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View Poll Results: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?
Yes 2 10.53%
No 17 89.47%
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Old 04-23-2017, 05:57 AM   #1
herolee10
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Default Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

I've been meaning to make a thread on this topic for awhile now, but I wanted to get everyone else's thoughts about this as well.

Overall, do you guys think that this show inadvertently makes the Avengers look bad/incompetent in the grand scheme of the MCU?

I mean after the events of "Winter Soldier", we saw the fallout of Cap's actions when it came to taking down SHIELD and how it affected the lives of every innocent SHIELD agent.

And as we all know, the Avengers reunited sometime between the events of "Winter Soldier" and "Age of Ultron" (which would mean somewhere between Season 1 and 2).

However, despite all of the worldwide threats that Coulson's SHIELD has come across and faced since then, the only threats that the Avengers tackled were Hydra bases (that may have had Loki's scepter) and Crossbones.

So either the Avengers don't care about anything other than Hydra when it relates to something otherworldly or they're very incompetent when it comes to finding/locating other threats to the world.

And another big issue is how every villain, who have had plans to either destroy or take over the world on this show, never worry about the Avengers as potential threats to their plans....and Coulson's SHIELD are treated as though they're humanity's last line of defense against those threats.

Look at how their efforts and existence are completely dismissed in Aida's Framework...a reality that's supposed to exist where everyone's biggest regrets no longer exist.

Any thoughts on this?

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Old 04-25-2017, 09:01 AM   #2
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

Quote:
Originally Posted by herolee10 View Post
I've been meaning to make a thread on this topic for awhile now, but I wanted to get everyone else's thoughts about this as well.

Overall, do you guys think that this show inadvertently makes the Avengers look bad/incompetent in the grand scheme of the MCU?

I mean after the events of "Winter Soldier", we saw the fallout of Cap's actions when it came to taking down SHIELD and how it affected the lives of every innocent SHIELD agent.

And as we all know, the Avengers reunited sometime between the events of "Winter Soldier" and "Age of Ultron" (which would mean somewhere between Season 1 and 2).

However, despite all of the worldwide threats that Coulson's SHIELD has come across and faced since then, the only threats that the Avengers tackled were Hydra bases (that may have had Loki's scepter) and Crossbones.

So either the Avengers don't care about anything other than Hydra when it relates to something otherworldly or they're very incompetent when it comes to finding/locating other threats to the world.
I think as viewers, we have to assume the Avengers are dealing with other threats, and not just sitting around. The same reason Spider-Man didn't show up to stop Punisher shooting people in hells kitchen during Daredevil S2. Or the same reason The Flash doesn't show up to beat every Arrow villain instantly. Assume that if they're not there, they're dealing with their own stuff.

We only see two missions the Avengers go on in Ultron, but they could very well have been the last in a series of 100 missions that happened off screen. Coulson leads an underground first response strike team, and the avengers don't even know he's alive. So it stands to reason he's not calling them for backup every 2 seconds.

Quote:
And another big issue is how every villain, who have had plans to either destroy or take over the world on this show, never worry about the Avengers as potential threats to their plans....and Coulson's SHIELD are treated as though they're humanity's last line of defense against those threats.

Look at how their efforts and existence are completely dismissed in Aida's Framework...a reality that's supposed to exist where everyone's biggest regrets no longer exist.

Any thoughts on this?
This is interesting. Jemma was "killed" in the Hydra mutiny, which took place while she was at the academy. So we have to assume Hydra moved much earlier in this timeline than the original one.

Presumably that means there was no avengers in this world. It would actually be interesting to get some references to that stuff. Maybe Banner never became the hulk, or Tony Stark was killed or something. Cap is probably still in the ice.

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Old 04-25-2017, 07:42 PM   #3
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

Quote:
Originally Posted by herolee10 View Post
I've been meaning to make a thread on this topic for awhile now, but I wanted to get everyone else's thoughts about this as well.

Overall, do you guys think that this show inadvertently makes the Avengers look bad/incompetent in the grand scheme of the MCU?

I mean after the events of "Winter Soldier", we saw the fallout of Cap's actions when it came to taking down SHIELD and how it affected the lives of every innocent SHIELD agent.

And as we all know, the Avengers reunited sometime between the events of "Winter Soldier" and "Age of Ultron" (which would mean somewhere between Season 1 and 2).

However, despite all of the worldwide threats that Coulson's SHIELD has come across and faced since then, the only threats that the Avengers tackled were Hydra bases (that may have had Loki's scepter) and Crossbones.

So either the Avengers don't care about anything other than Hydra when it relates to something otherworldly or they're very incompetent when it comes to finding/locating other threats to the world.

And another big issue is how every villain, who have had plans to either destroy or take over the world on this show, never worry about the Avengers as potential threats to their plans....and Coulson's SHIELD are treated as though they're humanity's last line of defense against those threats.

Look at how their efforts and existence are completely dismissed in Aida's Framework...a reality that's supposed to exist where everyone's biggest regrets no longer exist.

Any thoughts on this?
I don't think Shield is at the same level as Avengers.
Shield to ME is more or less a low level group that tries to keep events that might frighten the normal population out of the public eye. Like hiding or retrieving 084 type things the normal population might find be alittle on the scary side. Avengers seem to be more a global group that stop threats like Hydra.
Avengers are more a military group than shield is. What gets ME, is Shield has been public again, why hasn't the Avengers acknowledged them?

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Old 04-25-2017, 09:36 PM   #4
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syncos View Post
I think as viewers, we have to assume the Avengers are dealing with other threats, and not just sitting around. The same reason Spider-Man didn't show up to stop Punisher shooting people in hells kitchen during Daredevil S2. Or the same reason The Flash doesn't show up to beat every Arrow villain instantly. Assume that if they're not there, they're dealing with their own stuff.

We only see two missions the Avengers go on in Ultron, but they could very well have been the last in a series of 100 missions that happened off screen. Coulson leads an underground first response strike team, and the avengers don't even know he's alive. So it stands to reason he's not calling them for backup every 2 seconds.

.
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I don't think Shield is at the same level as Avengers.
Shield to ME is more or less a low level group that tries to keep events that might frighten the normal population out of the public eye. Like hiding or retrieving 084 type things the normal population might find be alittle on the scary side. Avengers seem to be more a global group that stop threats like Hydra.
Avengers are more a military group than shield is. What gets ME, is Shield has been public again, why hasn't the Avengers acknowledged them?
Honestly, at the end of the day, I think the fact that there doesn't seem to be much unity between the film and television divisions could also explain why some things don't match up.

Also, even after the events of AOU, the Avengers never made another move against Hydra. In fact the show gave that honor and glory to SHIELD, thus making the Avengers look somewhat incompetent.

And I honestly have no idea on why, story wise, the Avengers wouldn't have contacted shield in any way, even before the events of CW.

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Old 04-25-2017, 10:24 PM   #5
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

Maybe Avengers didn't know they were back during CW?

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Old 04-26-2017, 08:40 AM   #6
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

I don't think the bad light is on the Avengers, but on the show itself. One of the biggest complaints I've always had is that it makes it impossible to believe they wouldn't have the Avengers handling some of these threats, especially the Inhuman ones. That's why I never fell in love with that story line, I wish they were dealing with more "regular" threats then the supernatural ones so to speak. Shows like Daredevil, Luke Cage, etc make it believable that no one is calling on the Avengers. This does not.

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Old 04-26-2017, 07:02 PM   #7
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

could shield have taken on ultron or chitauri.

levels of dangers. If it gets above a certain level call the avengers if not their responsibility. other levels. NYPD saw a bullet proof blackman in harlem as their jurisdiction.

Hive i think, was the only avergers level danger they faced. but they sorted it, compromised their base when talbot and the american military had to take it to sort out the primatives.

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Old 04-26-2017, 11:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

Didn't SHIELD show up to help evacuate the floating city in Age of Ultron? If I recall, Cap even mentioned the group by name.

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Old 04-27-2017, 02:41 AM   #9
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

Quote:
Originally Posted by herolee10 View Post
However, despite all of the worldwide threats that Coulson's SHIELD has come across and faced since then, the only threats that the Avengers tackled were Hydra bases (that may have had Loki's scepter) and Crossbones.
Why do you think this? This is what we see, yes, but there is no reason to believe this is all they did. There could've been a ton of other missions that were simply not shown in the movies due to time constraints or because they simply weren't interesting enough for their own movie.

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Look at how their efforts and existence are completely dismissed in Aida's Framework...a reality that's supposed to exist where everyone's biggest regrets no longer exist.
Not everyone's, just those of Coulson, Mace, Fitz, May, Mack and Agnes.

So, super powered people are shunned and Hydra takes over 2 years before the events of "Iron Man". Bruce already is the Hulk at this point, so don't know what happened to him, he's probably hiding somewhere (it's always possible that due to some butterfly effect these events were changed because Fitz was different, but that might be a stretch). Coulson never joined SHIELD, so he would not go to Stark. Obadiah Stane might have seen an ally in Hydra and used their help to get rid of Tony, while none of the events of "Iron Man" happened, so he's out. If Hydra ever found Steve, they would surely either kill him or brainwash him, so no Steve or Tony so far. If Thor came to earth he wouldn't exactly feel welcome in this world where aliens and powerful beings were prosecuted. Would he leave as soon as he could, never looking back? Or would he try to liberate the world? Who knows. Nick Fury, Natasha and Clint would probably be killed on sight as enemies of Hydra. Without Tony or Cap no War Machine or Falcon. The twins were never convinced to help the Avengers since there are none. Vision was never built. Etc.

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Old 04-27-2017, 03:38 AM   #10
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

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Why do you think this? This is what we see, yes, but there is no reason to believe this is all they did. There could've been a ton of other missions that were simply not shown in the movies due to time constraints or because they simply weren't interesting enough for their own movie.


Not everyone's, just those of Coulson, Mace, Fitz, May, Mack and Agnes.

So, super powered people are shunned and Hydra takes over 2 years before the events of "Iron Man". Bruce already is the Hulk at this point, so don't know what happened to him, he's probably hiding somewhere (it's always possible that due to some butterfly effect these events were changed because Fitz was different, but that might be a stretch). Coulson never joined SHIELD, so he would not go to Stark. Obadiah Stane might have seen an ally in Hydra and used their help to get rid of Tony, while none of the events of "Iron Man" happened, so he's out. If Hydra ever found Steve, they would surely either kill him or brainwash him, so no Steve or Tony so far. If Thor came to earth he wouldn't exactly feel welcome in this world where aliens and powerful beings were prosecuted. Would he leave as soon as he could, never looking back? Or would he try to liberate the world? Who knows. Nick Fury, Natasha and Clint would probably be killed on sight as enemies of Hydra. Without Tony or Cap no War Machine or Falcon. The twins were never convinced to help the Avengers since there are none. Vision was never built. Etc.
Regarding the murder of enemies of Hydra, that seems plausible. In fact, in TWS they have a target list of millions IIRC - including Banner. In the Framework, they probably did carry out mass assassinations worldwide - Jemma and everyone else at SHIELD's academy are an example -, even if the list was probably shorter by then, since it happened earlier. But Banner might have been on the list already - though the Hulk isn't easy to kill.
Also, it's not clear that there is a Thor in the Framework. Do they have enough computing power to simulate also Asgard? And where do they get the info to make simulated Thor even similar to original Thor? (the same could be asked about some of the others, unless SHIELD had the results of brain scans detailed enough to make a close match).

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Old 04-27-2017, 03:48 AM   #11
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

Quote:
Originally Posted by herolee10
Overall, do you guys think that this show inadvertently makes the Avengers look bad/incompetent in the grand scheme of the MCU?
If one does not suspend disbelief, I'll grant that I also think there are difficulties, but I think they extend beyond the Avengers (and also, even without the show, one can find problems in the MCU).
In general, I think that's a difficulty common to at least nearly all stories involving fantasy, comics, sci-fi (at least, the "soft" variety), etc. - I can speculate to some extent for the fun of it, but I try not to dig too deep.

I know, that may not be a very optimistic or uplifting answer. But I think it's the way things are.


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Old 04-28-2017, 08:51 AM   #12
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

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Didn't SHIELD show up to help evacuate the floating city in Age of Ultron? If I recall, Cap even mentioned the group by name.
They did, but not Coulson's group. They did get clean up duty after Thor: The Dark World though.

But regardless, anything with Inhumans would be an Avenger level threat, IMO. Daisy Sue robbing banks, Hive, all of those would've been wrapped up quickly with Avengers.

I know there's nothing we can do about it now. I doubt the show cares how unbelievable they make themselves look.

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Old 04-28-2017, 08:49 PM   #13
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

Vartha claimed that the Avengers have not acknowledged the return of SHIELD and then furthered the point by suggesting that maybe the Avengers weren't aware that SHIELD was back during the Civil War.

My point is that this is not true. The Avengers knew that SHIELD existed during Age of Ultron (after the fall, but before Civil War)...and Cap even acknowledged their existence.

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Old 04-29-2017, 09:15 AM   #14
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

Shield is an intelligence agency while the Avengers are more of a strike force

I like to think shield passes along intelligence to the Avengers when it makes sense. But it's tricky to drop a line indicating they there are doing without being out of place or making fans go crazy with connections and speculations that it distracts from the show. I like to think when Talbot order strikes against Hydra wiping them out, the avengers were assigned to one location. Nice to have that line but could have distracted from the moment.

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Old 05-11-2017, 08:28 AM   #15
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

No. The Avengers deal with bigger threats such as Loki and Ultron, whilst SHIELD (even if they are worldwide threats) deal with smaller ones.

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Old 05-11-2017, 09:06 AM   #16
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

Still seems that the Avengers aren't fully aware Shield's back. STEVE broke Shield up in Winter Soldier, you would think he would at least say something about that fact in AoU or CW seeing as he broke up Shield.
Marvel seems to be avoiding that fact for some reason. Yes, Steve says "That's what Shield's SUPPOSED to be" in AoU about Fury's rag tag team. Which seems to be another faction all together apart from Phil's team.
I can't figure out WHY they Keep the fact Phil's ALIVE from the Avengers. Would it be THAT devastating?

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Old 05-11-2017, 09:16 AM   #17
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I can't figure out WHY they Keep the fact Phil's ALIVE from the Avengers. Would it be THAT devastating?
I guess Coulson's worried that it would split up The Avengers given his death was what brought them together. That's a moot point now they have disbanded into factions in Civil War though.

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Old 05-11-2017, 09:27 AM   #18
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

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I guess Coulson's worried that it would split up The Avengers given his death was what brought them together. That's a moot point now they have disbanded into factions in Civil War though.
He told Sif HE wanted to tell Thor HIMSELF that he was alive. It's not that he doesn't want to.
Since the Avengers are at odds right NOW, wouldn't it be cool to see Phil patch things up between the Avengers to battle Thanos? Phil's a FAN, I can see Phil giving them a pep talk so to speak like a fanboy basically making them feel alittle childish and selfish for fighting among each other.
Granted, Steve left Tony that note saying "just give me a call if you need me" Phil could give them a guilt trip in a big way lol

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Old 05-11-2017, 09:48 AM   #19
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

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He told Sif HE wanted to tell Thor HIMSELF that he was alive. It's not that he doesn't want to.
Since the Avengers are at odds right NOW, wouldn't it be cool to see Phil patch things up between the Avengers to battle Thanos? Phil's a FAN, I can see Phil giving them a pep talk so to speak like a fanboy basically making them feel alittle childish and selfish for fighting among each other.
Granted, Steve left Tony that note saying "just give me a call if you need me" Phil could give them a guilt trip in a big way lol
I think that would be the best way to bring the Avengers back together in Infinity War.

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Old 05-11-2017, 10:30 AM   #20
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

I think folks need to be realistic here and get over wanting the SHIELD show to cross over with the movies & Netflix.

We all know the real life politics going on. Move on and enjoy the universe we do have instead of pining for something that ain't happening any time soon.

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Old 05-11-2017, 10:36 AM   #21
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

Asking this is like asking why every comic character doesn't appear in every comic that exists. Separate the stories!

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Old 05-11-2017, 11:03 AM   #22
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

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Asking this is like asking why every comic character doesn't appear in every comic that exists. Separate the stories!
I don't know why this is so hard to grasp.

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Old 05-11-2017, 11:41 AM   #23
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

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Asking this is like asking why every comic character doesn't appear in every comic that exists. Separate the stories!
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I don't know why this is so hard to grasp.
But if IW is supposed to be the Avengers all out heroes, why wouldn't Phil be included. Fury himself calls Phil an Avenger.

I'm not asking for the Avengers to appear on the show, more like Phil to make ONE appearance that brings them back together in and for Infinity War.

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Old 05-11-2017, 11:50 AM   #24
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

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Fury himself calls Phil an Avenger.
I wouldn't quite go that far.

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Old 05-11-2017, 12:25 PM   #25
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Default Re: Does this show inadvertently portray the Avengers in a bad light?

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But if IW is supposed to be the Avengers all out heroes, why wouldn't Phil be included. Fury himself calls Phil an Avenger.

I'm not asking for the Avengers to appear on the show, more like Phil to make ONE appearance that brings them back together in and for Infinity War.
Because Kevin Feige & Ike Pearlmutter are beefin'.

Simple as that. Getting upset that it's not going to happen isn't going to make it happen.

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