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Old 05-10-2017, 11:15 AM   #51
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

I was kind of hoping for a 2 hour season finale, but, from what I can find, it's only an hour

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Old 05-10-2017, 11:40 AM   #52
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Vartha View Post
I was kind of hoping for a 2 hour season finale, but, from what I can find, it's only an hour
Well, typically when they've done 2 hour finales in the past on AOS, it's not a genuine 2 hour single episode, it's more because they've stuck episodes 21 & 22 together and just aired them the same night back to back.

Just, for whatever reason, they opted not to do that this season and air the 2 episodes separately

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Old 05-10-2017, 11:43 AM   #53
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Silvermoon View Post
Well, typically when they've done 2 hour finales in the past on AOS, it's not a genuine 2 hour single episode, it's more because they've stuck episodes 21 & 22 together and just aired them the same night back to back.

Just, for whatever reason, they opted not to do that this season and air the 2 episodes separately
They had less of a break this season too if I recall right

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Old 05-10-2017, 03:28 PM   #54
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Chemistro View Post
I think we don't know what sort of torture they inflicted on Daisy, exactly, or whether there was another inhuman in the framework with the same power that they experimented on, though.

As for unlimited power, I think in order to give herself a power, the power has to work in the "real" world as well, and she probably doesn't know how to make an inhuman with unlimited power (if it's possible).
So, what she probably did was replicate the DNA that they had on different databases, the info about known inhuman powers, etc., and then have Fitz use all that to figure out how those known powers work, and how to combine them.
She wouldn't have had access to real-world DNA of all the inhumans. Not likely that she ever got access to Gordon's DNA since he died on the carrier. I mean I guess they might have made a database but it seems more like it's the manifestation of imagination etc

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Old 05-10-2017, 03:36 PM   #55
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

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She wouldn't have had access to real-world DNA of all the inhumans. Not likely that she ever got access to Gordon's DNA since he died on the carrier. I mean I guess they might have made a database but it seems more like it's the manifestation of imagination etc
Well anything the new Hydra and Shield would have had during the Inhumans stories she could have accessed. Remember, Hydra had a bunch of containers. MANY we never saw.

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Old 05-10-2017, 05:36 PM   #56
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

Well, we know Ghost Rider will be a deus ex machina for whatever **** happens next week.

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Old 05-10-2017, 07:19 PM   #57
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

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Kind of a MODOK reference in this episode...but I'm going to assume that it was throwaway fan service and not actually leading to anything or that the Superior is THE MODOK of the MCU.
I caught that one too. I forgot that his human version was just a head in a jar at this point as well.

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Old 05-10-2017, 07:19 PM   #58
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

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She wouldn't have had access to real-world DNA of all the inhumans. Not likely that she ever got access to Gordon's DNA since he died on the carrier. I mean I guess they might have made a database but it seems more like it's the manifestation of imagination etc
But if that were the case, it seems to me they wouldn't need to bother with inhumans, experiments, etc. They could just make her have all of the powers they want her to have, as you suggested.

Gordon was killed on the carrier by Shield, so they probably collected a DNA sample, as they probably did with the rest of the dead inhumans they found and the inhumans they killed. That would be standard procedure for Shield, I think. The Framework was built allegedly as a training ground for Shield agents and it was made by Radcliffe and Fitz and improved by Aida, so I'm thinking either Radcliffe or Aida got access to the info on inhumans on a Shield database, in one way or another.

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Old 05-10-2017, 07:25 PM   #59
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

This show is SOOOO much better now that they are out of imagine-land. This episode was great!

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Old 05-10-2017, 08:04 PM   #60
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

That episode was almost unwatchable for me. Only Ian De Caestecker's acting, the FitzSimmons moment and Robbie returning made it tolerable.

With my luck this show will get cancelled and we'll never see it post this annoying AIDA story.

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Old 05-10-2017, 08:57 PM   #61
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

Counterpoint: The show has never been better than this year, and hit its creative highlight during the AIDA arc. And it's very likely we'll be getting more of them next year.

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Old 05-10-2017, 11:20 PM   #62
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

Can anyone tell me what happens to Mack? I havent been able to watch the show yet.

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Old 05-11-2017, 12:15 AM   #63
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

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Can anyone tell me what happens to Mack? I havent been able to watch the show yet.
Aida rescued him from the sinking platform when she was trying to do good for some reason (maybe to please Fitz; maybe the novelty and/or to see how it felt; maybe a bit of both), but he's still stuck in the Framework.

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Old 05-11-2017, 02:02 AM   #64
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Chemistro View Post
Aida rescued him from the sinking platform when she was trying to do good for some reason (maybe to please Fitz; maybe the novelty and/or to see how it felt; maybe a bit of both), but he's still stuck in the Framework.
and Yo Yo put herself in the framework to be with him they ARE with Shield right now as far as we know

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Old 05-11-2017, 07:00 AM   #65
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

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That episode was almost unwatchable for me. Only Ian De Caestecker's acting.
I felt the same way during the framework episodes, but I'm content now. Opposing views are great!

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Old 05-11-2017, 07:40 AM   #66
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

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That episode was almost unwatchable for me. Only Ian De Caestecker's acting, the FitzSimmons moment and Robbie returning made it tolerable.

With my luck this show will get cancelled and we'll never see it post this annoying AIDA story.
Ummm no one is forcing you to watch it, but because you can't control your own viewing habits you want it to be cancelled so the rest of us that like this show can do without? How very reasonable of you.

As for the episode, great episode. Ophelia is one crazy scary *****. Hell, hath no fury like a superpowered crazy woman scorned. I could have watched an entire episode of her going all Michael Myers on them in the base. Her stalking and teleporting around picking people off one by one while the agents try to survive and find a way out. Tho I do kind of regret that the show couldn't turn Ophelia into a good member of the team. Now that she has emotions and can actually grasp emotions and feelings I thought she might be given the chance to become a good person like the human that AIDA was based on. But then Fitz broke her heart and psycho ex mode activated and that was that. No redeeming that superpowered psycho.

Some good funny moments with Phil and May. May on Epi is great. And Phil dodging the awkward truth about him and Maybot is pretty funny. Hopefully it won't mess things up between them too bad.

And Ophelia's power run after she healed her gunshot wounds. Idk if the actress is just a goofy runner, bad at running for the camera, or if the director instructed her to do that, but it was funny.

Glad to see that Fitz and Gemma haven't given up on each other.

That damn Russian bastard is like a cockroach. He won't ****ing die! Shine a light in a dark sub and a million of those bastards scatter.

That military guy is still an idiot.

Yoyo is being an idiot, but she is in love so I can understand why she did what she did, but going into the framework half cocked with no Intel or knowledge of the world in the Framework was just so reckless.

I for one hope the show gets more seasons.

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Old 05-11-2017, 08:04 AM   #67
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

I've had several conversations with numerous people at my work and most are in agreement that this is the best season of AoS thus far. Would that be the general consensus around here?

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Old 05-11-2017, 09:14 AM   #68
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

It is for ME. I LOVED they had three different stories in the season, over dragging ONE IDEA out. The Inhuman story-line could have been done in half the time it was to be honest.

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Old 05-11-2017, 09:17 AM   #69
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Marvolo View Post
Ummm no one is forcing you to watch it, but because you can't control your own viewing habits you want it to be cancelled so the rest of us that like this show can do without? How very reasonable of you.

As for the episode, great episode. Ophelia is one crazy scary *****. Hell, hath no fury like a superpowered crazy woman scorned. I could have watched an entire episode of her going all Michael Myers on them in the base. Her stalking and teleporting around picking people off one by one while the agents try to survive and find a way out. Tho I do kind of regret that the show couldn't turn Ophelia into a good member of the team. Now that she has emotions and can actually grasp emotions and feelings I thought she might be given the chance to become a good person like the human that AIDA was based on. But then Fitz broke her heart and psycho ex mode activated and that was that. No redeeming that superpowered psycho.

Some good funny moments with Phil and May. May on Epi is great. And Phil dodging the awkward truth about him and Maybot is pretty funny. Hopefully it won't mess things up between them too bad.

And Ophelia's power run after she healed her gunshot wounds. Idk if the actress is just a goofy runner, bad at running for the camera, or if the director instructed her to do that, but it was funny.

Glad to see that Fitz and Gemma haven't given up on each other.

That damn Russian bastard is like a cockroach. He won't ****ing die! Shine a light in a dark sub and a million of those bastards scatter.


That military guy is still an idiot.

Yoyo is being an idiot, but she is in love so I can understand why she did what she did, but going into the framework half cocked with no Intel or knowledge of the world in the Framework was just so reckless.

I for one hope the show gets more seasons.
I keep expecting the Russian to make a reference to BvS lol

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Old 05-11-2017, 10:10 AM   #70
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

The Netflix shows could learn a thing or two about how to run their shows based on the structure of this season of SHIELD.

Instead of trying to stretch a whole story over 13 episodes, just do maybe 3 arcs of 4 episodes tying them all together in the 13th.

I thought they were moving in that direction, but they haven't totally nailed the formula yet.

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Old 05-11-2017, 03:02 PM   #71
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

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Ummm no one is forcing you to watch it, but because you can't control your own viewing habits you want it to be cancelled so the rest of us that like this show can do without? How very reasonable of you.
Please point out the part of my post where I said I want this show to be cancelled.

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Old 05-11-2017, 11:37 PM   #72
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

I was sad that AIDA didn't become good. She's a likeable actress, especially when she's playing good and not crazy or villainous. I hope she doesn't get killed off at the end of the season next week but that they keep the actress around next season.

Or if not, someone give Mallory her own show as the lead. She could totally carry a show, whatever role she's playing. I hope she gets more work after this.

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Old 05-12-2017, 05:57 PM   #73
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

From Mallory Jansen's Twitter:




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Old 05-13-2017, 11:53 AM   #74
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

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Makes me wonder what next season will be like?

You KNOW this isn't going to be completely solved in one show
On the other hand, they've kind of been building to a reasonable finale if they weren't getting a new season (which they wouldn't have known one way or the other). This episode was a perfect example, it's a great callback to the hero worship Fitz had in the first season for Ward. That betrayal was great and this is full circle for that. Now I suspect the Superior will still be around, but I think they'll stop Aida.

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I normally hate the "woman scorned" cliché as villain motivation. But they kind of make it work here because they've established, across multiple incarnations, that for all of her power, AIDA has the emotional/mental maturity of a child. So yeah, she probably would lash out pettily if the guy that she liked rejected her.
I agree. You always have to be cautious with something like that, but it's handled well here and it makes Aida a more complex, somewhat sympathetic villain.

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Forgot the lightning, but the fire healing would probably have been some side-effect from the Darkhold.
I doubt it. Fitz was able to intuit her powers are the powers of Inhumans experimented on in the framework. He figured out that she wouldn't die. It stands to reason this was the power of someone in the framework and not due to the Darkhold.

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Old 05-13-2017, 12:52 PM   #75
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Default Re: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x21 - "The Return" - Discussion Thread

Yeah I question how they'll be able to wrap all of this up in one episode. Part me would like to see AIDA survive in some form, but maybe go/be taken off someplace for a while (and potentially come back later).

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