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Old 03-19-2017, 07:06 PM   #101
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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Please direct me to confirmation of Punisher season 2. A link to any reputable news site will do.

I don't mind if Defenders has a shifting line-up. Heroes For Hire can be a subset of the group...the point is...I think that daredevil stands on his own for multiple seasons better than the others.

There is no reason quite yet to think that Netflix is willing to double down on their Marvel releases. I've seen no sign of them moving to 4 or 5 Marvel shows per year. At the moment, it seems like maybe a good idea would be to weed out a few that aren't working as well and introducing new series in their places.
We're getting three this year. Defenders just wrapped and it'll likely hit in August or September and Punisher is likely for December.

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Old 03-19-2017, 07:13 PM   #102
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

I think they already laid the groundwork to fix things. Davos as the baddie with Joy trying to regain control in Rand and whatever happened in K'un Lun.

I would get rid of Buck though and get better writers for this.

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Old 03-19-2017, 07:14 PM   #103
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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We're getting three this year. Defenders just wrapped and it'll likely hit in August or September and Punisher is likely for December.
Can you show me where Punisher has been greenlit for an ongoing series or not?

And yes...I'm aware that the success of Daredevil has led to an expansion of the original plan...a quick second season for daredevil...a season for Punisher (though you have claimed that the show is confirmed for more than one season)...but my GUESS is...that until evidence presents itself to the contrary...we should assume that Netflix is not interested in just pumping out Marvel shows every other month. Maybe they are moving in that direction...but there has not been confirmation of this.

I know that comic fans want every show to have a hundred seasons...and for every property to have a show...but this is likely a bad idea. I personally can't stand it when a show exists just to exist...long after the story seemed to have naturally ended and it just keeps going because people are getting paid. I PREFER the idea that most of these shows would be temporary event type series. I think if Netflix moved to having a Marvel show every other month, the hype would die down and people wouldn't watch as much...ESPECIALLY if the shows are getting reviews like Iron Fist is.

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Old 03-19-2017, 07:23 PM   #104
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

Considering that Iron Fist owes a
lot to old dimestore adventure pulps, I hope for Rhianna Pratchett to write an episode next season. She handed the Tomb Raider reboot well. She's be great for Iron Fist.


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Old 03-20-2017, 08:15 AM   #105
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

I'm not a fan of Rhianna. Not as good as her father was imo. I wasn't impressed by her Tomb Raider stories and I know at least the first one got flak from reviewers due to its story and how it handled characters. Her other credits are a mixed bag. Few things really stand out.

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Old 03-20-2017, 10:52 PM   #106
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

Who was the showrunner for Banshee? That show knew how to mix action with pulpy characters.

I think with the need to keep things in line with the four series grounded for Defenders gone, they can go ham on season two.

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Old 03-20-2017, 11:21 PM   #107
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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Who was the showrunner for Banshee? That show knew how to mix action with pulpy characters.

I think with the need to keep things in line with the four series grounded for Defenders gone, they can go ham on season two.
The show had two guys. One is exclusively known for Banshee on the tv side and the other guy, Jonathan Tropper, interestingly enough has 2 other shows hopefully on the horizon. One of which sounds very apt to Iron Fist.

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Old 03-21-2017, 01:35 AM   #108
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

I'm open to seeing another solo season of each JJ, LC and IF. But I'd also be open to them just going straight into H4H.

If they do a second season of Iron Fist, the Kung Fu needs to be better. Danny had about 3 impressive fighting moments in the entire season. Which is just sad. Daredevil's action was better in every way. If they need to give him a mask for stunt double reasons, i welcome it.

Danny needs to be more zen, more cheery, and less dopey. I was given no reason to understand why this guy was made the Iron Fist.

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Old 03-21-2017, 05:07 AM   #109
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

My thoughts in an overly long post... Sorry.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
The more I think on this show's season the more I consider it more harshly. It did not have to be so. That said it's seeming the more I read that this was an issue of poor planning which impacted the show in the form of a rushed production that did not have the resources to do a more than bare bones version of the Iron Fist mythos. Seriously... In many ways, despite the use of "mature languages and themes" the season played out the way I imagined an Iron Fist show done in the early 1990's would have. So I don't lay this all at the feet of the show runner. That said if there is a second season...

1. Scrap the creative team in total and bring on a new show runner.

Buck was given his shot here and now has Inhumans to over see. Let him concentrate on that. I have to imagine that property was given a bigger budget... At least I hope so. Bring in a team that is has experience in crafting action above all but also compelling human drama. I don't have the team or person off the top of my head that could do that but as stated I would not bring Buck back, and thus I would make a break from what came before.

2. Increase the budget by a substantial amount and give the creatives the time to shape the show into what it should be.

I know part of the appeal to Marvel in doing these shows is the low investment with high payoff. I get that. DD was incredibly successful and paved the way for this because it wasn't a huge production. But with this property there is no way around certain requirements to satisfactorily tell the story. A bigger budget would also to a certain extent allow for more time, but regardless, more time to plan out and shoot things in season one could only have improved all aspects. Don't be tightwad Ike. There is alot of potential in this mythology. Your main character fought a dragon to gain mystical power. That's awesomeness everyone's inner 14 year old wants to see. But it would require some SFX of a certain level to bring off.

3. FLASHBACKS to build up K'un-Lun and Danny.

A huge issue with the first season is that well, so little of the backstory and character of Danny is ill defined, or defined by exposition. Like all the previous Marvel Netflix offerings this show needed to have the audience shown Danny's life before the story we were watching in the present started. His training with the Thunderer. His friendship and rivalry with Davos. The society and history of K'un-Lun, and so much more needed to be shown. When the city is shown to be mysteriously gone... Who cares? We never made a connection to it at all. The show didn't make it a focus so it has zero impact. Gao telling us it was heaven does little. Show us Gao as a young woman there and maybe it would resonate more, the choice Danny made to leave. If Finn came across bland it's a lot more due to this oversight of the writing than anything else. He comes across whiny because he keeps telling us about his life post the crash, how he felt and what living in K'un-Lun was like for him, but we never see it. One or two episodes of that would have been enough. A peek into his progression as a warrior. Finally... We needed to see his match against the dragon where he claimed the title. They can still do all this in season two and it would make for a compelling story.









4. Danny needs more than two modes of being.

Throughout the show Danny seemed to have only two states, naive or angry. Most of the time that's what I got from him, or that's all the story gave Finn to work with. This is another way flashbacks could have helped. Show lessons Danny learned form triumph or failure when he was training and living in K'un-Lun and then see him applying that in the present. He may not be "worldly" but why does that automatically have to translate into gullible and guileless? He is supposed to be a master class martial artist with a strong spiritual side. That was barely present at all. Show Danny having a strong sense of Zen combined with a warriors understanding of the need for cunning. Make him self critical without needlessly beating himself up. When he makes a mistake he corrects himself and his actions and moves on. Unfortunately, while this would improve the character it also would go against what's already been established in season one. Hopefully thought they can find ways to do that which now I can't see.

5. Embrace what inspired the comic characters to begin with.

TV/Streaming/Movies and comics share lots of similarities but also many differences as media. I do think it's important that one remembers what inspired Iron Fist in the first place. The Kung Fu movie craze of the 1970's-1980's. The preceding Netflix shows all understood that the flavor of what ever the comics were inspired and influenced by had to be front and center in these live action adaptations. None did this better out of the whole pack than LUKE CAGE. I may have a few quibbles about the series as a whole but above all it knew what it was supposed to be and delivered it. It knew that Cage was inspired by all the big, and some of the not so big Blaxploitation films of the 1970's. Shaft, Super Fly, Coffey, Trouble Man... Those are it's forefathers and it delivered a modernized version of that. This gave the show an essential flavor, a uniqueness. Hell forget about the musical performances on the show. Just think about the Luke Cage original music the show had. It was totally in the wheelhouse of Shaft and Super Fly. Now try and remember the music in Iron Fist... You can't. It was generic low budget streaming show background music. Now imagine it was more like say, Lalo Schifrin's music for Enter The Dragon? It wouldn't have to even be an exact match but something evocative of that style of film, again, only modernized in some fashion.







Aping the Golden Harvest, Shaw Bros. Bruce Lee films, even keeping the tropes and cliche's is exactly what IF needed to have. What was one of the better entries in the the series? Episode 6 and episode 8. Why? Those shows had the elements familiar to Kung Fu movie fans. The drunken master fight, the former student remembering the lessons of his master in the middle of the fight ect. As nitpick of my own though... Be just a teeny more real world accurate in presenting various martial arts. Show Danny and others really know the difference between the various hard and soft Chinese styles, the Japanese Samurai arts (which is what Colleen really should have been teaching, some style of Kenjutsu combined with Akijujitsu and Atemi-waza... But I digress...) or any of the many other systems. And show that Danny can adapt to them as well.











6. Take more cues from the modern Iron Fist run, don't relegate it to simply fodder for Easter Eggs.

One of the best things about the Matt Fraction and Brubaker run was the expansion of the lore and mythology of Iron Fist. So many new concepts. So many new characters to play with. For a season two I beg the show runners to mine all of it.

A. Bring in the Book Of The Iron Fist. This gives Danny a reason to continue training and expands the things the character can do with his power. The Chi healing of self and other. The expansion of the mind. The expansion of the senses. Iron Shirt Chi-Kung. Enhancing use of weapons with Chi. Chi knock outs and on and on.

B. Make the other Immortal Weapons supporting Characters or slowly introduce the idea of the other Cities of heaven. That is enough to explore in one season. But more importantly the other Weapons are just visually and conceptually great fun characters. And they add to the idea of showcasing real martial arts styles from around the world.

C. Introduce the idea of Orson Randall even if he doesn't appear in season one. But get into the idea of the Iron Fist being a legacy.

D. Use. The. Modernized. Costume.





7. Get out of NYC.

This may be part of the budget issues but while I wouldn't want the show to completely abandon the backdrop of MCU NYC... For a change of pace why can't this be the series that goes beyond Manhattan. Danny is rich and has a connection to an exotic locale already. Do some globe hopping. Film on location in some Asian, South Asian or South East Asian places. Go to Europe. Get Danny involved with something that starts in NYC, takes him to a few different places and then end back home. Let these Netflix series be more than just LAW AND ORDER with Marvel heroes.



I think that's about it. Notice I didn't touch on the actual fight coordination much at all. I was not of the opinion that was actually much of an issue. It wasn't bad or terrible but neither was it spectacular. That would be solved though simply by having more time and resources. Had season one had more of each they could have matched DD's infamous hallway/stairway fights.

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Old 03-21-2017, 05:48 AM   #110
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

I think a couple of those are non-starters. They're not going to increase the budget and not get out of New York. I suspect they aren't going to build sets either. It's just not the Marvel Netflix style.

But I do agree they need to embrace the Kung-Fu roots and go that route. It should be a situation where, at a minimum, it's just fun. I don't think they need to fire all the writers to do that, they just need to look at what they have and find the ones that worked best. Hopefully Scott Buck will be busy with Inhumans (as a graceful way of replacing him).

Ideally, Netflix will relax their requirement of 13 episodes and they can get a nice eight episode show. Combined with more prep time, that would help them make it a more high octane, fun show.

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Old 03-21-2017, 05:59 AM   #111
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

I was just thinking that I forgot to say that yeah... They may have to rethink this 13 episode strategy too. Not every story needs to be stretched out that way.

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Old 03-21-2017, 06:04 AM   #112
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

Agreed. Iron Fist might have been more enjoyable had they trimmed the useless fat, and condensed the story into 6 Episodes. Because it's obvious they did just not have the material for 13 Episodes. We did not need 3 whole hours of trying to prove that he is who he says he is.

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Old 03-21-2017, 07:16 AM   #113
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

What they really need is a cohesive vision and style.

The show lacked that. It was very paint by the numbers. Almost CW-ish. Embrace the Asian culture and all the beauty that comes with it.

Also bring in directors and fight choreographers who specialize in martial arts films. While I get the need to lean into all the boardroom stuff, they'd probably do better to move away from that since it's well-traveled road that the Batman films and Arrow has already covered.

Like previously stated, bring in the Book of the Iron Fist, Immortal Weapons and, to ramp up interest, Shang-Chi.

And first and foremost, use the damn mask!!!

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Old 03-21-2017, 07:49 AM   #114
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im honestly worried we got get a s2.... and finding out what happened the reasons the show is what it iis in s1 all these problems are easily fixable.. i hope they dont give up on it

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Old 03-21-2017, 02:54 PM   #115
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

I don't think they will. I was very happy with Season One, but if there were internal problems (like rushing, etc.) I suspect that Marvel will, internally, seek to correct things to right the ship and give it another go. I think Iron Fist's connection to the other Marvel Netflix shows will buy some leeway. Though, again...I really loved Season One. But, I don't think you should be worried about it not getting a second season. Marvel Netflix is so popular, they're trying to crank these out as fast as they can, I think. Iron Fist is already on the slate, so I think that matters.

Saw some background on Steel Serpent...so I'm even more excited to see more of Davos next season. I really liked the intensity he brought, and the chemistry he had with Danny. I also think the way it's been set up, there's alot of righteous anger to fuel things between he and his brother.

I'm also hoping that Bakuto returns. I'd like to see what an all out-war between The Hand looks like. I mean, seeing ninja on ninja violence could be cool. And I really enjoyed having a Puerto Rican Sensei. Rordiguez, the actor who played him, was awesome too. I liked what he brought to the role.

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Old 03-21-2017, 10:16 PM   #116
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http://thegww.com/6-issues-that-if-a...ron-fists-chi/

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Old 03-21-2017, 11:25 PM   #117
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I agree with everything.

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Old 03-22-2017, 05:04 AM   #118
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

They aren't leaving New York because Marvel struck a deal to there. Even when they went to China in the show it was still clearly in the New York state area.

I want some Big Trouble In Little China style martial arts fantasy mixed with mundane contemporary city life. Embrace the fantasy elements more.

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Old 03-22-2017, 05:15 AM   #119
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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Nah, you definitely want the wirework for a wu xia style superhero thing like this.
What hurts more is that you had the same fight coordinator as:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

However, that bald pony-tailed guy brought in a lot of his own stunt people on to the show.


Also, Look up "Kurt Bunker Banshee fight" on youtube.
Tom Wu (hundred eyes) used to be in a show with Jessica Henwick

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Old 03-22-2017, 05:44 AM   #120
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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They aren't leaving New York because Marvel struck a deal to there. Even when they went to China in the show it was still clearly in the New York state area.

I want some Big Trouble In Little China style martial arts fantasy mixed with mundane contemporary city life. Embrace the fantasy elements more.
Yeah, I don't expect them to go to China and I think it's a terrible idea to film New York and say "it's China, guys."

That being said, and this is strongly contrary to what they normally do, they should build a set for K'un Lun. Some of it (dojo scenes or whatever) are easy enough. You just need hardwood floors and guys in robes. But they'll either need CG mattes or an actual set if he ever steps out doors. Both are alien to Marvel Netflix.

I thought they were clever with their limitations by using the very, very brief mysterious flashbacks combined with the Lei Kung hallucinations, but those limitations are unnecessary and looked artificial. The big problem is a lot of flashbacks of a K'un Lun story have been spoiled, but I think it would work well as a soft reboot. And you can sell the Davos friendship while setting him up as the villain.

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Old 03-22-2017, 08:37 AM   #121
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

Man, just have the RZA direct a quarter of the episodes for season 2. The really important ones while the rest of the episodes builds off that momentum.

Episode 6 is the turning point of that IF and was what I was expecting from the show. It was like watching an old school Kung Fu flick set in 2017 NY with a comic book character as the protagonist. THAT's exactly what Iron Fist is.

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Old 03-22-2017, 08:50 AM   #122
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

You know what they could do for season 2? Adapt The Seven Captial Cities of Heaven story arc as a pseudo origin story. Taking a deeper look at K'un Lun and the other cities and their champions at this huge once in a life time Tournament. Yeah Iron Fist has to be set in New York for the most part, but this tournament could be a season long affair through flashbacks and would flesh out Danny's character while giving us context on the mystical side of this character's world.

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Old 03-22-2017, 09:55 AM   #123
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

Gah.

Most obviously, as has been said over and over, with lengthy clips from a plethora of kung-fu flicks available in the mainstream, take the Kung Fu in your Kung Fu superhero seriously. Ultraseriously. It is downright embarassing to have such an embarassment of riches and come up with fight scenes that are less engaging than the corporate politics of the show. It is downright embarassing to have fight scenes that pale in comparison to Daredevil, a show with a similar budget, medium and leadership. This ludicrous mis-development cannot be overstated.

But this isn't really the problem. This blandness comes from an overall issue with the series: it's lack of interest in what makes Danny Rand unique. Like Jessica Jones, the series is more concerned with its social themes, but unlike Jessica Jones, which merely neutered a terrifying villain into a disturbing one, the main character himself suffers under the weight of a show that simply isn't that interested in him or what he does. The audience still doesn't have a clear understanding of the Iron Fist ability, what inhibits and enables it, or a memorable villain experience, because creating an antagonist for Danny was never really a priority of the series, even though it tried to create a deep issue with Harold in the final episodes. Other symptoms include a lack of costume or visual identity for this super powered person, a lack of information about his life growing up which manifests in a clear lack of connection with his so called best friend, with whom he spent the past 15 years.

The show knows what it's about and what it's interested in. The Hand, obligatory to set up for Defenders, and the Meachums. Ward has the best arc, Joy is perhaps the most conflicted and heroic and Harold is the character that pushes the story forward with his decisions. The most defining consistent trait Danny Rand has is his lack of ability to

So to fix the show? In short: Make it about Danny Rand. I think symptoms of such a decisions will look something like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
IF we get a second season. Who knows if that will happen. This might've been all we get

1. Better villains; or a stronger central villain for the season
2. New showrunner
3. C-O-S-T-U-M-E
4. Possible love triangle with Misty Knight
5. Less corporate boardroom politics; if we do, it has to be integrated to what's going on with the central story. The power struggle for Rand Corp. just wasn't interesting at all. If this happens, it has to be more of Danny taking charge and repairing the corporate and cultural image of the company, damned with corporate suit opinions.
6. More of K'un L'un
I would just add to that: be fracking consistent with Colleen Wing's characterization. If she's a hard-ass, then keep her that way.

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Old 03-22-2017, 10:51 AM   #124
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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You know what they could do for season 2? Adapt The Seven Captial Cities of Heaven story arc as a pseudo origin story. Taking a deeper look at K'un Lun and the other cities and their champions at this huge once in a life time Tournament. Yeah Iron Fist has to be set in New York for the most part, but this tournament could be a season long affair through flashbacks and would flesh out Danny's character while giving us context on the mystical side of this character's world.
I'd rather that Season 2 start with adapting The Last Iron Fist Story and The Mortal Iron Fist. Save Seven Capital Cities of Heaven for Defenders 2.

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Old 03-22-2017, 11:13 AM   #125
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Default Re: How to fix the show in Season 2 (spoilers)

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Tom Wu (hundred eyes) used to be in a show with Jessica Henwick
Cringe

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