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Old 03-18-2017, 01:17 PM   #1
Dasher10
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Default How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

First off, do a shorter season with a larger budget per episode. The no costume thing, the lack of a Shou Lao fight and Zhou Cheng not getting his second head really rubbed me the wrong way. The lack of fights at the beginning of the season and around episodes 9-11 were unforgivable.

Secondly, fire Scott Buck. I couldn't care less about how Harold Meachum's resurrection subplot lost me. The way that the Meachum's interacted with each other was always unnatural. Everything having to do with Ward was awful, particularly how I don't even recall how he got put in an asylum and he somehow lost his drug habit when he reappeared in Episode 12 and it's never mentioned again. He also threw too many villains at us, many of whom were one-off and underdeveloped.

Here's what the story needs to do going forward.

First off, explain things a bit better in the first episode. Blow most of the budget on a flashback to the Shou Lao fight and spend the rest on exposition to set up characters and fix what didn't make sense. And the stuff that didn't make sense was why Gao was working with he Hand, why the Bride of Nine Soiders was working with Gao and why the monks served the Crane Mother when Gao was pretty clearly the Crane Mother. Explain that by stating that she was approached by the Hand as payback and accepted. Morover as the Crane Mother, she's responsible for all seven immortal weapons and has corrupted the first six. Kun Lun disappeared to preserve itself after being invaded and Davos found himself bowing to the Hand who made him into the Steel Serpent. Colleen's history with The Hand dates back to her wanting to be closer to her mother after her death but her archeologist father is still alive and becomes a supporting character who helps Danny understand his powers and history a bit better and actually owns a copy of the Book of the Iron Fist which he thought was a forgery for decades. It also indicates that there's a second Iron Fist alive who wee see in the last shot of the scene. The final scene shows Zhou Cheng in New York at a bar trying to order a drink after the last call. He explains that the Hand have existed in China since the failed Mongol invasion of Japan and since he won't be served a drink, he explains that he is a Black Sky which is a warrior who is able to serve as a vessel for one of the gods worshipped by the Hand and has killed all but two Iron Fists who have lived since he became Chi'Lin's host and offers to show the bartender just what a Black Sky can do before we see an outside shot of the bar and hear loud screams.

Episode 2 has Davos kill Ward Meachum and frame Damny for it. Zhou Cheng kills Bokuto and then uses Colleen's former students to fight her new students and if she doesn't bring Danny with her to fight him, then he'll out her involvement with the Hamd to the police. Danny needs help and the other Defenders aren't available but he hears that the other living Iron Fist is still alive in New York and he needs his help. Joy also develops a guilt complex and begins trying to atone for her mistakes after Ward's death. Those plots drive the season. No more boardroom drama and less of the budget spent renting office space. Danny lives in Harold's old penthouse but the actual offices are only seen in one episode early on and never seen again.

The season ends with Joy Meachum sacrificing herself to save Danny from Zhou Cheng, Hogarth now running Rand, Davos killing Orson, Danny and Colleen clearing their names, Zhou Cheng's death and Davos and Gao both challenging Danny to participate in a tournament in K'un-Lun to save it and to bring friends. The city will reappear when Danny agrees to he challenge.

There you go. Weaker characters like Ward and Bokuto are removed. We see more of the Season 1 villains who didn't get developed enough. A second season of Defenders hits which will be based on Seven Capital Cities of Heaven.

There you go. A better outline for a second season.

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Old 03-18-2017, 01:18 PM   #2
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

Just...get a better showrunner...

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Old 03-18-2017, 01:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

As much as it didn't particularly bother me, more kung fu and less corporate wranglings would probably placate a lot of people.

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Old 03-18-2017, 01:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

At least better kung fu. Danny should make all but a few other Marvel martial artist look like amateur. Give him a costune so he can have a good stunt double as well.

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Old 03-18-2017, 05:24 PM   #5
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

IF we get a second season. Who knows if that will happen. This might've been all we get

1. Better villains; or a stronger central villain for the season
2. New showrunner
3. C-O-S-T-U-M-E
4. Possible love triangle with Misty Knight
5. Less corporate boardroom politics; if we do, it has to be integrated to what's going on with the central story. The power struggle for Rand Corp. just wasn't interesting at all. If this happens, it has to be more of Danny taking charge and repairing the corporate and cultural image of the company, damned with corporate suit opinions.
6. More of K'un L'un

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Old 03-18-2017, 05:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
IF we get a second season. Who knows if that will happen. This might've been all we get

1. Better villains; or a stronger central villain for the season
2. New showrunner
3. C-O-S-T-U-M-E
4. Possible love triangle with Misty Knight
5. Less corporate boardroom politics; if we do, it has to be integrated to what's going on with the central story. The power struggle for Rand Corp. just wasn't interesting at all. If this happens, it has to be more of Danny taking charge and repairing the corporate and cultural image of the company, damned with corporate suit opinions.
6. More of K'un L'un
I agree with all of this. But getting rid of Ward is also needed. Also, shooting the show in K'un-Lun is doable since building sets in a warehouse sounds cheaper than renting NYC office space. Spartacus was all shot in a warehouse with a CGI background.

I want one more street level season that's based on The Last Iron Fist Story and The Mortal Iron Fist that explains some of the story elements from Season 1 better. Build the K'un-Lun sets and reuse them for Defenders Season 2.

The average episode cost for a Marvel Netflix episode is 3 million. That's more than The Walking Dead gets and half the cost of Game of Thrones. The problem isn't the budget. The problem is that it was wasted on an overly large cast with major characters wasted on single episodes with too many subplots and too much time spent on rented office space.

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Old 03-18-2017, 05:52 PM   #7
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

I'm disappointed the most we got of K'un L'un was the outside of those caves, or that one faraway shot of the main city.

I mean The Walking Dead had a CG deer. So even they cheap out sometimes.

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Old 03-18-2017, 06:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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I'm disappointed the most we got of K'un L'un was the outside of those caves, or that one faraway shot of the main city.

I mean The Walking Dead had a CG deer. So even they cheap out sometimes.
CGI is still expensive since you need artists to render it and licenses for Maya, After Effects and Photoshop for each artist.

Next time, Marvel needs to kill off Bokuto and Ward early on in the season since the cast was bloated and these were the two weakest villains. Then only rent the office space for the fist episode and keep he rest of the business scenes in Harold's penthouse which is where Danny's moved into. Easy solution. Spend the rest of that money on fight scenes, costuming, a stunt double for Finn and K'un Lun flashbacks with a whole city built.

Also, don't rent space on the college campus for The Hand base anymore. Film more of the show in a warehouse and in the streets where it's cheaper.

And what was done to Bride of Nine Spiders was criminal. She's an Immortal Weapon. We need her back for more than just a single fight scene.

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Old 03-18-2017, 06:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
IF we get a second season. Who knows if that will happen. This might've been all we get

1. Better villains; or a stronger central villain for the season
2. New showrunner
3. C-O-S-T-U-M-E
4. Possible love triangle with Misty Knight
5. Less corporate boardroom politics; if we do, it has to be integrated to what's going on with the central story. The power struggle for Rand Corp. just wasn't interesting at all. If this happens, it has to be more of Danny taking charge and repairing the corporate and cultural image of the company, damned with corporate suit opinions.
6. More of K'un L'un
I agree with all of this. But getting rid of Ward is also needed. Also, shooting the show in K'un-Lun is doable since building sets in a warehouse sounds cheaper than renting NYC office space. Spartacus was all shot in a warehouse with a CGI background.

I want one more street level season that's based on The Last Iron Fist Story and The Mortal Iron Fist that explains some of the story elements from Season 1 better. Build the K'un-Lun sets and reuse them for Defenders Season 2.

The average episode cost for a Marvel Netflix episode is 3 million. That's more than The Walking Dead gets and half the cost of Game of Thrones. The problem isn't the budget. The problem is that it was wasted on an overly large cast with major characters wasted on single episodes with too many subplots and too much time spent on rented office space.

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Old 03-18-2017, 06:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
IF we get a second season. Who knows if that will happen. This might've been all we get

1. Better villains; or a stronger central villain for the season
2. New showrunner
3. C-O-S-T-U-M-E
4. Possible love triangle with Misty Knight
5. Less corporate boardroom politics; if we do, it has to be integrated to what's going on with the central story. The power struggle for Rand Corp. just wasn't interesting at all. If this happens, it has to be more of Danny taking charge and repairing the corporate and cultural image of the company, damned with corporate suit opinions.
6. More of K'un L'un
I assume you mean a Misty/Danny/Colleen triangle and to that, I say, absolutely not! First of all, Danny and Colleen should have never been turned into some kind of a love story. That was one of my biggest disappointments with this season (I'll get to the other one below). I was prepared to accept a flirtation, even sex (a la Misty/Luke) but a season-long romance? Totally unnecessary. As far as I'm concerned, Danny/Colleen need to be over by the time Defenders premieres. Definitely do not want to see any romance continue into Season 2. Misty most certainly should be in season 2 though and her and Danny's romance needs to be explored. I will accept nothing less.

The other main criticism for me is Danny being way too emotional. I'm glad the writers explored that side of him, as he should be traumatized by everything he's experience. But I think they overdid it a bit. By the end of the season, I was exhausted with Danny losing it. I guess I could tolerate it more if his psychological state is something they really explored in S2, as in, he seeks help (as Claire suggested) and learns to reconcile/control his emotions. In any case, I want to see a calmer, more in control Danny in future seasons.


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Old 03-18-2017, 06:40 PM   #11
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

I am not completely done but, I don't see the point of having the company being so involved. The Gao running drugs through the company story could have continued without the company. The Meachums seem to just be there and serve no purpose.

I don't see a solo 2nd season happening. If Punisher continues to be a badass he will move up to having a 2nd season before IF. The next Iron Fist season should just be a Heroes for Hire season. After Luke Cage finishes his business in season 2 they can go on to do that. I have a feeling they will have good chemistry and bicker about music.

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Old 03-18-2017, 06:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

If they do a second season, RZA should be very involved. He understands the aspects of kung fu and the way it should be done.

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Old 03-18-2017, 06:47 PM   #13
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

I haven't seen the series but I keep hearing things. Is it really that bad?

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Old 03-18-2017, 06:54 PM   #14
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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If they do a second season, RZA should be very involved. He understands the aspects of kung fu and the way it should be done.
I agree completely. He, Andy Goddard and Kevin Tenchaeroen did the best episodes. Replace the other directors, replace the showrunner and replace the writers. Get people who directed episodes of Street Fighter: Assassin's Fist, The Last Ship, Battlestar Galactica and other action series to direct as well as people who've done low budget martial arts films (namely Michael Jai White). My main suggestions for showrunners are Gareth Evans and Aaron Shoenke.

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Old 03-18-2017, 06:55 PM   #15
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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If they do a second season, RZA should be very involved. He understands the aspects of kung fu and the way it should be done.
RZA directed episode 6. My favorite episode LOL.

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Old 03-18-2017, 06:59 PM   #16
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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I haven't seen the series but I keep hearing things. Is it really that bad?
The fights are actually quite good but the show has serious issues. Namely a bloated cast, too many subplots, budget allocation issues and everything having to do with Ward Meachum.

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Old 03-18-2017, 07:06 PM   #17
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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The fights are actually quite good but the show has serious issues. Namely a bloated cast, too many subplots, budget allocation issues and everything having to do with Ward Meachum.
How faithful to the comics is it? Is Danny's origin the same? Does he have the Dragon brand on his chest?

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Old 03-18-2017, 07:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

It's different. In the comics, Danny was with his parents on like an expedition. Harold Meachum was there too. Harold murders Wendell in cold blood in front of Danny and his mother. Danny's mom sacrifices herself to protect her son who manages to get to K'un L'un as wolves devour his mother.

When Danny finally returns to New York and gets to Meachum, he's become an amputee due to frostbite. Danny lets go of his revenge and pities Meachum instead of wanting to kill him, who was basically begging for death at that point. That was what allowed Danny to let go of his vengeance and anger toward Harold Meachum.

Instead, The Hand and Harold sabotaged the plane that was going to China to bust open the inside drug trade. At the time, Danny had no idea it was sabotage or foul play, but Madame Gao said he had probably suspected or thought it all that time.

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Old 03-18-2017, 07:19 PM   #19
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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How faithful to the comics is it? Is Danny's origin the same? Does he have the Dragon brand on his chest?
It's somewhat faithful. Danny gets the chest tat and the origin is the same but Shou Lao is just two glowing red eyes. Major characters like Thunderer, Zhou Cheng and Bride of Nine Spiders only appear
In a single episode and they appear to be set up for a second season. Steel Serpent has no powers and is more of an anti-hero who's set up as a bad guy in a future episode.

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Old 03-18-2017, 07:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

Well, we never actually saw Shou Lao.

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Old 03-18-2017, 07:21 PM   #21
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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It's somewhat faithful. Danny gets the chest tat and the origin is the same but Shou Lao is just two glowing red eyes. Major characters like Thunderer, Zhou Cheng and Bride of Nine Spiders only appear
In a single episode and they appear to be set up for a second season. Steel Serpent has no powers and is more of an anti-hero who's set up as a bad guy in a future episode.
What makes you so positive Zhou Cheng and Bride are being set up for the second season?

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Old 03-18-2017, 07:23 PM   #22
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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Instead, The Hand and Harold sabotaged the plane that was going to China to bust open the inside drug trade. At the time, Danny had no idea it was sabotage or foul play, but Madame Gao said he had probably suspected or thought it all that time.
Mm... Okay. Thanks.

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Old 03-18-2017, 07:24 PM   #23
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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What makes you so positive Zhou Cheng and Bride are being set up for the second season?
They were both knocked out and some of Zhou Cheng's dialog implied that he was holding back. No, we don't see Chi'Lin in his neck.

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Old 03-18-2017, 07:26 PM   #24
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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They were both knocked out and some of Zhou Cheng's dialog implied that he was holding back. No, we don't see Chi'Lin in his neck.
We are never going to see Chi'Lin in his neck I think. Seeing them get knocked out isn't really setting them up for a second season. A setup for next season would be like those epilogue scenes with Davos and Joy and then Colleen and Danny in the Himalayas.

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Old 03-18-2017, 07:27 PM   #25
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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It's somewhat faithful. Danny gets the chest tat and the origin is the same but Shou Lao is just two glowing red eyes.
That's a shame.

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Steel Serpent has no powers and is more of an anti-hero who's set up as a bad guy in a future episode.
Oh, okay. I remember way back one of my favourite comics (two-parter, I think) was where Steel Serpent stole the power of the Iron Fist from Danny and Spider-Man had to face SS one on one in (IIRC) the children's play area of a park.

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