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Old 02-15-2016, 10:20 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Official X-Men 1 (2000) Appreciation Thread

Random question, but does anybody prefer X-Men over X2? If not, are there some aspects about it you liked more than X2?

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Old 05-04-2016, 12:45 PM   #27
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I'm rewatching the first X-Men movie right now (after having started with First Class and Origins: Wolverine), and there are more things presented in it that were retconned by those films (and other materials) than I'd realized/remembered there being.

It's not a deal-breaker, but it does make for interesting viewing if you're watching the franchise chronologically because you have a lot of 'new' information to keep track of in place of some of the information that's presented.

BTW, here's a list of the retcons I've noticed:
1) Charles' age when he meets Erik (mentioned here as being 17, retconned by FC as being 28)

2) Charles being unaware of why he can't read Erik's mind (retconned by FC establishing that he does in fact know why he can't read Erik's mind)

3) Charles mentioning that it's been nearly 15 years since Wolverine lost his memories (retconned by O:W and dating from the official X-verse timeline as actually having been 20 years exactly)

I know there was at least one more that I noticed, but I'm having a bit of a 'brain fart' right now and can't remember what it was.

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Old 05-05-2016, 01:07 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by DigificWriter View Post
I'm rewatching the first X-Men movie right now (after having started with First Class and Origins: Wolverine), and there are more things presented in it that were retconned by those films (and other materials) than I'd realized/remembered there being.

It's not a deal-breaker, but it does make for interesting viewing if you're watching the franchise chronologically because you have a lot of 'new' information to keep track of in place of some of the information that's presented.

BTW, here's a list of the retcons I've noticed:
1) Charles' age when he meets Erik (mentioned here as being 17, retconned by FC as being 28)

2) Charles being unaware of why he can't read Erik's mind (retconned by FC establishing that he does in fact know why he can't read Erik's mind)

3) Charles mentioning that it's been nearly 15 years since Wolverine lost his memories (retconned by O:W and dating from the official X-verse timeline as actually having been 20 years exactly)

I know there was at least one more that I noticed, but I'm having a bit of a 'brain fart' right now and can't remember what it was.
Number 3 makes the most sense considering that the X3 flashback scene occured around the same time as the events of Origins: Wolverine. As for Charles being unaware of why he can't read Erik's mind, I chalk it up as him forgetting that Erik had kept Sebastian Shaw's helmet all these years. Lastly, when Charles said that he met Erik when he was 17, it was supposed to happen around the same time that Erik first saw the statue of liberty in 1949.

Here's another thing that was retconned. Both X1 and X2 have established that Magneto helped Charles build cerebro but First Class contradicted that by having Beast be the one that built cerebro. Then, Days of Future Past further extended that contradiction when it put Magneto in prison for the JFK assassination leaving Beast to build a new cerebro along with the entire sub-basement that we have seen in the original trilogy. Then there's the whole "Cyclops, Storm, and Jean Grey being Xavier's first students" part but they're not in First Class and there was no indication whatsoever in X1 that Mystique and Xavier ever had a sibling relationship but they did in First Class.

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Old 05-05-2016, 06:25 AM   #29
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Random question, but does anybody prefer X-Men over X2? If not, are there some aspects about it you liked more than X2?
I prefer it over X2.

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Old 05-05-2016, 12:36 PM   #30
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Here's another thing that was retconned. Both X1 and X2 have established that Magneto helped Charles build cerebro but First Class contradicted that by having Beast be the one that built cerebro. Then, Days of Future Past further extended that contradiction when it put Magneto in prison for the JFK assassination leaving Beast to build a new cerebro along with the entire sub-basement that we have seen in the original trilogy. Then there's the whole "Cyclops, Storm, and Jean Grey being Xavier's first students" part but they're not in First Class and there was no indication whatsoever in X1 that Mystique and Xavier ever had a sibling relationship but they did in First Class.
None of this stuff fits the definition of a retcon.

However, since you brought these things up, I'll go ahead and address them:
1) Charles and Raven never personally interact with one another during the events of the first trilogy, so there's no reason for their sibling relationship to have been brought up. Additionally, the 1973 events as we see them unfold in DoFP didn't originally occur, so Raven spent decades in the custody of William Stryker, making her extremely bitter, disillusioned, and detached by the time we seen her in X1

2) We don't know WHEN the second Cerebro was built in the original timeline, or who actually built it, because the first time we see it used is in X1, so there's no actual contradiction here

3) Charles says that Scott, Jean, and Ororo were "some of my first students", which they were given that he didn't actually officially open the school until the early to mid 80s in the original timeline due to the despondency that overtook him following Kennedy's assassination in 1963

We don't know exactly what broke Charles out of said despondency in the original timeline or exactly when it happened, but it had to have been before 1985 since that's the first time, chronologically, that we see him post-First Class (since the bulk of Origins: Wolverine -save for the 1845 prologue, the "wars montage", and the post-Vietnam "Team X" prologue - are set in that year).


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Old 05-05-2016, 11:47 PM   #31
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None of this stuff fits the definition of a retcon.

However, since you brought these things up, I'll go ahead and address them:
1) Charles and Raven never personally interact with one another during the events of the first trilogy, so there's no reason for their sibling relationship to have been brought up. Additionally, the 1973 events as we see them unfold in DoFP didn't originally occur, so Raven spent decades in the custody of William Stryker, making her extremely bitter, disillusioned, and detached by the time we seen her in X1
Charles had a falling out with Erik as well at the end of First Class but they still talked to each other throughout the original trilogy. It makes no sense that Charles would still interact with Erik but ignore Mystique as if he never even met her. She's supposed to be like "a sister to him" but just like Erik, Charles brushes her off and leaves her for dead.

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2) We don't know WHEN the second Cerebro was built in the original timeline, or who actually built it, because the first time we see it used is in X1, so there's no actual contradiction here.
There is when it clashes with William Stryker getting his information from Magneto on how to build his own cerebro. The entire plot of X2 is ruined if someone else had build cerebro for Charles instead of Magneto because Stryker would have no way of knowing how to build his own cerebro without Magneto;s knowledge.

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3) Charles says that Scott, Jean, and Ororo were "some of my first students", which they were given that he didn't actually officially open the school until the early to mid 80s in the original timeline due to the despondency that overtook him following Kennedy's assassination in 1963
From what I've seen in Days of Future Past, it looked like Charles had opened the school much earlier than that. He most likely did so within the 10 year gap between First Class and DOFP so he kept the school open for a couple of years until he went on his downward spiral, hence why the school was shut down as soon as Wolverine arrived in 1973. We don't know how long Charles kept the school running but Cyclops, Jean, Storm were each born in the late 60's so I doubt that Charles's quote about them being some of his first students is valid.

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Old 05-06-2016, 12:51 AM   #32
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Charles had a falling out with Erik as well at the end of First Class but they still talked to each other throughout the original trilogy. It makes no sense that Charles would still interact with Erik but ignore Mystique as if he never even met her. She's supposed to be like "a sister to him" but just like Erik, Charles brushes her off and leaves her for dead.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so, again, there's no contradiction here. Just because Charles and Raven's familial connection isn't touched on in the original trilogy doesn't mean that it doesn't still exist narratively.

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There is when it clashes with William Stryker getting his information from Magneto on how to build his own cerebro. The entire plot of X2 is ruined if someone else had build cerebro for Charles instead of Magneto because Stryker would have no way of knowing how to build his own cerebro without Magneto;s knowledge.
Like I said, we don't know when the second Cerebro was built or who built it. You're creating a continuity issue where none actually exists.

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From what I've seen in Days of Future Past, it looked like Charles had opened the school much earlier than that. He most likely did so within the 10 year gap between First Class and DOFP so he kept the school open for a couple of years until he went on his downward spiral, hence why the school was shut down as soon as Wolverine arrived in 1973. We don't know how long Charles kept the school running but Cyclops, Jean, Storm were each born in the late 60's so I doubt that Charles's quote about them being some of his first students is valid.
Kennedy's assassination happens just over a year after First Class, which ends with Xavier not yet having embarked on the journey of actually opening the school, and DoFP establishes that it is the assassination that causes Charles' despondency. When Wolverine goes back in time to change things, he's specifically tasked with first breaking said despondency by Future!Charles, so your assessment of things as they were in the original timeline relative to what we see in DoFP is wrong.

As far as character ages for Jean, Scott, and Ororo go, they were born in the 70s, not the 60s.

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Old 05-10-2016, 09:41 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Official X-Men 1 (2000) Appreciation Thread

This is still a great film, and one I'd take over most of the MCU films.

It's retroactively refreshing to watch this film because it's not an origin story and it doesn't go into detail or get bogged down in too much exposition. Oh, Magneto just has a secret base in a mountain and a machine that turns people into mutants? Ok, go with it. No need to explain.

It's rather small and intimate but is still pretty exciting in it's spectacle. Obviously a lot of the CGI hasn't aged well, but it's forgivable.

It also has a great, unique score. The first wave of superhero films in the 2000s had a habit of having good scores. All three X-Films, All three Spidey's, Hulk...all good scores. If there is one nitpick I have with most newer superhero films it would be their scores aren't memorable in the slightest. DC is the only one stepping up their score game.

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Old 05-13-2016, 12:33 AM   #34
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so, again, there's no contradiction here. Just because Charles and Raven's familial connection isn't touched on in the original trilogy doesn't mean that it doesn't still exist narratively.
It doesn't mean that it does either. That's like saying that Boba Fett escaped from the sarlacc pit even though Return of the Jedi never showed him getting out of the pit. Hell, everyone keeps saying that Wolverine and Sabertooth didn't know each other in X1 but they forget that the movie pointed out that Wolverine has amnesia and Sabertooth's taking of Wolverine's dog tags should indicate that he has some memory of Wolverine.


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Like I said, we don't know when the second Cerebro was built or who built it. You're creating a continuity issue where none actually exists.
Bryan Singer created the continuity issues, not me. If Magneto didn't build cerebro for Charles, then it contradicts with Charles's backstory in X1 and William Stryker's plot in X2.


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Originally Posted by DigificWriter
Kennedy's assassination happens just over a year after First Class, which ends with Xavier not yet having embarked on the journey of actually opening the school, and DoFP establishes that it is the assassination that causes Charles' despondency. When Wolverine goes back in time to change things, he's specifically tasked with first breaking said despondency by Future!Charles, so your assessment of things as they were in the original timeline relative to what we see in DoFP is wrong.

As far as character ages for Jean, Scott, and Ororo go, they were born in the 70s, not the 60s.
According to an X-men viral site, Charles opened the school for the gifted youngsters in 1965 so he hasn't fully sunked into his despondency until somewhere between 1969 to '70. Also, if Jean, Scott, and Ororo were born in the 70's, they would each be 10 years old in the 80's but they look older than that in the Apocalypse trailers.

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Old 05-13-2016, 11:25 AM   #35
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Default Re: The Official X-Men 1 (2000) Appreciation Thread

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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so, again, there's no contradiction here. Just because Charles and Raven's familial connection isn't touched on in the original trilogy doesn't mean that it doesn't still exist narratively.
Agreed on this. They don't interact and are logically estranged enough by that point for it not to stand out too much. I think DOFP did a great job with that.


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Like I said, we don't know when the second Cerebro was built or who built it. You're creating a continuity issue where none actually exists.
I don't think this is created out of thin air at all. Beast built the original Cerebro, and Magneto was out of the picture when the second one was constructed. Plot hole.

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Kennedy's assassination happens just over a year after First Class, which ends with Xavier not yet having embarked on the journey of actually opening the school, and DoFP establishes that it is the assassination that causes Charles' despondency. When Wolverine goes back in time to change things, he's specifically tasked with first breaking said despondency by Future!Charles, so your assessment of things as they were in the original timeline relative to what we see in DoFP is wrong.
Incorrect. Beast clearly states in DOFP that him and Xavier had the school up and running until Vietnam saw several students and teachers conscripted. It was then that Xavier took a downward spiral.

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As far as character ages for Jean, Scott, and Ororo go, they were born in the 70s, not the 60s.
They are not 13 or younger in Apocalypse.

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Old 05-30-2016, 01:07 PM   #36
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Random question, but does anybody prefer X-Men over X2? If not, are there some aspects about it you liked more than X2?
X1 is better than X2 for me

because Cyclops's role is useless in X2



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Here's another thing that was retconned. Both X1 and X2 have established that Magneto helped Charles build cerebro but First Class contradicted that by having Beast be the one that built cerebro. Then, Days of Future Past further extended that contradiction when it put Magneto in prison for the JFK assassination leaving Beast to build a new cerebro along with the entire sub-basement that we have seen in the original trilogy. Then there's the whole "Cyclops, Storm, and Jean Grey being Xavier's first students" part but they're not in First Class and there was no indication whatsoever in X1 that Mystique and Xavier ever had a sibling relationship but they did in First Class.
Maybe in 80's, when Jean and Scott were still young and Erik was free (X3 intro), he helped Xavier for many things

Jean Cyclops and Storm was among the first students alongside Beast who was senior. We can suppose they were Xavier's first students in old timeline after his depression in 70's when he opened his school once again to create the x-men.

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Old 06-07-2016, 08:24 AM   #37
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Default Re: The Official X-Men 1 (2000) Appreciation Thread

I watched X-Men last night, and it's still my personal favorite...along with The Last Stand and now Apocalypse.

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Old 10-18-2016, 08:30 AM   #38
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Random question, but does anybody prefer X-Men over X2? If not, are there some aspects about it you liked more than X2?
I prefer X1

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Number 3 makes the most sense considering that the X3 flashback scene occured around the same time as the events of Origins: Wolverine. As for Charles being unaware of why he can't read Erik's mind, I chalk it up as him forgetting that Erik had kept Sebastian Shaw's helmet all these years. Lastly, when Charles said that he met Erik when he was 17, it was supposed to happen around the same time that Erik first saw the statue of liberty in 1949.

Here's another thing that was retconned. Both X1 and X2 have established that Magneto helped Charles build cerebro but First Class contradicted that by having Beast be the one that built cerebro. Then, Days of Future Past further extended that contradiction when it put Magneto in prison for the JFK assassination leaving Beast to build a new cerebro along with the entire sub-basement that we have seen in the original trilogy. Then there's the whole "Cyclops, Storm, and Jean Grey being Xavier's first students" part but they're not in First Class and there was no indication whatsoever in X1 that Mystique and Xavier ever had a sibling relationship but they did in First Class.
Retconned things in original trilogy :
Xavier meeting Erik at 17
"20 years ago" and "10 years ago" X3 intro
Wolverine's adamantium operation taking place 15 years before X1


About Magneto helping building cerebro, we know Magneto is free in early 80's (they visited Jean as child). We ignore how he escaped from prison in original tilmeline but we can suppose he helped Xavier and Hank to build cerebro in 80's.

About first students, we know all pupils in middle 60's left the school during Vietnam conflict. Only Hank stayed at Xavier's side. In basic timeline Xavier overcame his depression himself, we can suppose he decided to create x-men in 80's to protect the world by recruiting x-men members first (Jean, Scott, Ororo) and later natural students.
New timeline s***cks, after his depression he recruited simple students at first, forgetting x-men project.

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Old 07-14-2017, 11:05 AM   #39
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Default Re: The Official X-Men 1 (2000) Appreciation Thread

today is 17th annivsary of release of first x-men film.even though now the pre x-men first class film+the wolverine really don't matter it's important to notice it.

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Old 06-02-2018, 09:32 PM   #40
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Just watched it again right now and noticed a plot hole I never picked up on. When Cerebro is introduced Wolverine asks Xavier why he doesnt use it to track Magneto. Xavier says he's tried but Magneto has found a way to block him, and we later learn its bc of his helmet. If thats the case, why didnt he try to track Sabretooth instead, knowing that he is working under Magneto?

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Old 06-11-2018, 09:04 AM   #41
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Presumably Sabretooth spent most of his time on Magneto's island base which was shielded by enough of the same material that made up his helmet. Xavier probably was still tracking Sabretooth but maybe not enough of the time.

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Old 06-11-2018, 09:27 AM   #42
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Presumably Sabretooth spent most of his time on Magneto's island base which was shielded by enough of the same material that made up his helmet. Xavier probably was still tracking Sabretooth but maybe not enough of the time.
but we never saw Xavier try or even mention that. Sabretooth wasnt always at the base (heck the first time we were introduced to him, was outside it). This was a glaring plothole to me

And yikes, the action was a bit cringeworthy. This and X2. The special effects n Cyclops beams seem so bad and the fight scenes have obvious wire work. Its hard to go back to these films with the lens of how the comic book genre has evolved so much in nearly 20 years

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Old 07-11-2018, 08:38 PM   #43
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but we never saw Xavier try or even mention that. Sabretooth wasnt always at the base (heck the first time we were introduced to him, was outside it).
And then Xavier was able to find him and send people after him although then he didn't seem to be continuing to look for him.

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And yikes, the action was a bit cringeworthy.
Some weak moments but I thought others felt/still feel more intense from being shorter and less massive-scale than more recent comic book films.

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