/show...&postcount=383

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And regarding your point, both Iron Man and War Machine's firepower are irrelevant because they're obviously not going to be using heavy artillery. They're not out to blow Cap and his friends to smithereens. He's referring more to man power. He knows he and Black Widow will need the numbers. Remember, he only wants Spider-Man to web them down. Nothing more.
Like one guy on a different forum said... "The Civil War feels more like Civil Brawl."

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Old 05-22-2016, 03:16 AM   #55
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

I'm surprised the x-boards didn't make similar thread like this. Maybe there will be many arguments pointing out the flaw in their film if this similar thread were made there. People there are very insecure and even always defendef all the flaw with "context of the film" excuses. But when the context of the film itself was weak and too many flaws why it can't be criticized? It seems like the can't accept their context of the film itself is weak. I want to put this there but i knew the will ignore it.

I love civil war very2 much and watching it 5 times already, but i have few complaints but it actually understanable:
- tony unable to be reasoned with. I knew he is the toned down version of his jerk comicbook personality, but soom after just realise he's been played by zemo he's becoming unable to think clearly after seeing footage of his parent murdered
-spidey doesn't understand the conflict between 2 sides

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Old 05-22-2016, 03:04 PM   #56
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

Tony not caring that he was under mind control and the fight continuing was about as dumb as Martha being the reason Batman and Superman's fight ended.

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Old 05-22-2016, 07:25 PM   #57
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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tony not caring that he was under mind control and the fight continuing was about as dumb as martha being the reason batman and superman's fight ended.
why did you say that name????

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Old 05-22-2016, 07:43 PM   #58
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

My only gripe is its never really explained how Stark found out Peter was Spider-Man.

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Old 05-22-2016, 09:07 PM   #59
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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It's not bad storytelling at all. I could say the exact same thing about Batman halting in his tracks from delivering the killing blow on Superman in BvS, something he had been planning for a LONG time, just because Superman has a mom who shares the same name as his mom (one of the cheesiest moments I've seen in a superhero film, by the way, and this is coming from someone whose all time favourite superhero is Batman).

It's all about suspension of disbelief and that's going to come more naturally for fans of the franchise.

And regarding your point, both Iron Man and War Machine's firepower are irrelevant because they're obviously not going to be using heavy artillery. They're not out to blow Cap and his friends to smithereens. He's referring more to man power. He knows he and Black Widow will need the numbers. Remember, he only wants Spider-Man to web them down. Nothing more.
If you think Batman stops killing because of the name Martha then I completely understand why you like Civil War.

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Old 05-22-2016, 09:22 PM   #60
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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If you think Batman stops killing because of the name Martha then I completely understand why you like Civil War.
Believe me, I get the reason why. Superman telling Batman to save his mother, who happens to also be named Martha, humanizes him in Batman's eyes. I do get it. It's just still cheesy. Batman is filled with hatred for Superman. Even though Superman having a mother who is in danger is not something to be taken lightly, it still doesn't seem like something big enough to stop Batman in his tracks, given how far he has come, how consumed he is with hatred for Superman.

Again, I do get it. It was just the wrong way to go about stopping that fight and having them suddenly team up. Even if there's logic and weight behind it, it still took me out right out of the scene. I mean, it was a mere minute between Batman ruthlessly beating Superman to a pulp and suddenly patting him on the chest and saying "Don't worry, I'll save your mother". A few people in my theatre even looked at eachother and kind of laughed. I could sense it in the whole theatre, this sort of letdown after such an intense sequence (I loved the actual fight, by the way. Affleck played it great. I could feel the sheer rage but also vindication Batman was feeling in totally having his way with his enemy).

Anyway, my whole point was that I could easily sit here and call that bad storytelling too.


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Old 05-22-2016, 10:13 PM   #61
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

can you guys please not openly discuss spoilers for another film in here? Thanks

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Old 05-22-2016, 10:18 PM   #62
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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can you guys please not openly discuss spoilers for another film in here? Thanks
I apologize. I know how annoying that can be. However, if you haven't seen the movie by now that's nobody's fault but your own. I think we can discuss things about a movie that opened 2 months ago openly at this point.

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Old 05-22-2016, 11:30 PM   #63
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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Believe me, I get the reason why. Superman telling Batman to save his mother, who happens to also be named Martha, humanizes him in Batman's eyes. I do get it. It's just still cheesy.
Truth.

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Old 05-23-2016, 03:58 AM   #64
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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I apologize. I know how annoying that can be. However, if you haven't seen the movie by now that's nobody's fault but your own. I think we can discuss things about a movie that opened 2 months ago openly at this point.
It is my fault in that I chose not to go see it after critics panned it. Alot of people (including myself), wont see films until they reach dvd/blu-ray and that wont happen for another 2 months. The movie just had its first release this spring and isnt out in home media yet. Its not like its been years. Open discussion for said films should happen in their respective threads, not elsewhere


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Old 05-23-2016, 07:28 AM   #65
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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First off, cut the condescension. It doesn't make you seem smart or witty, it makes you seem rude and defensive. I made a perfectly logical request, which was for you to explain your views, and if you feel that threatened by a simple question that you need to respond in such a manner, you may want to rethink posting in the forums, because it will happen more than once. I also don't believe I said anything to you that necessitated that kind of response. If I did post something that you construed as insulting, then I apologize. It wasn't my intention, but I don't appreciate needless antagonistic responses either. We're on here to talk about the genre we love, not trade rude comments.

Secondly, I'm glad you did explain yourself, because as I've said before, in the many posts I had read from you, you hadn't. You only made generalized statements and left it at that. I don't agree with many of your assessments, but at least you described them.

I do find it odd that you don't want to discuss them...since that is the entire point of these forums, so I'm a bit confused as to why you would actually want to post about it at all. I know, at least from my perspective, the reason I enjoy coming on here is to talk about my opinions and see how others differ from them. Sometimes they make good points and it changes my perspective. But to come onto the boards with the mindset of "this is what I think I will never change!" Seems a bit...well...pointless. It's a discussion forum, and to discuss, we do talk about our views on these characters that we love. Not a statement forum where we show up, say what we think and leave it at that. That's a bit boring in my opinion. But to each their own.

But thank you for expounding on your opinions. If you'd like to debate them, feel free, because I think there are many story subplots you've overlooked or are simplifying.
I don't want to discuss them? I am discussing them. I just don't have time to respond to everyone who doesn't agree with me or to go into detail about why i don't like something everytime i say i don't like something. Not that i don't like CW. Like i said before, i actually enjoyed it. It's just not what i would call a great movie. TDK is what i would call a great movie. Everything else is pretty much two leagues below. But hey, even TDK is a little bit overrated IMO.

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Old 05-23-2016, 08:04 AM   #66
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

I'm not sure if the protagonists being irresponsible, stubborn or even somewhat egoistical can really be considered a "flaw" of the movie.
I mean... this is a story where the heroes end up beating the crap out of each other, there are bound to happen some things that instigate and fuel the conflict, otherwise the movie wouldn't even exist.

That's why the heroes acting like, you know, flawed human beings is fine by me, as long as they are kept in-character and they don't turn into murderous a**holes. Nope, I'm totally not talking about Batman here.


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Old 05-23-2016, 08:07 AM   #67
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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I actually felt myself quite bored with certain spots, it seemed either super slow or just straight action. Pacing was not what I had hoped for. Same with BvS actually.
I agree. Civil War didn't have that same, perfect balance that The Winter Soldier had in being engaging throughout, with enough action placed at the perfect moments and a sufficiently, interesting story to keep the viewer's attention at all times.

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Old 05-23-2016, 08:43 AM   #68
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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Tony not caring that he was under mind control and the fight continuing was about as dumb as Martha being the reason Batman and Superman's fight ended.
Tony just finding out the guy killed his mom....mind control or not.....was not a silly reason

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Old 05-23-2016, 10:10 AM   #69
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

Tony not caring in the moment was understandable. He just watched his parents' murder, it's not dumb or implausible that he would lose it and lash out in a blind rage.

Earlier in the movie, Tony was helping make arrangements for Bucky to be sent to a US psychiatric hospital for rehabilitation instead of prison, so he "gets it" that Bucky needs/deserves help more than punishment when he's thinking straight....but he wasn't thinking straight in that scene, and it was understandable why.

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Old 05-23-2016, 11:17 AM   #70
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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I agree. Civil War didn't have that same, perfect balance that The Winter Soldier had in being engaging throughout, with enough action placed at the perfect moments and a sufficiently, interesting story to keep the viewer's attention at all times.
TWS was way more focused in its story. New characters are introduced near the beginning, and you follow their arcs all the way to the end.

CW only "worked" because we come in already liking the characters, and see them doing some pretty awesome stuff, no matter how little screentime they have. And I still maintain the middle (with Spider-Man) would have completely crashed and burned without Tom Holland's endearing charm. But TWS is definitely the better constructed film.

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Tony not caring in the moment was understandable. He just watched his parents' murder, it's not dumb or implausible that he would lose it and lash out in a blind rage.

Earlier in the movie, Tony was helping make arrangements for Bucky to be sent to a US psychiatric hospital for rehabilitation instead of prison, so he "gets it" that Bucky needs/deserves help more than punishment when he's thinking straight....but he wasn't thinking straight in that scene, and it was understandable why.
Steve even tries to reason with Tony, to stop him from doing something he might regret later, then tries to restrain him or stop him from hurting Bucky. He only resorts to actively beating on Tony, to hurt him, when Tony beats on him first.

What CW does well is also establish that Tony has a lot of regrets (that may prove troublesome down the line), and that he can be emotionally rash. His reaction doesn't come out of thin air.

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Old 05-23-2016, 12:20 PM   #71
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

I thought it was ridiculous how Tony's parents murder was not only video recorded but that Zemo had a copy of it

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Old 05-23-2016, 12:55 PM   #72
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I thought it was ridiculous how Tony's parents murder was not only video recorded but that Zemo had a copy of it
Zemo had to go to Siberia to get the tape (that was why he needed to know the location of the Siberian base). I imagine HYDRA confiscated it to retain for analysis and/or training purposes on the Winter Soldier program.

As for why there was security camera that caught it? There was some type of gate or fence where the Stark's crashed - I imagine the camera was monitoring the perimeter of whatever building or facility was there (possibly a SHIELD facility/Howard's location for dropping off the serum?)

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Old 05-23-2016, 12:58 PM   #73
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That sounds so convenient and contrived though. How would he even know about that? I've only seen this once so don't know if that was actually addressed

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Old 05-23-2016, 01:10 PM   #74
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

I still don't understand why Steve never told Tony about his parents' murder if he didn't know it was Bucky.

Come of think of it, if Steve knew, then so did Natasha. And yet.

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Old 05-23-2016, 02:22 PM   #75
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques - Part 1

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Tony not caring in the moment was understandable. He just watched his parents' murder, it's not dumb or implausible that he would lose it and lash out in a blind rage.

Earlier in the movie, Tony was helping make arrangements for Bucky to be sent to a US psychiatric hospital for rehabilitation instead of prison, so he "gets it" that Bucky needs/deserves help more than punishment when he's thinking straight....but he wasn't thinking straight in that scene, and it was understandable why.
Tony's emotional state was also being chipped away at throughout the film. Pepper leaving him, the run in with the woman at MIT, trying to hold the team together but it's falling apart, nearly losing Rhodey - all tee-ing him up for that biggest gut-punch with the video.

Same with Cap, losing Peggy and the team falling apart makes him fight that much harder for Bucky.

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