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Old 08-10-2015, 01:24 AM   #726
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

What works about the film works very well. Unfortunately, there is a whole lot that does not.

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Old 08-13-2015, 08:14 PM   #727
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

When I think about it now,it would've been better to see Eddie Brock being "in love" with Mary Jane instead of Gwen. Maybe MJ goes to meet Peter at the Bugle one day and she catches Eddie's eye. Brock could actually show up at her show and give her the support that Peter wasn't. When the trouble starts between Peter and MJ,Eddie could try to steal her away. That would actually give Peter more of a reason to be pissed at Brock,especially once Peter gets the black suit. And in the end,instead of Venom kidnapping MJ,he could actually tell Peter than he plans to "console" her once Spider-man is dead. I think having Brock trying to get with MJ would've given more depth to his and Peter's rivalry.

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Old 08-13-2015, 11:30 PM   #728
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When I think about it now,it would've been better to see Eddie Brock being "in love" with Mary Jane instead of Gwen. Maybe MJ goes to meet Peter at the Bugle one day and she catches Eddie's eye. Brock could actually show up at her show and give her the support that Peter wasn't. When the trouble starts between Peter and MJ,Eddie could try to steal her away. That would actually give Peter more of a reason to be pissed at Brock,especially once Peter gets the black suit. And in the end,instead of Venom kidnapping MJ,he could actually tell Peter than he plans to "console" her once Spider-man is dead. I think having Brock trying to get with MJ would've given more depth to his and Peter's rivalry.
That takes so much away from Harry as a character. Which has been tied into the Peter/MJ relationship since the first film.

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Old 08-19-2015, 10:29 AM   #729
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That takes so much away from Harry as a character. Which has been tied into the Peter/MJ relationship since the first film.
Agreed to this.

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Old 11-24-2015, 12:02 PM   #730
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

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I agree. The first movie is solid, and the second is a major upgrade. The third one has flaws, but it's still a good movie to me. Anne is the best part of TDK Rises, but I actually find SM3 more enjoyable as a viewing experience.
I also think Sony constantly had Raimi under the gun. He didn't get to do other projects in between Spider-Man movies like WB allowed Nolan to do with Batman.

It also still angers me with all the money and praise Raimi reaped with the first two Spidey movies, the studio and producers didn't let him make SM-3 his own way. And it shows.

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Old 11-26-2015, 05:37 AM   #731
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

Just rewatched this. This movie still has some incredible scenes in it,and its first half is actually very good,plot contrivancies notwithstanding. It's after the Black SM vs Sandman battle that it starts going downhill with a couple of terrible scenes that go too OTT and really damage the whole experience. Sam Raimi proved he can still bring heart to a product he ultimately couldn't control in the creative process. SM1 and 2 are classics but this is still a decent conclusion to the trilogy,has incredible action scenes,it still feels lively,there are good character moments and a clear arc for Peter completely missing from the ASM movies. Time has been grateful to SM3 imo.

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Old 01-11-2016, 12:43 AM   #732
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

So I'm watching the film now and I have to ask those of you who hate the movie:Are there any scenes,pieces of dialogue or moments that you love? Even if you dislike the film a lot,what parts would you rank as the best in the series or that impress you the most?
And to those of you who love the movie or at least see it in a more positive light:Are there any moments,dialogue or scenes that make you cringe or that you despise,even if you adore the movie?

I've stated my opinion before(love the film,although it does have a lot of flaws)and I won't mention my biggest disappointment with it because it's too obvious(lack of Venom development or screentime),so even after all this time,for me some scenes or moments that I just don't care for are:

-Not a big fan of Mary Jane getting kidnapped and screaming AGAIN. No wonder Kirsten was probably tired of the series by this point. All she seemed to be was bait,or a prize for Spidey/Peter to get. I wish in part 3 they either had Gwen be the one who was kidnapped or just have Spidey fight Venom/Sandman not because they have a hostage,but because he's the hero and it's the right thing to do.

-The jazz club scene. I loved the strutting down the street,but for me that jazz club scene was just too much. I would've much rather seen Peter take Gwen there to make MJ jealous(and maybe even flaunted Gwen in front of Eddie). Maybe done some flirting or some sexy dancing with Gwen,but that whole jumping around on chairs and the,"Dig on this." was a bit too silly.

-The news reporters. It still kinda takes me out of the ending fight. I want to see Spider-man vs. Venom,not these news reporters stating the obvious. And I wasn't a big fan of the crowd there. I understand that Venom/Brock wanted an audience there to witness Spidey's defeat,but some of their supposed "acting" was pretty bad and it once again,took away from the final fight.

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Old 01-11-2016, 07:47 AM   #733
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

The scene in your avy is cringe-worthy and awful, for one.

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Old 01-12-2016, 11:26 AM   #734
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Default Re: Are we too harsh on SM3?

I'm trying to think of a scene that makes me cringe, because what others find cringeworthy I find so goofy I can't help but laugh at.
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The scene in your avy is cringe-worthy and awful, for one.
If I don't find this cringe material on its own, it's combination with the moment Sandman going "Oh $#%^", especially after almost beating the crap out of Spider-Man with a merciless giant fist feeling like "Yeah, I'm killing this mofo as I promised that freak in black with fangs, cause he tried to kill me first."

Oh, and Sandman seeing Spider-Man's face.

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Old 01-12-2016, 12:41 PM   #735
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I cringe only at dance scenes. I not like some other scenes but dance ones are only ones cringy.

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Old 02-09-2016, 05:38 PM   #736
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I cringe only at dance scenes. I not like some other scenes but dance ones are only ones cringy.
Yeah, that's pretty much the point though lol

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Old 02-09-2016, 11:13 PM   #737
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These are tumblr posts from someone about Spider-Man 3. I can't say I disagree.
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An Analysis Of Spider-Man 3, Part 1: Harry Osborn, His Character Status, Thematic Status And Characterization…

Harry was never meant to be the main villain. There’s no story there. It’s just GG #2 with an added dose of revenge. That’s nothing new and doesn’t bring any new themes or ideas into play. The amnesia has a purpose. It shows us the kind of man he was or would’ve been without this darkening influence on him of his father, and it shows Harry the kind of man he’s capable of being. It also plays into the whole “everyone’s happy until their problems come back to bite them in the butt” aspect of the film. This happens to all the characters. The main ones anyway. For Peter, it’s his guilt and anger at the loss of Uncle Ben. For Mary-Jane, it’s her insecurities and unresolved issues with her father and her sense of self. For Harry, it’s his desire for revenge and unresolved issues with HIS father and HIS sense of self. That’s actually a really good reasoning for Mary-Jane and Harry connect so easily as they do. The amnesia is also something straight out of the comic book. I believe we’re supposed to understand that Harry’s insane. Again, something from the comics: When Norman loses his memory, he becomes sane until a large amount of stress causes another psychotic break and brings back his memories of being the Green Goblin. Harry also doesn’t snap for no reason. The kiss he and Mary-Jane have triggers it, partially. Although it’s never stated, I believe that until then Harry had been living in ignorant bliss of any of his resentful feelings towards Peter. But when the kiss happens and Mary-Jane takes off, because she feels guilty, Harry envies Peter and feels anger and resentment towards him for having something he can’t, which triggers the flood of everything else. I do think Harry’s turn into friend is a little fast, but it’s like Peter says about choice at the end: Harry, now having seen the good man he can be without his father’s influence, CHOOSES to be that. He CHOOSES to be the best version of himself because that’s what’s right and Harry’s knows it. That’s Harry’s arc: Finding a way out of the shadow of his Father. He literally does that to its fullest extent. Where Norman tried to kill Spiderman with his glider and accidentally killed himself, Harry CHOSE to throw himself in front of his glider to save Peter, getting himself killed. He CHOSE to be the best version of himself in that moment: Not Norman Osborn’s son, or even the Green Goblin’s son Goblin Jr., but Harry Osborn Peter’s friend. It’s actually really beautiful. He didn’t die to pay for anything. That’s not what it was about.
Quote:
An Analysis Of Spider-Man 3, Part 2: The Villains, Their Narrative Purpose, Thematic Purpose And Characterization…

The whole point of Sandman is to show how Peter can be a hypocrite in this situation. The whole point is that he was wrong for this. It is to show a villain who is not evil, but is someone who wronged the hero, and how that doesn’t automatically make him evil, or deserving of death. Much like the man who died in SM 1. Flint’s partner was a bad guy. He literally tried to shoot Peter in the face. And Peter was wrong for letting that guy die then too. Him being Uncle Ben’s real killer or not doesn’t make that action right, which again, is the point. Peter is not always in the right. He does wrong things. And makes huge mistakes. Flint’s team up at the end is about how Spiderman’s gotten in his way twice by this point and the only way to stop him from interfering a second time is to take him out.

Eddie shows to be the darker version of Peter, of what Peter could be. Just like Harry sees the good man he could be by losing his memory, Peter literally sees the monster he could be in its physical manifestation in Venom. Eddie, in this movie, doesn’t see how his actions are wrong, much like Peter in a lot of cases in this film. Again, that’s the point: That is bad. And it’s something that exists in Peter as well in this movie: An unwillingness to admit he’s wrong. Again, it emphasizes the simple fact that Peter is not always right.
Quote:
An Analysis Of Spider-Man 3, Part 3: Mary-Jane Watson, Her Characterization, Character Arc and Thematic Purpose...

There’s a common thing against Mary-Jane in these that she’s awful and a bad character. That’s not really true. I’ve seen Spider-Man 3 used as an example for that. There are those that interpret them not liking a character as them being bad. Many female characters get this. I’ve come to the conclusion that women can’t have not nice emotions all the time and can’t have flaws unless they’re cute to some. Her flaws aren’t cute and don’t make her an automatic great girlfriend for Peter and his life as Spider-Man. She’s not fully accepting of the fact that her relationship with him isn’t exactly working because of the responsibilities he has. She doesn’t blame him for this, but she doesn’t like it either. It causes problems in their relationship. Which is kind of the point.

Her poor review: She’s accused of being mean and a swear word in this scene. But Peter is doing what she gets angry at him for doing. Being self absorbed, only concerning himself with his own situation, not taking any time to give any real thought to hers. He makes her situation about his situation and how he triumphs over it. That’s apart of Peter’s character arc in the movie: Him being arrogant and self-centered. She’s in a temperamental place at this point, because her issues with her father are being brought to the surface, so she doesn’t react to this with much patience. They don’t get a chance to have a real conversation about it because he has to go and she doesn’t berate him for it. She just doesn’t say anything, because she wants to have a conversation with her boyfriend, but her boyfriend has a job and he can’t put her ahead of his job to do that.

Her insecurities: This puts Mary-Jane in a bit of an insecure place. No girlfriend wants a boyfriend that’s consumed by his job and doesn’t have time for her, but she can’t tell him that because he has responsibilities that are more important than her problems. She can’t express herself to him because he’s in such a good place and has bigger responsibilities than her and she feels bad because she isn’t and she does want someone to be able to talk to. This is where the counterpoint of her and Peter’s character arcs are: Her insecurity and his arrogance. This leads her to be able to talk to Harry, who is a clean slate for her at the moment. Mary-Jane does get jealous at seeing Peter being adored by the public while she is being rejected from her dream job. It’s a thing that happens with couples when one is more successful than another. It can make you feel like lesser than your mate. People don’t wanna feel like they aren’t good enough like that, especially someone who has already had that feeling for most of their life.

Mary-Jane’s anger: Regardless of this Mary-Jane is supportive of Peter’s accomplishments. She doesn’t want to bring him down. Then Peter cheats on her, which makes her feel even worse about herself. I’ve heard some say that Peter was acting and that he doesn’t get onto her about kissing other guys when she’s acting, so why should she? But Peter isn’t an actor and Gwen isn’t an actress and Gwen wasn’t acting. She was kissing a superhero, along with doing so Peter did this while in the same position as he and MJ were with their kiss. I’ve seen again an argument against her saying that if it was their kiss then why she’d kiss John in a similar way in Spider-Man 2? But she didn’t know it was their kiss at the time because she wasn’t really knowledgeable about Peter being Spider-Man, so she couldn’t view it as anything special between her and Peter. But she doesn’t say anything against him about it and gives him the crap he deserves about it only when she discovers that not only does he have a personal relationship with the girl he cheated on her with that he never told her about, but that she also clearly has a crush on him and one that he obviously knew of himself. He had it coming. So they go on a break, but she goes to him regardless when she’s learns of his Uncle’s killer, and she does the one thing he couldn’t for her: She understands how he feels. And she has got him down to a tee. She knows exactly what he’s out to do: Go out and get himself some reckless stupid selfish vengeance. He blows her off, and she leaves because she can't coddle someone who doesn’t want nor will accept help.

The Harry/Mary-Jane kiss: I’d go against Harry with the kiss before I’d go against MJ. Her and Peter are half-dead in the water and she’s in a messy place emotionally, while he’s not and is in best bud mode with Pete. But I don’t think it’s worth the time. Same with Pete gettin’ hot and heavy in the rain with his supposedly best bud’s girl in Spider-Man 1. All parties involved are to blame. I can’t hate one without hating all. Same goes for Peter trying to break up an engagement after he’s missed his shot in Spider-Man 2. MJ tells him she’s in a relationship, one that’s becoming more than companionship, she gives him a clear opening, and he doesn’t go for it, so she gives him a message that’s even clearer: She’s not waiting anymore, she’s gonna move on. Peter didn’t need to send her signals either after that, but he did. He point blank asked her out, an engaged woman, and she shut him down. The whole situation was unfortunate for everyone involved to be honest. But it’s something that happens all the time, and something that’s not really my place to judge her or Peter on. No matter what though, none of the things that have been listed against her come even close to Peter and Harry’s worst offenses: Actively making choices that they know will hurt or get someone killed in one way or another. Choices that THEY make, no one else. But Mary-Jane gets trashed for her lesser actions, but the male characters don’t really.

Mary-Jane’s character arc: She really does have an interesting arc in this movie that kind of parallels Peter’s from Spider-Man 2. There Peter had to deal with the decision he made at the end of the last movie of being Spider-Man and dismissing anything else in his life. Mary-Jane here has to deal with her decision at the end of Spider-Man 2 of being Spider-Man’s girlfriend and how that effects her as a person. The movie doesn’t really sugarcoat it either. It’s not fun. We see her face her desire to have him when she can’t, his contact with other women, her insecurity at this and how successful he is and even with his life being threatened. She goes through a lot. She would’ve had a more interesting conclusion to her character arc, if there hadn’t been any change at the end of the movie. Originally, Eddie was going to kidnap Gwen and Peter would have gone to Harry for help and Harry would have rejected him. But Mary-Jane would have come and convinced him to help with that speech about forgiveness that was in the trailers, making her the mouthpiece for one of the main themes of the movie. But that got changed. Not to say that getting kidnapped is a bad thing for the character. It doesn’t hurt her as a person and isn’t her fault. She’s not superpowered. She's a regular person. That’s what makes a developed character. But the kidnapping in this case had a bit of a stunting effect on the character in the movie.
God bless you all! God bless everyone!

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Old 02-09-2016, 11:17 PM   #738
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Yeah, that's pretty much the point though lol
lol I think they were meant to be cringey in funny way but most think they just embarrassing.

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