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View Poll Results: Which movie is better ?
Black Panther 21 23.33%
The Dark Knight 69 76.67%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-19-2018, 03:38 PM   #76
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

The way CBM fans are so desperate for whatever flavor of the month movie to beat TDK is kind of pathetic...

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Old 03-19-2018, 03:40 PM   #77
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

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The way CBM fans are so desperate for whatever flavor of the month movie to beat TDK is kind of pathetic...
The thread was started by someone with TDK in his username and that ranks TDK as #1 so your criticism is misplaced. If it's anything, although I don't want to put any opinions on the TS as I don't know his intentions, it's rather a case of TDK fans trying to point out that their favorite is better than a new popular film.

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Old 03-19-2018, 03:52 PM   #78
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

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Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
The thread was started by someone with TDK in his username and that ranks TDK as #1 so your criticism is misplaced. If it's anything, although I don't want to put any opinions on the TS as I don't know his intentions, it's rather a case of TDK fans trying to point out that their favorite is better than a new popular film.
Yep, it was launched when BP's worldwide gross passed JL's entire run.

Though I would change "point out" to "assert".

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Old 03-19-2018, 05:54 PM   #79
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

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Yep, it was launched when BP's worldwide gross passed JL's entire run.

Though I would change "point out" to "assert".
It's basically the ONLY DC film that wins any poll around here though. If it wasn't for TDK this place would be called MarvelHeroHype.

Plus it is the standard. For better or worse.

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Old 03-20-2018, 11:48 AM   #80
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

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Plus it is the standard. For better or worse.
I disagree completely. I see it as more an attempt to make a serious film based on comic book characters than an actual comic book movie, for the type who read graphic novels because they thought they were cooler than comic books.

Iron Man was an actual comic book movie; it realized the medium onscreen realistically without ever taking itself more seriously than deserved. It set the standard, and started what is arguably the most incredibly successful series ever.

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Old 03-20-2018, 12:36 PM   #81
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

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I disagree completely. I see it as more an attempt to make a serious film based on comic book characters than an actual comic book movie, for the type who read graphic novels because they thought they were cooler than comic books.

Iron Man was an actual comic book movie; it realized the medium onscreen realistically without ever taking itself more seriously than deserved. It set the standard, and started what is arguably the most incredibly successful series ever.
Not true. Iron Man is not the movie that is held up as the standard of comic book movies by the consensus. It's not even held up as the standard for the MCU. Kick starting a successful franchise doesn't make that first movie the standard everything else is measured by. Look at the likes of the Harry Potter and James Bond franchises. How many fans would rate the first entries in those as the standard to be measured by?

You rarely see IM considered as the best entry of the MCU. It's rarely even in the top 3. Especially with Winter Soldier, CW, Avengers, and now BP. I suspect Infinity War will push it down even further. IM is a solid movie, but the standard for CBMs or even the MCU it ain't. It's why every time we get a good CBM you don't see IM pitted against it in a poll because it would likely lose against the more heavy hitters that have come after it, and some even before it would probably top it.

I bet even Wonder Woman would top it or at least give it a run for its money. I can't even think of any CBMs that took inspiration from IM. But I can think of many that took inspiration from the likes of TDK and Donner's Superman. They are individual movies that set standards others have tried to aspire to. Even Batman Begins set a standard that inspired the reboot craze and influenced origin movies. Jon Favreau was even inspired by it's greatness when making IM;

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Did you have a vision of the movie in your head?
‘Christopher Nolan’s “Batman Begins” set the bar very high for the superhero movie, as it showed that you could get a great cast for these movies and take a real filmmaker’s perspective. There were some other superhero movies, the titles of which I don’t want to mention, that were making a lot of money and which I thought were trash. I didn’t want to end up making one of those types of movies, I wanted to make a movie like Christopher’s.’
https://www.timeout.com/london/film/...au-interview-1

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Old 03-20-2018, 01:17 PM   #82
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

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Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
The thread was started by someone with TDK in his username and that ranks TDK as #1 so your criticism is misplaced. If it's anything, although I don't want to put any opinions on the TS as I don't know his intentions, it's rather a case of TDK fans trying to point out that their favorite is better than a new popular film.
That doesn't negate the deluge of "BP is better for sure!" responses his (borderline) troll topic generated, and my observation of the trend stands. The perpetual comparisons to TDK a decade after its release is not only moderately pathetic, but also indicates what a seminal movie it actually was since it's still seemingly considered the gold standard for this genre.

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Old 03-20-2018, 01:20 PM   #83
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

I'd choose over TDK so my vote goes to BP easily.

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Old 03-20-2018, 02:01 PM   #84
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Th Frown Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

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Originally Posted by DeadPresident View Post
That doesn't negate the deluge of "BP is better for sure!" responses his (borderline) troll topic generated, and my observation of the trend stands. The perpetual comparisons to TDK a decade after its release is not only moderately pathetic, but also indicates what a seminal movie it actually was since it's still seemingly considered the gold standard for this genre.
I'm sorry but I see no merit to your point since people are answering a question that was asked, and not by a BP supporter. If you saw a bunch of people bringing up TDK in BP threads for no reason in order to say that BP is better I'd see some point to what you say, but right now it's just the other way around. This thread was created to again bring up TDK in relation to a newer film, and we have more people saying that TDK is far superior to everything in the genre.

So no, I think that if it's anything it's the opposite of what you're saying.

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Old 03-20-2018, 02:06 PM   #85
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

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I bet even Wonder Woman would top it or at least give it a run for its money. I can't even think of any CBMs that took inspiration from IM. But I can think of many that took inspiration from the likes of TDK and Donner's Superman. They are individual movies that set standards others have tried to aspire to. Even Batman Begins set a standard that inspired the reboot craze and influenced origin movies. Jon Favreau was even inspired by it's greatness when making IM;



https://www.timeout.com/london/film/...au-interview-1
Thor and Captain America: The First Avenger both did. They both used the flashback as a framing device element Iron Man used in the opening. I'd also argue the overall comedic juggling the way the MCU does it started with Iron Man. As influential as Donner Superman or TDK? No, but influential? Yes.

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Old 03-20-2018, 02:39 PM   #86
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

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That doesn't negate the deluge of "BP is better for sure!" responses his (borderline) troll topic generated, and my observation of the trend stands. The perpetual comparisons to TDK a decade after its release is not only moderately pathetic, but also indicates what a seminal movie it actually was since it's still seemingly considered the gold standard for this genre.
I tend to put the trolls down as the pathetic ones in the ledger over here, but to each his own.

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Thor and Captain America: The First Avenger both did. They both used the flashback as a framing device element Iron Man used in the opening. I'd also argue the overall comedic juggling the way the MCU does it started with Iron Man. As influential as Donner Superman or TDK? No, but influential? Yes.
Second this. Iron Man's cinematic handprints are all over the MCU.

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Old 03-20-2018, 02:42 PM   #87
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

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I tend to put the trolls down as the pathetic ones in the ledger over here, but to each his own.
I see what you did there.

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Old 03-20-2018, 03:03 PM   #88
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

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Thor and Captain America: The First Avenger both did. They both used the flashback as a framing device element Iron Man used in the opening. I'd also argue the overall comedic juggling the way the MCU does it started with Iron Man. As influential as Donner Superman or TDK? No, but influential? Yes.
What flashback are you talking about? Do you mean having flashbacks in the opening sequences? Batman Begins used flashback in its opening scenes as a framing device, too. According to Favreau, he was inspired by BB for IM. So if we want to be technical, they have BB to thank for that.

As for the comedic juggling, I'd argue Raimi's Spider-Man movies started that. The first two had a fine balance of comedic juggling with serious drama. SM-3 went overboard with the comedy, but then a common complaint against the MCU is it is too comedic.

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Old 03-20-2018, 06:03 PM   #89
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

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What flashback are you talking about? Do you mean having flashbacks in the opening sequences? Batman Begins used flashback in its opening scenes as a framing device, too. According to Favreau, he was inspired by BB for IM. So if we want to be technical, they have BB to thank for that.

As for the comedic juggling, I'd argue Raimi's Spider-Man movies started that. The first two had a fine balance of comedic juggling with serious drama. SM-3 went overboard with the comedy, but then a common complaint against the MCU is it is too comedic.
The MCU doesn't do it the same way Raimi did, though. Raimi would insert comedy at times, but not in the same way Iron Man did. Raimi's comedy doesn't jar a scene the way MCU comedy does. It's very Whedon/Apatow-esque how the MCU does it, while the SM movies are distincly Raimi's style. Batman Begins had flashbacks, but it didn't do like a half flashback where it started in Act 2, went back to act 1, and then the movie played out normally. It had standard flashbacks to like when he was a kid and such. It's different.

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Old 03-20-2018, 07:28 PM   #90
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

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The MCU doesn't do it the same way Raimi did, though. Raimi would insert comedy at times, but not in the same way Iron Man did. Raimi's comedy doesn't jar a scene the way MCU comedy does. It's very Whedon/Apatow-esque how the MCU does it, while the SM movies are distincly Raimi's style. Batman Begins had flashbacks, but it didn't do like a half flashback where it started in Act 2, went back to act 1, and then the movie played out normally. It had standard flashbacks to like when he was a kid and such. It's different.
Yeah, because random dancing Peter Parker is not jarring....

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Old 03-20-2018, 07:29 PM   #91
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

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Yeah, because random dancing Peter Parker is not jarring....
But that was a scene entirely meant to be goofy, not a serious scene that became goofy. Raimi did more the opposite, take a goofy scene that becomes serious (see the Jazz club scene). In Iron Man, plenty of serious scenes are under cut with comedy, and the MCU does it frequently. It's not a complaint, it's an observation.

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Old 03-21-2018, 01:33 AM   #92
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

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Yeah, because random dancing Peter Parker is not jarring....
I loved evil disco Peter Parker, when he's doing the John Travolta strut. It was so ridiculous that it worked

That actually made the movie for me, because up until then I was bored **** less .

Now Peter's club dancing.....that's just awful.

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Old 03-21-2018, 03:20 AM   #93
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

imo Civil War beat TDK by a hair. But that's not to say Nolan's masterpiece of the genre has been tarnished. If Infinity War beats it, i'll be surprised. Not impossible, but certainly a feat.

And Deadpool 1 was up there imo, so Deadpool 2 could also be spitting distance. I doubt any other CBMs this year will rival TDK.

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Old 03-21-2018, 08:57 AM   #94
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I think Black Panther 2 has a solid shot at topping The Dark Knight, but Black Panther is only better than Batman Begins.
This is the correct answer.

Its #2 on my list though. Tied with a few others. TDK still the clear #1. Coogler's gotta improve his ability to shoot action and Marvel's gotta give him a bit more freedom on the sequel.

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Old 03-21-2018, 09:16 AM   #95
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The unique thing about BP is that plenty of black folks would vote BP ahead of TDK because of the themes raised which are unique to their experiences -- and they wouldn't be wrong. Read a few reviews which look deeper into the movie, like how the final fight's setting is an analogue for the underground railroad, how Killmonger's swag represents the problematic hypermasculinity of black males. All very interesting.
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This one is about as close as two movies get. When I think about the two headlining characters in each film, I have to give a slight edge to T'Challa over Batman, while Joker tops Killmonger. Both have excellent wild card characters in Harvey Dent and M'Baku. Both expertly executed storylines where the hero's closest confidant (Gordon and Okoye) were caught between the imperative of his/her job and loyalty to the hero. Both had intricate weaponry and gadgets that were essential to their respective films.

So how did I choose? It was similar to picking a winner in a basketball game where the starting 5 are about even as well as the first 3 guys off the respective benches. Then I realized that Black Panther did a little better at making memorable minor characters like N'Jobu and W'Kabi when pitted against characters like The Chechen and Maroni.
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TDK is the 2 eyed man amongst a group of one eyed and blind men and even then it still needs contact lenses. It obviously stands out like a star player.

However, BP came out with excellence covering a good 97% of every facet. NO wins for me.
The shame is BP had the possibly have the potential to be as good as TDK. Its the best assembled cast and crew to do a comic book move since the Nolan films. That's why its got incredible reviews. The craft and talent elevate it to another level. However, there are a few things that kept it from elevating to that TDK level...


I think Coogler/Marvel didn't execute and trust giving it that powerful 3rd act to really leave you in awe.

Its the 2nd best reviewed comicbook movie of all time between critic and audience site averages (According to Screen Junkies.)

I'd argue that's its story is the deepest and most political of any comic book movie. There's so many think pieces being posted that breaks down the many layers and depth the movie covers under the guise of a Superhero film.

A little more trust from Marvel and more confidence from Coogler behind the camera could have took it to that level. Nolan's just a better filmmaker at this point/when making comic book movies as well.

Otherwise they would have filmed a lot of in Africa to give it more space and ground to operate in instead of studio/soundstage. It also wouldn't have worried future films or tying itself to the larger MCU. Nolan/WB (at the time) probably make sure Black Panther is at least 2hr 30 mins if not more.

The cast, the ideas, the depth are there, but Marvel/Coogler just aren't operating at the level of WB/Nolan during that time.

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Old 04-07-2018, 01:19 AM   #96
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

funny, just had a look over forum.blu-ray.com for CBM polls and TDK beats the **** out of all other movies, just like in this forum

But sure as hell if Black Panther can get a Best Picture nod next year, things will be very different.

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Old 04-09-2018, 11:53 AM   #97
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But sure as hell if Black Panther can get a Best Picture nod next year, things will be very different.
That would be so stupid. Unless Oscar season straight up sucked.

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Old 04-09-2018, 12:05 PM   #98
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

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funny, just had a look over forum.blu-ray.com for CBM polls and TDK beats the **** out of all other movies, just like in this forum

But sure as hell if Black Panther can get a Best Picture nod next year, things will be very different.
I don't see why that would make anything different. The Academy isn't a body that decides what the best films are, they are just expressing their opinions.

Just as consensus on forums have no bearing on what the best films are, as that's always decided individually.

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Old 04-09-2018, 12:10 PM   #99
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Default Re: Black Panther (2018) vs The Dark Knight (2008)

If WW was in the conversation to get a best director/picture nom, then BP certainly deserves that buzz. It's a better movie and a bigger cultural moment, but it kind of doesn't matter either way since neither has/had a chance of winning.

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Old 04-09-2018, 12:43 PM   #100
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The Dark Knight by far.

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