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Old 09-05-2017, 04:02 PM   #326
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

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Here is the question though. How much do these players cost in total? Players that would make a legitimate difference? Not just transfer cost, but wages and agent fees. And how many of these players would rather go elsewhere, for more money, better coaching, a chance to win the league and CL football? I am not saying they did not create this problem, but it most certainly exist now no matter who is to blame. Especially with their bad squad.
See I don't actually think it would cost that much to sign a couple of players that could really make a massive difference to that squad. I think what Arsenal are lacking & have been lacking for the last 10+ years are legitimate backbone players more than anything else.

I'm talking along the likes of your I'm thinking of players, to liken them to former Arsenal players, like Lauren, Gilberto Silva, Edu, Ljungberg & Parlour. Players that can do a consistent reliable job be it defensively or offensively.

Those sorts or players are available, every team in the Premiership has 1 or 2, obviously they all won't be good enough or suitable for Arsenal but I'm sure a couple of them would.

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Old 09-05-2017, 05:04 PM   #327
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See I don't actually think it would cost that much to sign a couple of players that could really make a massive difference to that squad. I think what Arsenal are lacking & have been lacking for the last 10+ years are legitimate backbone players more than anything else.

I'm talking along the likes of your I'm thinking of players, to liken them to former Arsenal players, like Lauren, Gilberto Silva, Edu, Ljungberg & Parlour. Players that can do a consistent reliable job be it defensively or offensively.

Those sorts or players are available, every team in the Premiership has 1 or 2, obviously they all won't be good enough or suitable for Arsenal but I'm sure a couple of them would.
How much did Matic cost United? Who is available and how much would they cost?

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Old 09-05-2017, 05:14 PM   #328
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

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How much did Matic cost United? Who is available and how much would they cost?
£40M I believe.

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Old 09-05-2017, 05:57 PM   #329
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

Arsenal's problem is Wenger crushes all the confidence or verve the squad might have right out of them. I honestly think they've signed the Gilberto Silvas or had the money to, and just not executed properly.

Granit Xhaka was £40m, Mustafi was £35m, Calum Chambers was £20m, Alexis Sanchez was £40m, Ozil was £40m, they got a player of season Bundesliga player on a free in Kolasinac on a free. By contrast Matic was £40m, Kante was £35m, Wijnaldum was £25m, Alderweireld was £15m, quality players are available for reasonable amounts. The only common denominator in terms of the football is Arsene Wenger, it's impossible that players with the quality and experience like Mustafi or Sanchez could suddenly decline so much for no reason and you've got potential PL quality players like Chambers, Xhaka, and Lucas Perez that regress instead of develop under Wenger's management.

Mourinho can manage to get Jones performing (received zero credit for it, interestingly), Pochettino can assemble almost-title winners from the kinds of hit-and-miss prospects Wenger loves buying 5 or 6 of every window, so it's possible to get results using non-world class players.

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Old 09-05-2017, 05:58 PM   #330
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

Yeah when you reel of that list, all those players combined could have had a good impact on the team with the right supportive background.

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Old 09-05-2017, 06:05 PM   #331
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They really would've, yeah. Put Mustafi in Liverpool's defense, he'll be impressing. Put Ozil in Spurs' line-up, he'll be notching up assists. Put Kolasinac at WB for Chelsea, he'd look twice as good as Alonso probably. I hate seeing Wenger crash and burn like this but the truth is the results lie with him, no other manager escapes consequences like he has and now that he's being taken to task it's getting ugly because 10 years of frustrations are all being aimed at him at once.

He's making flabbergasting decisions like deciding to bench the Bundesliga LB of the season to play Hector Bellerin on his unfavored flank and continuing with Welbeck and leaving their new club record signing on the bench too. If Klopp signed Salah and left him on the bench and Liverpool lost then the pundits and fans would rake him over the coals, if Mourinho benched Lukaku and played Lingard instead there would be hell to pay. The sad fact is if you take Ozil, Sanchez, Mustafi, Kolasinac, and Xhaka and you distribute them among United/Chelsea/Liverpool/Spurs/City you'd see quality, decently performing players - it's Arsenal that's busy corroding everyone's ability.

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Old 09-05-2017, 06:06 PM   #332
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

Same here. I think I supported Wenger for longer than most here and I'm being proven wrong.

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Old 09-05-2017, 06:10 PM   #333
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I've always felt a neutral respect for him, he took a team of Lehmann, Eboue, Kolo Toure, Campbell, A. Cole, Gilberto Silva, Fabregas, Hleb, Ljungberg and Henry to a CL final ten years ago, it's clear he can do it - but his time's up. He's the same age SAF was when he bowed out, it's just time to go and he needs to stop being stubborn about it and make the decision before he completely ruins the best legacy the club has.

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Old 09-05-2017, 06:30 PM   #334
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

England did well last night, I thought Rashford showed a lot of maturity after being at fault for Slovakia's goal, he took on a lot of attacking responsibility and as the one who looked most likely to open them up in the first half, linked up well with Dele and scored a quality goal.

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Old 09-05-2017, 06:32 PM   #335
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

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I've always felt a neutral respect for him, he took a team of Lehmann, Eboue, Kolo Toure, Campbell, A. Cole, Gilberto Silva, Fabregas, Hleb, Ljungberg and Henry to a CL final ten years ago, it's clear he can do it - but his time's up. He's the same age SAF was when he bowed out, it's just time to go and he needs to stop being stubborn about it and make the decision before he completely ruins the best legacy the club has.
It was time to go a fair while ago. Many others have been saying it for a long time. Doubt there are too many fans left who still think it a good idea for him to continue.

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Old 09-05-2017, 06:32 PM   #336
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How much did Matic cost United? Who is available and how much would they cost?
£40m I think.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/397434

Take a look for yourself. It depends entirely on what Arsenal were looking for this summer, I'd gather a CB & CM if I'd to guess, 2 standout names that would fit the quota of being consistent & reliable that actually moved within the Premiership would be Leicester's Drinkwater (now Chelsea) & Burnley's Keane (now Everton). One was £30m rising to £35m & the other was £25m rising to £30m I believe. Both still to hit their peak years, wouldn't call either world class (at least currently), but consistent, reliable & more than good enough for where Arsenal are currently & what they're lacking.

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Old 09-05-2017, 06:33 PM   #337
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

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England did well last night, I thought Rashford showed a lot of maturity after being at fault for Slovakia's goal, he took on a lot of attacking responsibility and as the one who looked most likely to open them up in the first half, linked up well with Dele and scored a quality goal.
Rashford really has a lot of potential. Really hope he can turn into a top player under Mourinho.

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Old 09-05-2017, 07:30 PM   #338
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

Far better midfield for Argentina tonight vs Venezuela (Paredes included)

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Old 09-05-2017, 07:55 PM   #339
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Urgh Argentina should be up by 8 goals by now (20min first half)

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Old 09-05-2017, 08:08 PM   #340
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£40m I think.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/397434

Take a look for yourself. It depends entirely on what Arsenal were looking for this summer, I'd gather a CB & CM if I'd to guess, 2 standout names that would fit the quota of being consistent & reliable that actually moved within the Premiership would be Leicester's Drinkwater (now Chelsea) & Burnley's Keane (now Everton). One was £30m rising to £35m & the other was £25m rising to £30m I believe. Both still to hit their peak years, wouldn't call either world class (at least currently), but consistent, reliable & more than good enough for where Arsenal are currently & what they're lacking.
And why would either of them have gone to Arsenal instead?

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Old 09-05-2017, 08:39 PM   #341
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And why would either of them have gone to Arsenal instead?
I have no idea I don't know either player personally nor their motivations for leaving Leicester & Burnley.

Arsenal are a big club so why wouldn't they consider them if the offers were laid out at the same time?

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Old 09-05-2017, 08:42 PM   #342
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I have no idea I don't know either player personally nor their motivations for leaving Leicester & Burnley.

Arsenal are a big club so why wouldn't they consider them if the offers were laid out at the same time?
Because of money, Wenger and Arsenal being a mess. That is the entire point. Arsenal is no longer a desirable destination.

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Old 09-05-2017, 09:05 PM   #343
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Because of money, Wenger and Arsenal being a mess. That is the entire point. Arsenal is no longer a desirable destination.
Arsenal weren't a mess before the season started though. They have become one because of their lack of transfer activity & because they've lost 2 out of the opening 3 Premiership games including a 4-0 pasting from Liverpool.

As for money, you don't think Arsenal could match Everton's wages for Keane? Same with Drinkwater & Chelsea, he isn't going to be on anything that would have been beyond Arsenal's budget.

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Old 09-05-2017, 09:21 PM   #344
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Arsenal weren't a mess before the season started though. They have become one because of their lack of transfer activity & because they've lost 2 out of the opening 3 Premiership games including a 4-0 pasting from Liverpool.

As for money, you don't think Arsenal could match Everton's wages for Keane? Same with Drinkwater & Chelsea, he isn't going to be on anything that would have been beyond Arsenal's budget.
Arsenal has been a mess for a decade, getting worse every season. Their two best players want to leave. Their only two superstars. Wenger is still there.

And nope, they can't match do to their wage structure. They'd have to give everyone a raise. They also didn't have the money while trying to resign Alexis and Ozil.

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Old 09-05-2017, 10:17 PM   #345
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Arsenal has been a mess for a decade, getting worse every season. Their two best players want to leave. Their only two superstars. Wenger is still there.
What's your definition of mess? Not winning the Premiership?

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And nope, they can't match do to their wage structure. They'd have to give everyone a raise. They also didn't have the money while trying to resign Alexis and Ozil.
How exactly would Danny Drinkwater or Michael Keane's wages have disrupted the balance of Arsenal's wage structure?

Keane's on around £50k- £60k at Everton & Drinkwater I would imagine is hovering in & around £80k - £90k at Chelsea. If anything those sort of wages would fit in perfectly with what Arsenal are paying their current starters. It's the deals, or at least the deals the players want, with Ozil/Sanchez that are going to disrupt their wage structure make everyone want a payrise given that both of them are no doubt talking about upwards of £200k p/w.

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Old 09-05-2017, 10:47 PM   #346
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What's your definition of mess? Not winning the Premiership?
Not winning a legit title for 13 years. There is the League and the CL. The cups have been irrelevant for years. They haven't gotten close to either in 11 years. Only gotten worse.

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How exactly would Danny Drinkwater or Michael Keane's wages have disrupted the balance of Arsenal's wage structure?

Keane's on around £50k- £60k at Everton & Drinkwater I would imagine is hovering in & around £80k - £90k at Chelsea. If anything those sort of wages would fit in perfectly with what Arsenal are paying their current starters. It's the deals, or at least the deals the players want, with Ozil/Sanchez that are going to disrupt their wage structure make everyone want a payrise given that both of them are no doubt talking about upwards of £200k p/w.
Simple. Anything Arsenal would have offered, Everton and Chelsea would have just offered a little more until they said, never mind. At which case the players would have gone to Arsenal, or gone to a the clubs with actual ambitions for a little less. Just like how Chamberlain did the same thing.

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Old 09-06-2017, 02:59 AM   #347
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

I am kinda disappointed Mahrez didn't get his move- any move. He was the ONLY player that behaved professionally during the transfer window amid interest from teams while so many players sulked in the corner. That he didn't get his move reinforces the notion that such antics are necessary.

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Old 09-06-2017, 03:10 AM   #348
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I am kinda disappointed Mahrez didn't get his move- any move. He was the ONLY player that behaved professionally during the transfer window amid interest from teams while so many players sulked in the corner. That he didn't get his move reinforces the notion that such antics are necessary.
He should have moved last year, when he was more valuable. He is so talented, but last season didn't help him with suitors.

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Old 09-06-2017, 01:57 PM   #349
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Not winning a legit title for 13 years. There is the League and the CL. The cups have been irrelevant for years. They haven't gotten close to either in 11 years. Only gotten worse.
Just because a team hasn't won the League or Champions League doesn't mean they've been in a constant mess since the last time they've won either trophy..

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Simple. Anything Arsenal would have offered, Everton and Chelsea would have just offered a little more until they said, never mind. At which case the players would have gone to Arsenal, or gone to a the clubs with actual ambitions for a little less. Just like how Chamberlain did the same thing.


Everton & Chelsea have wage structures as well just the same as Arsenal. Particularly Everton, they wouldn't be capable of 1 upping Arsenal on wages for a player if it turned into a bidding war. Chelsea might, but would they? Drinkwater's likely to be a rotation option for Kante/Fabregas so they aren't going to pay him more than either of those 2 nor considerably higher than any other players that are filling similar roles within the squad.

Chamberlain still got his pay rise from his previous Arsenal contract by going to Liverpool, just allegedly not quite as much as what Arsenal had offered him to renew. Chamberlain's a boyhood Liverpool fan though & I'd guess he was getting tired with being played out of position at Arsenal. Wouldn't surmise it's anything to do with ambition as we both know if we aren't going to be ignorant about the subject that Arsenal have the same aspirations as Liverpool.

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Old 09-06-2017, 02:00 PM   #350
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I am kinda disappointed Mahrez didn't get his move- any move. He was the ONLY player that behaved professionally during the transfer window amid interest from teams while so many players sulked in the corner. That he didn't get his move reinforces the notion that such antics are necessary.
I'm surprised he hasn't moved as well, perhaps Leicester are looking to much for him or just unwilling to sell. I'd have thought Arsenal, United, Spurs or Liverpool might have made a move for him in the summer.

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