The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > TV Series > Iron Fist

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-25-2016, 03:28 PM   #51
TheVileOne
Side-Kick
 
TheVileOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: California
Posts: 53,180
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Raven View Post
I thought Marvel are normally the ones to make the announcements for these Netflix series. Wasn't that the case with DD, JJ and Luke Cage?
Usually they like to be the ones to make the announcements, but it seems some other outlets managed to get the word out first.

Just saying, those outlets are not clickbait fansites. They have good track records.

__________________
"This is true. This is real. This . . . Is . . . Straight Edge."

- CM Punk
TheVileOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 03:29 PM   #52
pr0xyt0xin
Shaper Savant
 
pr0xyt0xin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 7,055
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

If things weren't how they are, it would indeed kind of be interesting to see Danny Rand be a third or fourth generation asian-american, thrust back into his ancestral home he no longer has any ties to. But in this regard he could be black, latino, native american or jewish. It truly would not matter.

Because i'd say its a defining trait of Danny's origin to be a fish out of water. But that doesnt mean he has to be white. He has just been historically white.

__________________
Black Panther 8.5 | Avengers: Infinity War 10.0 | Deadpool 2 8.0 | Ant-Man and the Wasp X.X | Venom X.X | Aquaman X.X

Tradition is just dead people's baggage.
pr0xyt0xin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 03:34 PM   #53
chamber-music
Infinity Ammo
 
chamber-music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 34,137
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by T"Challa View Post
This was always going to be a lose/lose situation for Marvel. the character is great but at the same time very problematic.

My main issue has always been that tiresome trope of a white dude going into another culture, submerging himself in it, and somehow emerging as the best that culture has to offer. Its the same reason why The Last Samurai was such a face-palmer for a lot of people despite the movie being pretty solid.
In the comics Danny became really good at marital arts because he was motivated to get revenge on Harold Meacham for his parents deaths. Danny pushed himself harder than everyone else which is why he got so good. It was never that he was simply better because he was white.

It also worth remembering that he is only one of the seven Immortal weapons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verick808 View Post
It's not like the opposite isn't true in Asia. As someone who's watched a lot of Asian films and dramas it isn't uncommon for someone to go train or study in America and come back as the greatest doctor/agent/detective/whatever. There are two Asians on the main cast of AoS. And Iron fist is definitely going to add some more.
If you really want to avoid tropes you should have asked for a Latino actor. Then we could have the Latino savior. Better yet make him Chamorro. Has there ever been a Chamorro comic book character? No and you don't hear me ****ing.
A western immersing themselves in Asian culture and becoming extremely skilled isn't even a unusual concept in really life.

Look at Steven Seagal.

Seagal started learning aikido under master Harry Kiyoshi Ishisaka as a kid. At 19 he moved to Japan continued training under various masters and became a master (dan) in aikido. Seagal became first foreigner to operate an aikido dojo in Japan.

__________________
All aboard the Pork Chop Express!
chamber-music is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 03:38 PM   #54
Monochron
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,171
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
What if a white actor is represented as more than just a kung-fu expert and "mighty whitey?"
The mighty whitey trope is still the fundamental problem. It can't be eliminated if the main lead is white.

It's the same problem as in films like The Last Samurai and The Last of the Mohicans.

Monochron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 03:41 PM   #55
Blackman
C'mon Son
 
Blackman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 24,717
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

I'd have more of a problem with the Mighty Whitey trope if it wasn't the source material. I mean if you have a problem with it in the comics as well as the show then okay.

But getting mad at the casting because of the trope is silly especially considering that you shouldve seen it coming.

Blackman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 03:41 PM   #56
TheVileOne
Side-Kick
 
TheVileOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: California
Posts: 53,180
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorson View Post
The mighty whitey trope is still the fundamental problem. It can't be eliminated if the main lead is white.

It's the same problem as in films like The Last Samurai and The Last of the Mohicans.
Except this is an actual Marvel comic hero. And this the source material has always had Danny Rand as a white character.

Thorson, when you get right down to it, there's no reason the likes of Doctor Strange and Daredevil and Ant-Man couldn't be a minority or Asian American either and yet no one says anything when these roles are cast.

__________________
"This is true. This is real. This . . . Is . . . Straight Edge."

- CM Punk
TheVileOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 03:42 PM   #57
TheVileOne
Side-Kick
 
TheVileOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: California
Posts: 53,180
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackman View Post
I'd have more of a problem with the Mighty Whitey trope if it wasn't the source material. I mean if you have a problem with it in the comics as well as the show then okay.

But getting mad at the casting because of the trope is silly especially considering that you shouldve seen it coming
Doesn't the fact that Iron Fist has a relationship with Luke Cage or that they will depict that means they could address these issues head on?

__________________
"This is true. This is real. This . . . Is . . . Straight Edge."

- CM Punk
TheVileOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 03:44 PM   #58
Blackman
C'mon Son
 
Blackman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 24,717
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
Doesn't the fact that Iron Fist has a relationship with Luke Cage or that they will depict that means they could address these issues head on?
I mean I guess. I dont know why you're quoting/asking me. I dont know or care because the "mighty whitey" thing doesnt bother me in this scenario

Blackman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 03:49 PM   #59
Monochron
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,171
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
Except this is an actual Marvel comic hero. And this the source material has always had Danny Rand as a white character.
Yes and sadly from its very start it was a fundamentally problematic concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
Thorson, when you get right down to it, there's no reason the likes of Doctor Strange and Daredevil and Ant-Man couldn't be a minority or Asian American either and yet no one says anything when these roles are cast.
The story of Ant-Man and Daredevil are not examples of the trope we are discussing. With Dr. Strange there is an argument to be made but nowhere near as strong as with Iron Fist.

Monochron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 03:54 PM   #60
Stark Bauer
Wants 2b cast as Darkhawk
 
Stark Bauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto The Good
Posts: 1,144
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Finn Jones reaction to the Internet also applies to Iron Fist casting



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvoRkiEW1WY&app=desktop

Stark Bauer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 03:58 PM   #61
SuperT
Boom Shaka Laka
 
SuperT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 7,388
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
Thorson, when you get right down to it, there's no reason the likes of Doctor Strange and Daredevil and Ant-Man couldn't be a minority or Asian American either and yet no one says anything when these roles are cast.
I wasn't paying much attention to the Daredevil and Ant-Man casting but yes - both of those characters could have easily been any other race and I would have had no problem with it.

I do remember there was A LOT of talk though around the Doctor Strange casting and there was a long, diverse group of actors people were suggesting. When Cumberbatch was cast, it was a big of a letdown.

SuperT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 03:59 PM   #62
Dasher10
I'm like Deadpool IRL
 
Dasher10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,202
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Glad that Iron Fist was cast. Hoping to see more casting news soon.

Anyway, I hope that Tony Jaa is Steel Serpent, Maggie Q is Colleen Wing and we get some old Hong Kong martial arts actors for Thunderer and Professor Wing.

__________________
Hey hey, I want your cray cray.
Dasher10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 04:01 PM   #63
Lencho01
Shazoogle! Shazoogle!
 
Lencho01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 25,697
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Alright.

I was actually expecting the chosen actor to be older based on Mike Colter.

__________________
I was at some diplomatic party once. Got to talking to this princess who told me that when it came to Superman, I was missing the point. She told me, "His real strength lay in his generous spirit and sense of what's fair." - King Faraday

"
He’s much more of a working class superhero, which is why we ended the whole book with the image of a laboring Superman. He’s Everyman operating on a sci–fi Paul Bunyan scale." - Grant Morrison

"Self Portrait" By Batman
Lencho01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 04:04 PM   #64
Dark Raven
The Gal from Themyscira
 
Dark Raven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tall and tanned and young and lovely
Posts: 44,785
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

How old is Jones?

There was really no other American actor who could play the part that they had to go for another Brit?

__________________
Quote:
Anne Hathaway: "You did not just ask me that!! What a forward young man you are!!! My goodness!!"
Dark Raven is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 04:08 PM   #65
Speed Force
There was an idea...
 
Speed Force's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 9,851
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Raven View Post
How old is Jones?

There was really no other American actor who could play the part that they had to go for another Brit?
27, but he turns 28 next month

Speed Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 04:10 PM   #66
Blackman
C'mon Son
 
Blackman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 24,717
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Does it really matter if he's British or not?

If the boy can act I dont have a problem.

Blackman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 04:13 PM   #67
chamber-music
Infinity Ammo
 
chamber-music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 34,137
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Raven View Post
How old is Jones?

There was really no other American actor who could play the part that they had to go for another Brit?
Maybe Jones was awesome in his audition and had the best chemistry with Colter.

I don't think nationality matters. Charlie Cox is a Brit and a good Daredevil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lencho01 View Post
Alright.

I was actually expecting the chosen actor to be older based on Mike Colter.
Danny is younger than Luke in the comics and I imagine the show will deal with him returning to New York after years in k'un lun so I expected him to be younger.

Colter doesn't look his age either.

__________________
All aboard the Pork Chop Express!
chamber-music is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 04:24 PM   #68
Protar
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 541
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokkle View Post
Kinda like Luke a farm boy from in his isolated world becoming the best jedi of the galaxy.
Or Agent J, a nobody, becoming the hero in the Men in Black instead of all the trained agent.
Or the anime, MÄR where a japanese boy is going to another world and become the hero from there.

It's just being the main character, being a nobody in his world becoming a hero in another place he just discovered,this story is everywhere and they don't become hero because of their race.
That's a very naive stance. If these stories are just about the protagonist discovering themselves, why not allow them to be minority characters coming into their own within their own culture rather than making it about a white guy being better at another race's traditions?

Now I'm not saying I'm furious that they've cast a white person as Iron Fist. He is white in the comics and I like Finn Jones, I think he's one of GoT's most underutilised cast members imo. I haven't been happy with the direction they took his character in later seasons so seeing him get his own TV is great.

But that said, I also would have liked to see them rectifying the problematic tropes that Ironfist represents. So I'm a little disappointed but at the same time happy that an actor I like got the part.

Protar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 04:31 PM   #69
Pokkle
Side-Kick
 
Pokkle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,412
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protar View Post
That's a very naive stance. If these stories are just about the protagonist discovering themselves, why not allow them to be minority characters coming into their own within their own culture rather than making it about a white guy being better at another race's traditions?

Now I'm not saying I'm furious that they've cast a white person as Iron Fist. He is white in the comics and I like Finn Jones, I think he's one of GoT's most underutilised cast members imo. I haven't been happy with the direction they took his character in later seasons so seeing him get his own TV is great.

But that said, I also would have liked to see them rectifying the problematic tropes that Ironfist represents. So I'm a little disappointed but at the same time happy that an actor I like got the part.
It isn't limited to white guy.
The Karate Kid remake was about an black kid.
From zero to hero, the main character win, there is the same story everywhere and in every color.

And american movie and show are way more diverse than Asian drama and anime (I love anime though)


Last edited by Pokkle; 02-25-2016 at 04:37 PM.
Pokkle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 04:32 PM   #70
TheVileOne
Side-Kick
 
TheVileOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: California
Posts: 53,180
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorson View Post
Yes and sadly from its very start it was a fundamentally problematic concept.



The story of Ant-Man and Daredevil are not examples of the trope we are discussing. With Dr. Strange there is an argument to be made but nowhere near as strong as with Iron Fist.
That argument makes no sense.

__________________
"This is true. This is real. This . . . Is . . . Straight Edge."

- CM Punk
TheVileOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 04:33 PM   #71
Monochron
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,171
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
That argument makes no sense.
In what way?

Monochron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 04:36 PM   #72
Pokkle
Side-Kick
 
Pokkle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,412
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
That argument makes no sense.
Clearly.

Daredevil case is very similar to Iron Fist.
Nobu clearly said to Daredevil that the old man train him in "their ways", and Daredevil beat him.
(And DD win not because he was a white guy anyways.)

Pokkle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 04:39 PM   #73
TheVileOne
Side-Kick
 
TheVileOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: California
Posts: 53,180
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorson View Post
In what way?
More white superheroes saving the day. Doctor Strange goes to train and learn the magical arts in Asia too.

__________________
"This is true. This is real. This . . . Is . . . Straight Edge."

- CM Punk
TheVileOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 04:48 PM   #74
Protar
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 541
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokkle View Post
It isn't limited to white guy.
The Karate Kid remake was about an black kid.
From zero to hero, the main character win, there is the same story everywhere and in every color.

And american movie and show are way more diverse than Asian drama and anime (I love anime though)
You're conflating two separate tropes. Zero to hero, that's everywhere, no problem with that trope. The trope people have a problem with is when a writer wants to draw upon a foreign culture because it's cool and mystical and exotic, but they still choose a white lead because....well because erasure, appropariation, white-defaultness, and orientalism.

Now I can understand that Marvel was in a bit of bind here because asian kung fu master is also a racial trope. But imo it is the lesser of two evils because that trope is lessened greatly if the character is fleshed out outside of that. Plus just getting some more diversity would be better.

ETA: And also, good point I saw on another site is that the show will doubtless have the asian martial arts master trope anyway. Only more likely to fall into stereotyping because the asian martial arts masters will be secondary characters instead of the lead.


Last edited by Protar; 02-25-2016 at 04:53 PM.
Protar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2016, 04:52 PM   #75
Monochron
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,171
Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
More white superheroes saving the day.
You are oversimplifying the 'Mighty Whitey' trope. It's not simply about white superheroes saving the day, Iron Fist is like if the story of Black Panther were about a white guy going to Wakanda who becomes their best warrior and is deemed worthy by the Panther God to be the Black Panther.

Neither Ant-Man nor Daredevil do anything like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
Doctor Strange goes to train and learn the magical arts in Asia too.
Yes that's why I implied there is an argument to be made about the trope applying to Dr. Strange as well.

Monochron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:38 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of Mandatory Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2018 All Rights Reserved.