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Old 02-25-2016, 04:54 PM   #76
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

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Originally Posted by Protar View Post
You're conflating two separate tropes. Zero to hero, that's everywhere, no problem with that trope. The trope people have a problem with is when a writer wants to draw upon a foreign culture because it's cool and mystical and exotic, but they still choose a white lead because....well because erasure, appropariation, white-defaultness, and orientalism.

Now I can understand that Marvel was in a bit of bind here because asian kung fu master is also a racial trope. But imo it is the lesser of two evils because that trope is lessened greatly if the character is fleshed out outside of that. Plus just getting some more diversity would be better.
And in the Karate Kid remake.
The black lead go into a foreign culture, he know nothing about and becoming very good at karate Kung-Fu and beat people from this foreign culture.
They aren't always white and it has nothing to do with race, it's in tons of stories and in every color.
The hero doesn't fit in the place he lives and goes to another place/culture/world/universe and become their hero.

Harry Potter go into a foreign world, he know nothing about and become a very good magician and beat people from this foreign world.

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Old 02-25-2016, 04:56 PM   #77
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

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You are oversimplifying the 'Mighty Whitey' trope. It's not simply about white superheroes saving the day, Iron Fist is like if the story of Black Panther were about a white guy going to Wakanda who becomes their best warrior and is deemed worthy by the Panther God to be the Black Panther.

Neither Ant-Man nor Daredevil do anything like that.
The fact that we are getting into semantics over terms on TV Tropes is why I find this whole debate stupid.

Iron Fist is not like that at all.

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Yes that's why I implied there is an argument to be made about the trope applying to Dr. Strange as well.
And yet a British white actor cast as Doctor Strange and not a peep to be found. This selective argumentation is stupid. Surely a big budget theatrical movie would be a bigger statement than a streaming Netflix TV series with a fraction of the budget.

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Old 02-25-2016, 05:00 PM   #78
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

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And in the Karate Kid remake.
The black lead go into a foreign culture, he know nothing about and becoming very good at karate Kung-Fu and beat people from this foreign culture.
They aren't always white and it has nothing to do with race, it's in tons of stories and in every color.
The hero doesn't fit in the place he lives and goes to another place/culture/world/universe and become their hero.

Harry Potter go into a foreign world, he know nothing about and become a very good magician and beat people from this foreign world.
So you can name one exception. There's always exceptions. Doesn't change the fact this this is a huge trend, just go on the tvtropes page for Mightey Whitey and look at the reams of examples.

I don't know how to put it any more simply that having a story about a white person going into a fetishised, cartoonised version of another culture and then going on to be accepted into that culture and becoming the greatest it has to offer is racist. Not saying that writers are using it with malicious intent, but it has racist implications.

So while I'm happy that an actor I like got the part and is getting his own TV show, the news also makes me wary because this could be a big misstep for marvel. The best way for them to deal with it is for them to directly bring up and explore appropriation and white privilige, just as JJ dealt with sexual abuse and just as Luke Cage seems like it will deal with racism and police brutality.

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Old 02-25-2016, 05:03 PM   #79
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

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It isn't limited to white guy.
The Karate Kid remake was about an black kid.
From zero to hero, the main character win, there is the same story everywhere and in every color.

And american movie and show are way more diverse than Asian drama and anime (I love anime though)
Of course Asian media is mostly made up of Asian actors and characters. It would be ridiculous to go to China, Japan or Korea and demand their media have more white, black or hispanic people when 99% of the population in those countries are Asian.

That's not an accurate comparison to the United States since almost 50% of the population are minorities yet we don't make up even close to that percent in media representation.

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Old 02-25-2016, 05:08 PM   #80
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

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The fact that we are getting into semantics over terms on TV Tropes is why I find this whole debate stupid.

Iron Fist is not like that at all.
Nothing semantic about it. You are mischaracterizing the fundamental problem.

And yes Iron Fist is about a white guy who goes to a foreign land and then becomes that land's greatest warrior. It's not all it is about but it is undeniably a big part of it.

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And yet a British white actor cast as Doctor Strange and not a peep to be found. This selective argumentation is stupid. Surely a big budget theatrical movie would be a bigger statement than a streaming Netflix TV series with a fraction of the budget.
I did speak about it, I simply failed to do so on this website.

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Old 02-25-2016, 05:09 PM   #81
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

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So you can name one exception. There's always exceptions. Doesn't change the fact this this is a huge trend, just go on the tvtropes page for Mightey Whitey and look at the reams of examples.

I don't know how to put it any more simply that having a story about a white person going into a fetishised, cartoonised version of another culture and then going on to be accepted into that culture and becoming the greatest it has to offer is racist. Not saying that writers are using it with malicious intent, but it has racist implications.

So while I'm happy that an actor I like got the part and is getting his own TV show, the news also makes me wary because this could be a big misstep for marvel. The best way for them to deal with it is for them to directly bring up and explore appropriation and white privilige, just as JJ dealt with sexual abuse and just as Luke Cage seems like it will deal with racism and police brutality.
It's your opinion that it's racist.

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Old 02-25-2016, 05:13 PM   #82
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

I think the trope sounds pretty racist myself. Same exact thing as an outsider coming into a different culture and becoming better than the natives, but because the character is white it's a problem and needs it's own trope.

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Old 02-25-2016, 05:15 PM   #83
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Old 02-25-2016, 05:18 PM   #84
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

I imagine Jones did a screen test with Simone Missick and Mike Colter

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Old 02-25-2016, 05:24 PM   #85
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

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Originally Posted by Protar View Post
So you can name one exception. There's always exceptions. Doesn't change the fact this this is a huge trend, just go on the tvtropes page for Mightey Whitey and look at the reams of examples.

I don't know how to put it any more simply that having a story about a white person going into a fetishised, cartoonised version of another culture and then going on to be accepted into that culture and becoming the greatest it has to offer is racist. Not saying that writers are using it with malicious intent, but it has racist implications.

So while I'm happy that an actor I like got the part and is getting his own TV show, the news also makes me wary because this could be a big misstep for marvel. The best way for them to deal with it is for them to directly bring up and explore appropriation and white privilige, just as JJ dealt with sexual abuse and just as Luke Cage seems like it will deal with racism and police brutality.
Iron Fist isn't the best, there's people better than him.

In Ip man 2, the evil white boxer antagonist goes to a foreign place and also beat masters martial artist from this place to finally lose in difficult battle against the asian hero, (who also wasn't from this place but from another city and best the local martial artist.)

An foreigner can go into another country and best them, but anyways in a classic story, the winner will be the hero thanks to his heroic qualities and not the color of his skin.
Here the hero was the asian and the boxer was a bad guy.


Last edited by Pokkle; 02-25-2016 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 02-25-2016, 05:29 PM   #86
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

I'd say they could have avoided both problems by casting someone not white or asian like a latino as Iron Fist, but then they'd have both pro-white and pro-asian Iron Fist sides yelling at them.

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Old 02-25-2016, 05:32 PM   #87
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

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I'd say they could have avoided both problems by casting someone not white or asian like a latino as Iron Fist, but then they'd have both pro-white and pro-asian Iron Fist sides yelling at them.
Angry Joe, is that you?

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Old 02-25-2016, 05:34 PM   #88
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Angry Joe only cares about Superman. I doubt he's all that interested in Iron Fist .

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Old 02-25-2016, 06:03 PM   #89
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

*Sees thread talking about race*
*Leaves*

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Old 02-25-2016, 06:10 PM   #90
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

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*Sees thread talking about race*
*Leaves*
Agreed. Save it for the appropriate thread.

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Old 02-25-2016, 06:48 PM   #91
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

I didn't know who Finn Jones was till I looked him up. Didn't care for Loras Tyrell so I never really took note of his acting.

I'm curious though, is he actually gay? Couldn't find an answer on the net.

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Old 02-25-2016, 06:58 PM   #92
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

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I didn't know who Finn Jones was till I looked him up. Didn't care for Loras Tyrell so I never really took note of his acting.

I'm curious though, is he actually gay? Couldn't find an answer on the net.
Not from what I know.

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Old 02-25-2016, 07:31 PM   #93
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

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Originally Posted by Pokkle View Post
Iron Fist isn't the best, there's people better than him.

In Ip man 2, the evil white boxer antagonist goes to a foreign place and also beat masters martial artist from this place to finally lose in difficult battle against the asian hero, (who also wasn't from this place but from another city and best the local martial artist.)

An foreigner can go into another country and best them, but anyways in a classic story, the winner will be the hero thanks to his heroic qualities and not the color of his skin.
Here the hero was the asian and the boxer was a bad guy.
True. The best hand to hand fighters in the Marvel U are Shang Chi and Taskmaster followed by Wolverine and Echo. Iron Fist, Elektra and Captain America are next followed by Psylocke, Deadpool, Domino and Black Widow. So in a straight up fight, there are still people who'd manage to beat him. Not many can but there are still five. Four of which Marvel own the rights to.

If it's any consolation, Iron Fist can still beat up Daredevil, Cyclops, Bullseye, Star Lord, Black Panther, T-Ray, Tombstone, Madame Masque, Gamora, Scorpion, Doctor Doom, Drax, Ghost, Doctor Octopus, Crossbones, Baron Zemo, Spider-Man, Gambit and Mister Fantastic. If you lost the super powers, he'd also be able to take on Storm, Thor, Mister Sinister, Living Laser, Thing, Carnage, Apocalypse, Hulk and Juggernaut.

Point being, he's not the best but he isn't a pushover and one of the guys who actually can beat him in a fair fight is an Asian guy who is likely to show up if there's ever a second season.

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Old 02-25-2016, 07:41 PM   #94
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

How long do you think it'll take for us to get set photos or any offical stills?

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Old 02-25-2016, 08:11 PM   #95
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

ernestth100, it will be a while. They have to start filming the show and cast the rest of the characters.

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Old 02-25-2016, 09:27 PM   #96
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

I like Finn a lot as an actor but marvel had the chance to evolve and chose not to. Iron fist has never really been used to his full potential and to be honest, missing the chance to take risks like they did with the original iron man film will cost them

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Old 02-25-2016, 09:29 PM   #97
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

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I like Finn a lot as an actor but marvel had the chance to evolve and chose not to. Iron fist has never really been used to his full potential and to be honest, missing the chance to take risks like they did with the original iron man film will cost them
If you truly believe that, I wonder if you've ever actually read this story.



But if this was actually true and not an opinion, which it is, I'm not sure how making him Asian changes that.

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Old 02-25-2016, 09:34 PM   #98
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Can we keep it to the appropriate thread, folks? PRETTY PLEASE!

For the matter at hand... I hope he doesn't have the floppy hair. >.> The curls take away from his credibility. YES, that is judgmental of me. No, I do not care.

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Old 02-25-2016, 09:36 PM   #99
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

Yeah I also hope he gets rid of the perm for Rand.

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Old 02-25-2016, 09:49 PM   #100
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Default Re: Finn Jones IS Danny Rand / Iron Fist

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Kinda like Luke a farm boy from in his isolated world becoming the best jedi of the galaxy.
Or Agent J, a nobody, becoming the hero in the Men in Black instead of all the trained agent.
Or the anime, MÄR where a japanese boy is going to another world and become the hero from there.

It's just being the main character, being a nobody in his world becoming a hero in another place he just discovered,this story is everywhere and they don't become hero because of their race.


Beautifully said. You people who can't get over his skin colour are so shallow. Don't even watch the show you reverse bigots.

Besides this isn't the place to talk about race. That's the Asian thread. Also I'm Asian and I couldn't be prouder of Marvel for casting the right actor for the part. Because he is talented not because of age race sexual orientation nationality all those stupid shallow things that have nothing to do with Iron Fist.

I bet most of you angry about this casting have never even read an issue of an Iron Fist comic. If you did, you would understand why Marvel, the bloody creators of the character chose Finn Jones.

You want an Asian superhero, go make one yourself. Or cast me as Darkhawk.


Last edited by Stark Bauer; 02-25-2016 at 10:07 PM.
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