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Old 04-06-2013, 09:17 PM   #176
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

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I like how they're using Roxxon Oil from the comics. This is the first time we've actually seen them explicitly mentioned and not just shown through some Easter Eggs. So now AIM and Roxxon Oil are canon in the MCU through IM3.

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Old 04-06-2013, 09:26 PM   #177
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

I thought the Mandarin clip was okay... just okay. Liked the first clip a lot more.

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Old 04-06-2013, 09:31 PM   #178
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

And Mandarin supposedly won't be the main villain in IM3? To me, that sounds like bulls**t. I've waited 3 Iron Man movies to finally see his epic showdown with the Mandarin, and now he supposedly won't be the real baddie until IM4, despite being in IM3 and played up to be the main villain? What a crock of s**t. Going to wait and see the movie because it might not even be true... Mandarin could even be in a possible Masters of Evil for TA2. If that is where he has a big showdown with Stark, fine. I'd be okay with that... but don't make me wait until IM4.

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Old 04-06-2013, 09:38 PM   #179
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

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And Mandarin supposedly won't be the main villain in IM3? To me, that sounds like bulls**t. I've waited 3 Iron Man movies to finally see his epic showdown with the Mandarin, and now he supposedly won't be the real baddie until IM4, despite being in IM3 and played up to be the main villain? What a crock of s**t. Going to wait and see the movie because it might not even be true... Mandarin could even be in a possible Masters of Evil for TA2. If that is where he has a big showdown with Stark, fine. I'd be okay with that... but don't make me wait until IM4.
Mandarin is the main villain. Killian just happens to be as much the main villain as Mandarin is though.

Mandarin is using Killian for his own agenda and Killian is using Mandarin.

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Old 04-06-2013, 09:49 PM   #180
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

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Mandarin is the main villain. Killian just happens to be as much the main villain as Mandarin is though.

Mandarin is using Killian for his own agenda and Killian is using Mandarin.
Will Mandarin and Stark have the big showdown?

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Old 04-06-2013, 09:52 PM   #181
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Will Mandarin and Stark have the big showdown?
Based on all the rumors I've read, as well as seen in the official merch, yes.

However, I think the real final battle is with Killian and all signs point to that.

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Old 04-06-2013, 09:57 PM   #182
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

So the gist I'm getting is that really Killian is much more than the "cameo" that the actors and producers have been leading us to believe, and Mandarin is much less of the "central villain" than we've been led to believe.

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Old 04-06-2013, 09:57 PM   #183
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

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I thought that was obvious. From the SDCC scene description alone, before Extremis was even confirmed, you could deduce Tony wasn't using extremis to attract the armor. During that scene, he taps something in his arm to make it work. That wouldn't happen with Extremis.
I agree, but not everyone follows the news regularly. Just wanted to clear it up for those, who were wondering whether he takes Extremis during that operation scene in the trailer.

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Old 04-06-2013, 10:03 PM   #184
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

Actually...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
In the movie, no. There are things withheld from the book obviously - but I can not see any way, shape, or form for them to stuff a Mandarin fight in there and not make it seem crammed in. Also ask why we haven't seen any Mandarin action scene in any of the actual promotional material - not in the toys. We see the fight with Killian (probably) and Sevlin (the suit that Tony jumps onto) but not even a single hint of anything bigger happening. We've also only seen Mandarin giving public talks -- and in the novel that's the only thing he does. He doesn't even meet Tony (ask why we haven't seen them in the same room together even in the promotional material). I think he will meet in his mansion, but I won't be surprised if we don't. There is no reason to hide Tony fighting Mandarin or even being in the same room as the Mandarin for even a split second -- it's not like one giant twist ending as in Jean Gray's death.

/\ And that's the big one for me... what would the motivation be in hiding Mandarin's fight with Iron Man or meeting Tony? Unless they don't meet and there is no grand finale. I haven't seen one film not market their final action sequence for even a mili-second before. Iron Man fighting Mandarin isn't a "twist" to hide.

They keep on saying in interviews "we don't want this to be a classic superhero film." Well letting your promoted main bad guy get away without even a showdown does just that. With that said, there is still plenty of action. And it does exactly what they want to do - surprise people who think they know how a superhero film works. You don't have your main bad guy get away. You don't have your hero get random heart attacks. You typically don't set these films during Christmas. It's the anti-superhero formula superhero film.

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Old 04-06-2013, 10:08 PM   #185
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

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Mandarin could even be in a possible Masters of Evil for TA2.
This is what I was thinking. We also have Red Skull who just vanished.

I don't know if a movie around that would work or not though, that's why I'm holding reservations on that and saying IM4.

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Old 04-06-2013, 10:31 PM   #186
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

I don't see where the ending of the novel (which may or may not gibe with the film's ending at all) "sets up" Mandarin's return for IM4, or an Avengers sequel, or anything else. Movies have ALWAYS made the "death" or disappearance of any given villain ambiguous so that studios *can* use that villain again.....if they *want* to. Doesn't mean they *do* want to.

And there's definitely a confrontation between Tony and Mandarin. RDJ has talked at length in interviews about his and Kingsley's scenes together at Vizcaya, which is the setting for "Mandarin's lair."

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they just showed an exclusive clip of mandarin
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
threatening to shoot someone from the US government in front of, i assume, the president,


(put quote in spoilers in case anyone doesnt want to know)

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
"He looks like an innocent man. I will shoot him, in the head in 30 seconds, live on TV."


edit: Ben's now singing haha hes quite good actually.
Not someone from the US government. The hostage is a guy named Keith Thomas Richards --- wait: "Keith Richards?" really? --- of Roxxon Oil.

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Old 04-06-2013, 10:56 PM   #187
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

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Seeing that, they might show how the Mandarin gets away. Or they might just have, as I said earlier, a talking scene. But, also the wording is kind of off -- shooting a lot of Ben stuff then a lot of Rhodey stuff after -- as he says in one interview could just mean shooting Ben's and Rhodey's solo scenes followed. If they do meet in that scene, they wouldn't have met prior or after. As to his injury - he's fighting a lot of extremis guys throughout the base.

You don't set up a villain, let him get away in the end, probably say "I'll get my revenge." And then not see that revenge in the next film -- unless, of course they completely bypass the typical superhero formula again. Not to ignore that Mandarin has been built up for three films now. To keep on building him up just would seem repetitive at this point. Too much talk, not enough seeing why he is powerful. There's only so long you can hold onto that.

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Old 04-06-2013, 11:09 PM   #188
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

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So the gist I'm getting is that really Killian is much more than the "cameo" that the actors and producers have been leading us to believe, and Mandarin is much less of the "central villain" than we've been led to believe.
actually Mandarin seems to be the more central villain, and killian to be the immediate villain..
i am sure marvel wont let Mandarin just be a secondary villain

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Old 04-06-2013, 11:12 PM   #189
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actually Mandarin seems to be the more central villain, and killian to be the immediate villain..
i am sure marvel wont let Mandarin just be a secondary villain
THAT is the best way to put it.

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Old 04-07-2013, 12:19 AM   #190
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

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This is what I was thinking. We also have Red Skull who just vanished.

I don't know if a movie around that would work or not though, that's why I'm holding reservations on that and saying IM4.

Red Skull, Abomination, possibly Mandarin, Zemo, Crossbones, Malekith and/or Kurse. Maybe the Masters will all be orchestrated by Thanos to occupy the Avengers while he attempts to achieve his master plan. Since the cosmic cube took the Red Skull somewhere in the cosmos, I could imagine Thanos finding him.

I'd say a possible Masters of Evil is shaping up quite nicely.

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Old 04-07-2013, 12:49 AM   #191
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

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I like how they're using Roxxon Oil from the comics. This is the first time we've actually seen them explicitly mentioned and not just shown through some Easter Eggs. So now AIM and Roxxon Oil are canon in the MCU through IM3.

Those Roxxon Easter Eggs were pretty cool, though. When the Roxxon race car popped up in IM2 I was pleasantly surprised. And of course Phil Coulson thwarted a robbery at a Roxxon gas station on the way to Thor's hammer. All this gave me hope that we might see a version of the Sunturion in a later installment of the Iron Man series.

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Old 04-07-2013, 01:26 AM   #192
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

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Actually...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
In the movie, no. There are things withheld from the book obviously - but I can not see any way, shape, or form for them to stuff a Mandarin fight in there and not make it seem crammed in. Also ask why we haven't seen any Mandarin action scene in any of the actual promotional material - not in the toys. We see the fight with Killian (probably) and Sevlin (the suit that Tony jumps onto) but not even a single hint of anything bigger happening. We've also only seen Mandarin giving public talks -- and in the novel that's the only thing he does. He doesn't even meet Tony (ask why we haven't seen them in the same room together even in the promotional material). I think he will meet in his mansion, but I won't be surprised if we don't. There is no reason to hide Tony fighting Mandarin or even being in the same room as the Mandarin for even a split second -- it's not like one giant twist ending as in Jean Gray's death.

/\ And that's the big one for me... what would the motivation be in hiding Mandarin's fight with Iron Man or meeting Tony? Unless they don't meet and there is no grand finale. I haven't seen one film not market their final action sequence for even a mili-second before. Iron Man fighting Mandarin isn't a "twist" to hide.

They keep on saying in interviews "we don't want this to be a classic superhero film." Well letting your promoted main bad guy get away without even a showdown does just that. With that said, there is still plenty of action. And it does exactly what they want to do - surprise people who think they know how a superhero film works. You don't have your main bad guy get away. You don't have your hero get random heart attacks. You typically don't set these films during Christmas. It's the anti-superhero formula superhero film.
You can't have a big ole finale battle scene and then call it an anti-superhero film.

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Old 04-07-2013, 02:13 AM   #193
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

You just missed 85% of what I was saying. In which the details of what I was saying IS important. I didn't say any old action scene. I said between the hero and supposed villain of the piece. It also is probably one of the elements they decided to use based upon THEIR notion of an anti-superhero superhero film. They didn't want to do the same old, their goal was to deconstruct the genre then go against it as they've stated and that accomplishes.


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Old 04-07-2013, 02:31 AM   #194
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

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Those Roxxon Easter Eggs were pretty cool, though. When the Roxxon race car popped up in IM2 I was pleasantly surprised. And of course Phil Coulson thwarted a robbery at a Roxxon gas station on the way to Thor's hammer. All this gave me hope that we might see a version of the Sunturion in a later installment of the Iron Man series.
I definitely think we're going to see Sunturion in an Iron Man film one day, but they're also definitely going to have to rework his origins a bit lol. I think having Roxxon do something in collaboration with AIM would work though.

As for this MoE talk, I'd really rather not see them right now, especially with an incarnation made up of all the heros' major villains. A team composed of more minor guys like Coldblood, Crossbones, Batroc, Justin Hammer, etc would make more sense. But either way, I don't feel right now is the time for it. Thanos wouldn't use a MoE anyway.

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Old 04-07-2013, 03:19 AM   #195
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

gosh this is my least favorite thread now.. I can't click anything but I want to be involved in convos haha. Onto Thor and Cap forums for now.

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Old 04-07-2013, 04:03 AM   #196
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

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I definitely think we're going to see Sunturion in an Iron Man film one day, but they're also definitely going to have to rework his origins a bit lol. I think having Roxxon do something in collaboration with AIM would work though.

As for this MoE talk, I'd really rather not see them right now, especially with an incarnation made up of all the heros' major villains. A team composed of more minor guys like Coldblood, Crossbones, Batroc, Justin Hammer, etc would make more sense. But either way, I don't feel right now is the time for it. Thanos wouldn't use a MoE anyway.
It's very believable in my opinion that Thanos would orchestrate the Masters of Evil as a diversion for The Avengers. The first half of the movie being The Avengers facing the Masters,then towards the end the Guardians come into the mix to team-up in a huge showdown against Thanos, who now has the Infinity Gauntlet.

The Masters of Evil are just that... They are masters at their craft. The villains I was talking about(excluding Crossbones) are more classifiable as masters than the henchmen you've mentioned or even Justin Hammer. Perhaps excluding Kurse as well... and I presume Malekith will be a powerful threat.


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Old 04-07-2013, 04:33 AM   #197
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Slightly better quality of the clip, captured from ITV Player...


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Old 04-07-2013, 05:53 AM   #198
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Default Re: The IRON MAN 3 News & Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

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You just missed 85% of what I was saying. In which the details of what I was saying IS important. I didn't say any old action scene. I said between the hero and supposed villain of the piece. It also is probably one of the elements they decided to use based upon THEIR notion of an anti-superhero superhero film. They didn't want to do the same old, their goal was to deconstruct the genre then go against it as they've stated and that accomplishes.
All your points do not deconstruct the genre. A deconstruction of the genre is what the Watchmen book was. This isn't that. It is very much in keeping with the basics of action, adventure and superhero films. Presenting another villain to fight instead of the one promised, isn't a revolution. The baddie who gets away or avoids confrontation is not something new.

If the film ends with a big action sequence, it doesn't matter who is fought, it still ending with a big action sequence against a villain, one who will presumably have a presence pre-battle.

To be continued... is not something that deconstructs the genre. Nor is including Christmas or an physically unwell or mentally troubled hero. If your biggest selling point is that they skip the skirmish before the baddie gets away, I just can't agree.

Want a deconstruction? Tell the story from the Mandarin's point of view, and make him the sympathetic party. But do so without writing him or Tony any differently then you usually would.

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Old 04-07-2013, 07:25 AM   #199
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And Mandarin supposedly won't be the main villain in IM3? To me, that sounds like bulls**t. I've waited 3 Iron Man movies to finally see his epic showdown with the Mandarin, and now he supposedly won't be the real baddie until IM4, despite being in IM3 and played up to be the main villain? What a crock of s**t. Going to wait and see the movie because it might not even be true... Mandarin could even be in a possible Masters of Evil for TA2. If that is where he has a big showdown with Stark, fine. I'd be okay with that... but don't make me wait until IM4.
If this scenario happens, I'm done with the MCU because you can't invest emotionally into the stories anymore because all they'll continue to do is push the goal posts further down the line and there'll never be a resolution....

This scenario in Iron Man 3 can not happen.

 
Old 04-07-2013, 08:39 AM   #200
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If this scenario happens, I'm done with the MCU because you can't invest emotionally into the stories anymore because all they'll continue to do is push the goal posts further down the line and there'll never be a resolution....

This scenario in Iron Man 3 can not happen.
Agreed. I don't think IM3 is going to push Mandarin back to IM4, or even Avengers 3. I think IM3 is the *only* movie that we'll ever see Kingsley as Mandarin. (Hell, Kingsley would be at least 74 by the time Avengers 3 came out, and a theoretical IM4 is farther away than even that.....what, would Mandarin attack Tony with his walker and AARP card....?)

And I don't get these whiners threatening to "quit the MCU" if Mandarin doesn't turn out to have as much of a villain role as Killian. Hell, on up until a few months ago, Feige and Black were assuring us that Mandarin wasn't even in the movie. Now that they've found a way to put him in, without making him into the lame-ass caricature he is in the comic books (not to mention a racist stereotype that would offend half the audience), they're gonna jump ship because Killian might wind up having as big or bigger a role in the conflict with Tony....?

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