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Old 01-16-2018, 07:51 PM   #26
NotNickFury
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Default Re: eXtraction | X-roads | The Gifted's two episode finale

Don't think I've heard ANY-one draw any similarities between Polaris and Charles. One could make the call that Lorna is headed towards terrorism, sure, but at least from her perspective, she's not committing violence for violence's sake, as Erik was willing to do in First Class, but make a better world for her child, not necessarily because she believes in mutant supremacy. At least not yet, anyway.

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Old 01-16-2018, 08:13 PM   #27
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Default Re: eXtraction | X-roads | The Gifted's two episode finale

But violent speciesists (or racists) do not see their violence as unmotivated.
Almost all the genocidal villains see themselves as the heroes, even in real life.
IMO that's indeed the best argument in favor of Xavier's (or Malcom X's, who's a better parallel than MLK) philosophy and restrain.

I meant that I see people equating Polaris actions to self-defense, not Xavier, and I disagree: what she did is more akin to a preemptive strike.

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Old 01-16-2018, 08:50 PM   #28
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Default Re: eXtraction | X-roads | The Gifted's two episode finale

The preemptive strike wasn't Campbell shooting and apparently killing Dreamer?

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Old 01-16-2018, 09:05 PM   #29
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Default Re: eXtraction | X-roads | The Gifted's two episode finale

No, Campbell's was straight terrorism.

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Polaris downed a plane also full of people who hadn't done anything violent as far as we know.
Even if in retaliation, and it wasn't directly correlated anyway, that's still terrorism on her part, methods and tactics do not have to meet the enemies' ones.

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Old 01-16-2018, 09:57 PM   #30
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Default Re: eXtraction | X-roads | The Gifted's two episode finale

I would more call it a political assassination of a popular U.S. Senator and soon to be Presidential candidate (who was returning to D.C. to push through a bill nationalizing the Hound program) and Campbell with Trask Industries employees getting the short end of the stick.

I imagine the news reports in The Gifted version of America would lead with it as an assassination over a terrorism angle. Though Lorna was already designated and charged as a terrorist from events in the first episode so the headlines would be along the lines of 'escaped mutant terrorist kills U.S. Senator'.

Do I think Lorna factored this into her thinking? Yes. But, this version of America has basically already decided to do away with the mutants and her calculation I suspect is that the events will put the SS and Trask Industries enough on the back foot to providing breathing room for mutants to build their own network to fight back from the inside through the Hellfire Club.


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Old 01-16-2018, 10:36 PM   #31
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Default Re: eXtraction | X-roads | The Gifted's two episode finale

Political assassination by a non state agent IS terrorism, no way around that.
Not that when it's carried out by the state it's ok, just to be clear, but it would be called differently depending by the regime.
I'd say in The Gifted reality they'd call it "neutralizing a threat", they don't seem big on human rights, for either humans or mutants.

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Old 01-17-2018, 01:44 AM   #32
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Default Re: eXtraction | X-roads | The Gifted's two episode finale

Loved it. Well earned conclusion. I was hoping/predicting Andy would join a bootleg version of the brotherhood.

The show really needed moral dissent among the members. I think the division makes sense, and I look forward to seeing how this grows in season 2.

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Old 01-17-2018, 03:43 AM   #33
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Default Re: eXtraction | X-roads | The Gifted's two episode finale

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^Honestly her "change of look" was one of the very few things that I didn't really like here. I kind of rolled by eyes a bit when I saw that.
I suspect that Lorna's way of dealing with all the emotions involved with killing those people and splitting off from Marcos and her friends is to embrace her new lifestyle to a contrived extent and shut the rest out. So she goes full supervillain.

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I'm with Sithborg; Campbell feels lie he could still be alive. He gives off some vaguely Sinister vibes, and the background they just gave him feels less like a "why he is dedicated to killing mutants" motivation and more of a "why he is dedicated to exploiting mutants" one. His brother suffering from cystic fibrosis does not connect to wishing to kill mutants, and even his explanation to the Senator about wanting to help people with genetic mutations feels like it doesn't jive with a "KILL ALL MUTANTS!" vibe.
It's hard to be sure, but my best interpretation was that he resented the mutants because they benefited (in theory) from their genes while his brother suffered. One thing I'm confident about, though, is that he's not doing it out of a belief that mutants are evil or emotionally removed from humanity. When he held the kids at gunpoint, not only did it show what he was capable of, but it showed that he counted on these mutants he didn't personally know to have strong enough morals to let him get away, even though it was the kids of their enemies. So he knows mutants are people like anyone else (and typically better people than he himself is).

But yeah, he could still be alive somehow. When he survived Reed's dad, maybe the blast had been enough to kill someone else.

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Old 01-17-2018, 03:05 PM   #34
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Default Re: eXtraction | X-roads | The Gifted's two episode finale

Dang, I was impressed with the finale. There were a lot of powerful thrills, emotions, and dramas all throughout. The characters had some great arcs and scenes. I'm excited to see what they have in store for Season 2!

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Old 01-18-2018, 02:15 AM   #35
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Default Re: eXtraction | X-roads | The Gifted's two episode finale

So, what did I just watch?

The Chekhov handhold went off in this episode, and the net result was... Nothing.

By that I mean, the impact on the narrative was exactly that, Nothing. It would have worked out exactly the same if they'd just managed to escape through that tunnel. All the others were like "ooh aah" over it, but in the end Lauren and Andy only wasted four brainwashed mutie thugs. Not a single human was killed or apparently even seriously injured during their assault on the HQ.

This really is a shame. When you spend a whole season building up to something you'd expect it to have an impact when it happens other than some FX. Lauren didn't change. Andy didn't change. Seeing that the guy who plays Turner has apparently left the show, it would certainly have made more sense to have him go out in a blaze of fire at the hands of the von Strucker kids than that weak sauce write-out we were subjected to at the end. Plus he's an hypocritical little prick who needs to pay for his war crimes.

Lorna tearing up that plane, that was good. If they'd managed to talk her out of it I'd thrown something at the television. Andy coming with the Brotherhood, also good. Overall the split was good.

The problem is that the Hellfire Club is right and the "Mutant Underground" is coming across as a bunch of ineffective, sanctimonious morons. They're trying to play hippies in the midst of a civil war, apparently oblivious to the fact that the kids on the other side are murdering them left and right. They aren't being hunted by average Joes here, these are soldiers who get paid to kill them. "There are innocents on that plane!"?! Not too bloody likely. "Terrorists" are what the big army always calls the little army.

Rather than spending the next season with Lauren convincing Andy to come back, it would be much more fun and unpredictable if he'd be the one convincing her to join him.

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Old 01-18-2018, 10:53 PM   #36
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Default Re: eXtraction | X-roads | The Gifted's two episode finale

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The problem is that the Hellfire Club is right and the "Mutant Underground" is coming across as a bunch of ineffective, sanctimonious morons. They're trying to play hippies in the midst of a civil war, apparently oblivious to the fact that the kids on the other side are murdering them left and right. They aren't being hunted by average Joes here, these are soldiers who get paid to kill them. "There are innocents on that plane!"?! Not too bloody likely. "Terrorists" are what the big army always calls the little army.
They're not at all in a civil war though, the mutants are a small heavily prosecuted minority, with a few of them well connected.
The situation in The Gifted is not that far removed from the condition of Jews in pre-WWII Nazi Germany: I'd say that if somehow the Jews had turned to armed insurrection it would have made things worse sooner.
They would have been mostly in the right but still the end result would have been their blood on the street, especially the blood of those member of the minority who did not take up the fight but would be the first in the crossfire.

That's the greatness of the X-Men comics, they present a conflict with no easy answer or solution but they sure as hell are not hippies.
Xavier and Cyclops (for most of their publishing history) are politically totally in line with Malcom X.
Since when caring to not cause collateral victims is a flaw in a hero?
I get it's a matter of preferences but I'll take my fictional heroes striving to be better than their fictional oppressors.

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Old 01-21-2018, 01:16 PM   #37
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Default Re: eXtraction | X-roads | The Gifted's two episode finale

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And at the very least, I don't think the Hounds are done. The lab is still out there, the weapons system of combining blood and powers is proven, and if anything, it's likely the death of the Senator will simply invigorate the Purifyer's' political power and get the program fast tracked. Which of course is kind of the ultimate philosophical point about the Magneto vs Xavier debate: the violence-as-the-favored-resort philosophy often seeks tactical instead of strategic objectives, which require diplomacy and integration with the rest of society. That's not to say that violence is not a valid response to persecution; more that the scale of violence that the most powerful mutants can bring to bear has sociological consequences which they're often unwilling to consider
My thoughts exactly. The data on the Hounds programm are still there - the already running programm can be run by someone else (while I believe that Campbell survived - he is not mentioned dying and the plane was not torn apart. It lost engines and with a lot of luck he could have survived. I really miss single "hero" being cynical - who could have comment to Andy: without your sister you are just average mutant. Is it really the path you want to go?

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Old 01-22-2018, 10:25 AM   #38
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Default Re: eXtraction | X-roads | The Gifted's two episode finale

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My thoughts exactly. The data on the Hounds programm are still there - the already running programm can be run by someone else (while I believe that Campbell survived - he is not mentioned dying and the plane was not torn apart. It lost engines and with a lot of luck he could have survived. I really miss single "hero" being cynical - who could have comment to Andy: without your sister you are just average mutant. Is it really the path you want to go?
That would sound more realistic if the Underground had a real political arm like the Civil Rights movement of the 60s to alter the course of legislation and stop the nationalization of the Hound program aka genocide bill. Though the season it came off they had no real political arm of any means and were one step above Morlocks.

Matt Nix the show runner said the Hound program at least for now has been put massively on the back foot, but anti-mutant sentiment will also grow.

The problem is if it’s already bad enough you can get though a genocide bill you have a problem.

In a way the government is going to have to fear Hellfire if they are going to consider grabbing Eclipse’s hand.

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