Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

[TheDevilIsMe]

In all honesty, going around the internets lately - I see alot of 'hate' and disdain for 'The Dark Knight Rises'. In forums, user comments on news articles and YouTube, IMDB, etc.

Even in today's article on 'SHH' about the new 'Iron Man III' poster, the top rated comment was about how "terrible" 'The Dark Knight Rises' is and a few others that echoed that sentiment were also the second and third most top rated.

I've noticed this internet-crapping on the film since maybe...October-ish? But I never said much about it. But now I feel like getting a discussion about it going.

I know many, many films get internet hate or a slamming in forums that actually did amazingly well or very good with critics/audiences and are quite loved - is this the case with 'The Dark Knight Rises'?

I've even seen it on 'Worst or Most Disappointing Sequels' lists or 'Worst of 2012', too. Not to mention I've seen many claim that "The film failed, nobody liked it and it ruined the trilogy" or "It wasn't very well received at all...critics only gave it high marks to avoid death threats."

Am I the only one baffled at how a well received film can attain this reputation on the internet amongst fans and forum users? Are they trying to buck the consensus against the film and brand it as a 'hated'/'terrible' sequel?

I've seen many films get this online stigma despite getting good/great reviews from critics and most people - in the end it doesn't matter because the internet forum-users are equal to such a small, minuscule voice that what they say is the ramblings of a vocal minority that 99.9% of the population doesn't hear or value - but still.

What gives? Is this a vocal minority internet bandwagon-hate or is this 'The Dark Knight Rises's reputation now?

[Thundercrack85]

I wouldn't say it's terrible, not even outright bad. But it is inferior to the Dark Knight. And that shouldn't be too surprising, since they didn't get to make the movie they wanted to make (with Heath Ledger's passing).

I also see it as something of a backlash against the rather... passionate fanbase.

[TheDevilIsMe]

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85

I also see it as something of a backlash against the rather... passionate fanbase.

I would say that I never saw such a backlash against 'The Dark Knight', though. The backlash for 'Rises' is much stronger - and the fanboys were even more rabid after the second film so the backlash should've occurred years ago, as well.

Plenty films get internet hate - I wouldn't say that 'Rises' is any different. I don't think the big reason for the backlash is the fanbase.

Boy, you were quick replying.

[henzINNIT]

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85

I wouldn't say it's terrible, not even outright bad. But it is inferior to the Dark Knight. And that shouldn't be too surprising, since they didn't get to make the movie they wanted to make (with Heath Ledger's passing).

I also see it as something of a backlash against the rather... passionate fanbase.

[/endthread]

Nailed it, and in the first response.

[Katzenbach]

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85

I wouldn't say it's terrible, not even outright bad. But it is inferior to the Dark Knight. And that shouldn't be too surprising, since they didn't get to make the movie they wanted to make (with Heath Ledger's passing).

I also see it as something of a backlash against the rather... passionate fanbase.

I agree. I'm not sure people are trashing TDKR but it was the inferior of all three. If I were to rank TDK series, it would be as follows:
1) The Dark Knight
2) Batman Begins
3) The Dark Knight Rises

[CoolCadaver49]

The forums move fast here. Honestly, I think all the fans got themselves hyped up and that hype allowed them to watch the movie in theaters with rose tinted glasses. Now, the movie is older and some of the new shine has rubbed off, and people start seeing flaws. I think that's part of it, but definitely not all of it.

I think Thundercrack has point in that it really comes down to the fact that The Dark Knight is widely considered better. A dip in quality, no matter how slight, will likely leave a bad taste in fan's mouths.

Plus, have you seen this place? Everyone (over)analyzes every detail of the movie. Any movie is going to look worse under a critical microscope that is applied ruthlessly over and over again.

[JackWhite]

I always figured that TDKR would be a polarizing film. No matter how you feel about the film, being good, bad, or a disappointment - it was always going to have it's fair share of detractors; after what was pretty much a solid unanimous appreciation for TDK when it came out.

I do think a lot of the hate is pretty petty, because the movie has a lot of material which is damn well stunning and extremely well executed.

[CoolCadaver49]

Originally Posted by JackWhite

I always figured that TDKR would be a polarizing film. No matter how you feel about the film, being good, bad, or a disappointment - it was always going to have it's fair share of detractors; after what was pretty much a solid unanimous appreciation for TDK when it came out.

Sure, I agree.

I do think a lot of the hate is pretty petty, because the movie has a lot of material which is damn well stunning and extremely well executed.

So you're saying that the fan hate (because, really, I think only Bat fans actually hate TDKR; the GA liked it) is because the movie has a lot of stunning and well executed material?

Or are you saying it was packed with too much content? Because I can agree with the latter wholeheartedly.

[JackWhite]

Originally Posted by CoolCadaver49

Sure, I agree.



So you're saying that the fan hate (because, really, I think only Bat fans actually hate TDKR; the GA liked it) is because the movie has a lot of stunning and well executed material?

Or are you saying it was packed with too much content? Because I can agree with the latter wholeheartedly.

Well for one, yes, I do think there was too much going on in TDKR and obviously some things were skimmed over because of the IMAX time limitations. But what I meant was, for all the rapid haters; it seems like they can't even give props to the stuff that works in TDKR. I have my own issues with the film, but to say that it's 100% a failure is kind of absurd.

[Dr.]

My theory…

Some fans had a serious, philosophical objection to Nolan fashioning a “Batman ends” - a definitive, no-turning-back conclusion to the Bruce Wayne arc. As such, other parts of the movie (that, under different circumstances, might have been allowed as artistic license or forgiven as minor flaws) were exaggerated into egregious missteps.

[TheDevilIsMe]

Originally Posted by JackWhite

I have my own issues with the film, but to say that it's 100% a failure is kind of absurd.

Precisely. I have many issues with the film myself - but for some to claim that it was panned or is considered a terrible film is absurd - or to call it a failure is a bit in the realm of hyperbole.

'The Hobbit' has been getting raked over the coals lately, as well I've noticed.

[CoolCadaver49]

Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe

Precisely. I have many issues with the film myself - but for some to claim that it was panned or is considered a terrible film is absurd - or to call it a failure is a bit in the realm of hyperbole.

'The Hobbit' has been getting raked over the coals lately, as well I've noticed.

Yeah, but that movie deserves it.

[CoolCadaver49]

Originally Posted by JackWhite

Well for one, yes, I do think there was too much going on in TDKR and obviously some things were skimmed over because of the IMAX time limitations. But what I meant was, for all the rapid haters; it seems like they can't even give props to the stuff that works in TDKR. I have my own issues with the film, but to say that it's 100% a failure is kind of absurd.

I agree, and I've said as much in this thread. However, everyone has different opinions on what "works" in the film, and how much, so it's kind of hard to discount "haters" that don't give props to things that you might think the movie did well.

[TheDevilIsMe]

Originally Posted by CoolCadaver49

I agree, and I've said as much in this thread. However, everyone has different opinions on what "works" in the film, and how much, so it's kind of hard to discount "haters" that don't give props to things that you might think the movie did well.

It's also wrong to label someone a 'hater' when the topic is usually film criticism. 9 times out of 10 - anyone will write something that's wrong. That's what the discussions are about.

There's a difference between criticism and vitriol, though. And that's what I was talking about in general - there's vitriol in the place of good criticism. There's far more posters online tearing the film to bits in a gleeful manner - and when they do so in that manner is when they get labelled a 'hater'.

[Anno_Domini]

Someone's opening a can of worms right now...

*sits back and watches the fireworks*

I will say this though...I find The Dark Knight Rises to be the best of the trilogy myself. And I also find it so odd that people detail out TDKR's plot holes while overlooking TDK's, lol. It's childish fanboyism to the extreme if you ask me because of such critical acclaim that film gets. It's pretty fickle and petty.

[TheDevilIsMe]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Someone's opening a can of worms right now..

I don't think I did - if I did I do apologize. But I know SHH posters can usually be civil/level headed.

I think someone here said it - fans can be fickle. Some are about 'TDKR'.

[Schrute]

I don't think it makes you an internet whiner to not like the film. I can only speak on my behalf, but after viewing the film a couple of times I just kept disliking it more and more. It's not a bad movie, I just prefer TDK and BB over TDKR.

And also to be honest, there are people who will try and criticize every aspect of the film while there will also be people who will try and praise every aspect of the film. Both will go to different levels to prove their point, and obviously they are going to collide.

I think the two extremes are people who don't like the film and find it fun to crap on everything about it to piss people off, and those who love the film and feel it is their duty almost to provide a rebuttal to anyone who has a minor complaint with the film.

[CoolCadaver49]

Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe

I don't think I did - if I did I do apologize.

You did, but it's nothing new, really.

But I know SHH posters can usually be civil/level headed.

[BatLobsterRises]

I find it pretty discouraging to be honest. Some fans were legitimately disappointed for certain reasons, and that I can understand.

But the whole thing about plot holes and trying to find a logical flaw in every single aspect of the movie is a bunch of nonsense that defeats the purpose of sitting down, watching a movie and allowing it to take you on a journey. If I was as critical on every movie as the TDKR's critics are on it, I'd probably be unable to enjoy most movies. A lot of internet movie fans tend to overreact if there are "holes" in something because they want to assert their intellect, and seem to have problems liking something if they feel it somehow insulted their intelligence. Hence you have a lot of people saying things like..."I enjoyed it while was I was watching it, but when you think about it later it all falls apart." Which in most cases I've found that they simply were not watching the same movie as the people who loved it were. There are some fundamental differences in interpretation between those who loved the movie and those who didn't...that much I have observed in the past 8 months debating this film on here. And there are so many pivot points in the film, where if one particular element doesn't work for you, it has a ripple effect on the whole film. Whereas conversely, if you loved the same element, it only enhances the rest of the film. Hence the polarized reaction. That's not to say there's no middle ground, there is. But when you have such extreme polarized reactions, you know you're probably dealing with a piece of art.

Just my .02. When I walked out of the theater, before I even looked at a single comment online I knew it would have its detractors. Catwoman killing Bane alone was enough to expect all the "Bane went out like a b****!" comments. But I also felt very strongly that it was an extremely worthy conclusion to this trilogy, one that I believed would stand the test of time. And as a result of that, I think time will be kind to TDKR the same way it was kind to Return of the Jedi. People in my generation (90s kids) grew up loving Return of the Jedi as much as the other movies. There was no need to choose between movies or pick a favorite, because they were all telling one grand story and ROTJ was the thrilling conclusion.

Similarly, I imagine today's soon to be pre-teens and teens discovering the Dark Knight trilogy and being blown away by ALL of it. They won't have that added pressure of anticipation between films. They won't have four agonizing years wondering how they're going to follow up Heath Ledger's performance. They'll just have three great Batman movies waiting for them that tell a very coherent and powerful story. What we all experienced over the course of 7 years, they can over the course of 8 hours. Granted, they may also not love it as much as we did because they didn't get to experience the hype. But what I'm saying is that these are great movies that have what it takes to survive beyond the hype. Rises most surely included, for both the positive and negative hype.

[TheDevilIsMe]

It's a provable fact that audiences loved the film as did critics and the majority of fans.

Months have gone by - the only ones left to talk in the comments sections are the ones with nothing but negative things to say who want to attack the film. Nobody stays online to praise a film months after the film's been out.

I've seen many saying it's a polarizing film - but I really don't think it is - not even close. With about 10 people in a forum? Sure. The general public? Batman fans? Critics? Not even close.

Internet naysayers =/= polarizing/hated/terrible.

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

often buzz grows in black and white terms. The simple positive vs negative (as good as TDK vs not as good as TDK) is what is sieved out of comments and conversations, and is what spreads, over time resulting in (amazing vs awful, most dissapointing, etc)

Ever played telephone?

This is present in two ways here.

Buzz, developing (and simplifying) over time is what caused TDK to be elevated to what it is in people's minds. Some sort of holy grail of movies.

At the same time, TDKR, not living up to that ^^^, caused it to start with the immediate reaction of 'being worse'. That comparison creates a negative feeling, even though the movie was great. Or at least, that negativity is what spreads, is what's sieved out of comments and buzz on the internet, and is exponentially decreasing it's buzz.

This was the same case (though much more warranted) with Spiderman 3 and Xmen 3, and especially Iron Man 2.
When those movies came out, they were known as being disappointing, but still good. C+ movies.

Now, people talk about those movies as if they're F level movies.

[TheDevilIsMe]

Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog

This was the same case (though much more warranted) with Spiderman 3 and Xmen 3, and especially Iron Man 2.
When those movies came out, they were known as being disappointing, but still good. C+ movies.

Now, people talk about those movies as if they're F level movies.

Exactly - and I know a few other films with that sort of reputation at times as well. But I think forum-users and those that talk about those movies as if they're F level movies have such an ego to think that the general population/fandom/critics share their views but they often do not - they more often than not are on opposite sides. It's a case of silent majority and vocal minority.

Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog

...is what caused TDK to be elevated to what it is in people's minds. Some sort of holy grail of movies.

This is what I find crazy. I love the series but the 'TDK'-worship is over-blown to the max...

[Micromind]

Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe

Even in today's article on 'SHH' about the new 'Iron Man III' poster, the top rated comment was about how "terrible" 'The Dark Knight Rises' is and a few others that echoed that sentiment were also the second and third most top rated.

Meh, Comments from hard core Marvel fans and Batman purists.

Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe

I've even seen it on 'Worst or Most Disappointing Sequels' lists or 'Worst of 2012', too. Not to mention I've seen many claim that "The film failed, nobody liked it and it ruined the trilogy"

Subjective Opinions.

Originally Posted by TheDevilIsMe

or "It wasn't very well received at all...critics only gave it high marks to avoid death threats."

The movie is in the AFI's top ten movies of 2012 list, that cannot be due to threats.

Am I the only one baffled at how a well received film can attain this reputation on the internet amongst fans and forum users? Are they trying to buck the consensus against the film and brand it as a 'hated'/'terrible' sequel?

Who cares what they think, it was a success commercially and critically.

[Uroboric Forms]

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

Subjective Opinions.

Well, certainly the part about how 'nobody liked it' is objectively wrong at least, and I would argue against the film failing considering what it set out for.

[titansupes]

TDKR is well loved among critics and general movie goers alike, it's unquestionable. It's a very vocal minority that do all the hating.