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View Poll Results: What will be Avengers 2 final RT score?
90-100% 21 13.38%
80-89% 90 57.32%
70-79% 37 23.57%
60-69% 6 3.82%
50-59% 0 0%
49% or lower 3 1.91%
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Old 05-04-2015, 09:29 AM   #851
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Marchesk View Post
No, Loki is the one strong villain in the MCU, so far. The rest are meh.
Bull****. I think with the lone exception of Malekith(who got shafted) they've all been strong and unique villains and I can remember them all easily. Now I'll say Loki is probably the strongest of them all character-wise but that doesn't mean the others suck. This all of nothing mentality I simply do not understand. Not being the top of the heap =/= failure.

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Old 05-04-2015, 10:16 AM   #852
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

Loki was the best, by far

but I thought Killian was solid
semi-tragic backstory, pretty clear motives

Alexander Pierce would be up there with Loki if he was a fan-favorite from the comics
but for some Joe Schmo Hydra agent, he was damn good

Stane was a great villain, the third act just let him down a bit

Red Skull was underdeveloped, but awesome looking, chewed scenery in the best way, and had a decent enough plan
Same for Ultron, IMO

Ronan and Malekith were the two I though were most poorly done
their backstory was nil, motives were unclear, evil scheme was vague and too "destroy the world"-y

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Old 05-04-2015, 10:33 AM   #853
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

I liked Ronan. He fit the style of that movie. They did all the backstory they needed with the explanation that he's a Kree fanatic. He's basically space Al Quaeda.

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Old 05-04-2015, 10:43 AM   #854
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

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I liked Ronan. He fit the style of that movie. They did all the backstory they needed with the explanation that he's a Kree fanatic. He's basically space Al Quaeda.
I liked Ronan a lot. I'd put him in the same category as Red Skull. Awesome design, over-the-top villainy, not very deep but fitting for their respective movies.

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Old 05-04-2015, 10:59 AM   #855
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

Whiplash was one of my favorites as well as Justin Hammer. Whiplash precisely because he was a mockery of the instantly professional supervillain who comes out of the package fully formed like he read the script(hello Raimiverse, Spidey villains). Whiplash was an amateur supervillain. He had one single goal and he accomplished it by the end of act 1. Everything after that was him reacting to how circumstances for him suddenly changed following what he did in act 1. He was basically just flying by the seat of his pants at that point and to me that makes him hella unique among supervillains.

And Hammer was just a delight with Rockwell turning him into a wanna-be Tony Stark who lacked the genius but was still willing to fill that gap with willingness to do evil to achieve his goals.

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Old 05-04-2015, 11:03 AM   #856
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

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I am not sorry to say, AOU did nothing better than the first Avengers. It's biggest issue were critical scenes were cut, the pacing was horrible, the villain sucked and was weak, and it just didn't flow like a movie. I felt I was watching a theater play.

I probably had my anticipation to high after the stellar The Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy (both movies with far better stories, villains, thrills, action and humor than AOU tried.
The Winter Soldier was somewhat better made. I prefer AoU because WS only barely feels like a superhero movie. To say that you didn't like Ultron or the pacing was weak is fair. To say that Guardians had better stories, villains, thrills and action is completely ridiculous. Ronan was the worst villain marvel studios has ever made. The GotG plot has just as many holes as AoU. And the action scenes in this movie are among the best Marvel studios has made. The humor, as always, is a matter of pure taste.

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Old 05-04-2015, 11:13 AM   #857
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

I like AoU and TWS pretty much evenly(both 9/10's). GotG however, no...it isn't in their league, IMO. I only casually liked that movie(gave it an 8/10 I think). There was a lot left desired with GotG for me. But then, I don't care for outer space movies. Trek and Wars never did anything for me either. Setting a movie in space means I automatically care about 30% less right when I walk in. I need a familiar setting and no setting is more alien than space.

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Last edited by kedrell; 05-04-2015 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 05-04-2015, 11:15 AM   #858
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

I too liked Ronan.

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Old 05-04-2015, 11:32 AM   #859
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

With Ronan, it was a little bit of "show don't tell" for me

Don't just say "He's a Kree Fanatic"
and "he killed families" or whatever

I would've liked to have seen more of his brutality

killing the Nova Corpsman and the Other were good moments, but his "beliefs" that were so important were just given the barest lip service

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Old 05-04-2015, 11:39 AM   #860
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

Yes, he could have used more fleshing out. Still he was perfectly servicable, IMO. He was menacing and a threat and they conveyed that well with how easily he defeated Drax.

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Old 05-04-2015, 11:41 AM   #861
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

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Originally Posted by BoredGuy View Post
With Ronan, it was a little bit of "show don't tell" for me

Don't just say "He's a Kree Fanatic"
and "he killed families" or whatever

I would've liked to have seen more of his brutality

killing the Nova Corpsman and the Other were good moments, but his "beliefs" that were so important were just given the barest lip service
Sorry that doesn't fit with the format of that film. If slamming a hammer in a guys head isn't enough...I'm not sure what is.

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Old 05-04-2015, 01:15 PM   #862
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

it was enough to make him look tough
but not enough to give him an even remotely relatable perspective or motivation

he wasn't a bad villain, he was suitably scary, just thought he was shallow
plus its very disappointing that he's undeniably quite dead

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Old 05-04-2015, 04:19 PM   #863
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

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I liked Ronan. He fit the style of that movie. They did all the backstory they needed with the explanation that he's a Kree fanatic. He's basically space Al Quaeda.
Agreed.

Ronan worked for me because his motives were clear from the first act of the film. He's a Kree warrior who disagrees with the peace treaty his people made with Xandar so he offers up his services to Thanos in exchange for Xandar's destruction.

Simple and effective.

The casting of Lee Pace was also immaculate. He was fantastic in the role.

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Old 05-05-2015, 03:45 AM   #864
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

The movie was too chaotic. The first Avengers movies (for me) was more focused. I don't buy the argument AoU not having the 'wow' of the heroes meeting for the first time, being the reason for the drop in ratings. There are several examples of sequels that exceed the original movie.

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Old 05-05-2015, 05:09 PM   #865
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

I really need to go watch the movie again next weekend, maybe in 2D. I'm having problems remembering or understanding a lot of what happened the last third act of the film (didn't help that I had some mouth-breather in my audience who kept yelling out CIVIL WAR! ever time Stark and Rogers were on screen with each other and other nonsense). It definitely didn't give me the same feeling of awe and gratification that TA did. Makes me very anxious to see what the Russo's do going forward, since I absolutely loved TWS.

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Old 05-05-2015, 06:38 PM   #866
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

74% now.

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Old 05-05-2015, 10:43 PM   #867
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

It's 75%.

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Old 05-05-2015, 10:49 PM   #868
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

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I liked Ronan. He fit the style of that movie. They did all the backstory they needed with the explanation that he's a Kree fanatic. He's basically space Al Quaeda.
Not to mention, the whole dancing scene with him in it was quite hilarious!

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Old 12-16-2015, 02:51 PM   #869
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

Up to 75%.

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Old 12-16-2015, 04:30 PM   #870
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

Wow,still updating on this. xD

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Old 03-13-2016, 01:28 AM   #871
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Default Re: Avengers 2: Rotten Tomato Watch (No Spoilers l Spoiler Free Zone) - Part 1

Great to see some people appreciating this movie but Man the post stating AOU had no character development and Avengers had great character development, there is so much wrong with that post and no it's not an opinion their statement is wrong. It's rather confusing Avengers and WS are top movies yet the people watching them enjoy them so much they can't see the undeniable truth. Neither WS or Avengers had a lot of character development in Avengers case it had none, saying avengers had great development and AOU had none is so absurdly false, it's not an opinion you're wrong it can be factually proven your wrong. The Avengers is incredibly lazy and beyond generic Age of Ultron beats it in every conceivable way, story, emotion character development and even action Age of Ultron wins all of them. The first movie has the awe of all the heroes together but does nothing with it.

We learn hardly anything about the characters, how they are similar, different how this brings them into conflict or who they truly are. It's barely even a movie but rather one big spectacle devoid of anything resembling plot or character development.

The only thing the movie does, is make you go, OH MY GOODNESS Iron Man and Cap are in the same scene together, but it doesn't do anything with it. It's too tongue and cheek what's the point of having the heroes together if you don't do anything with them character wise. This is meaningless without proof so here you go.

First Hulk and Banner, in the first movie Banner is basically a machine of anger jokes these are his most memorable moments. He has a few meaningful scenes, like his talk with Stark and the fall out on the helicarriers but that's it, he doesn't have an arc, he just controls Hulk out of nowhere. In Age of Ultron Banner is actually the tortured soul he's meant to be, he's basically shield or more importantly Natasha's weapon and he hates it, he sees himself as a monster this is shown he refuses the idea of a happy life and is horrified when he awakens from his nightmare, he sends himself into exile out of guilt. How can anyone argue he's better in the first?

Steve, in the first movie he got a lot of screen time but little development nor did he get any real emotional depth, his dynamic with Stark was mostly humorous with the exception of the fall out. In Age of Ultron his conflict with Stark is actually quite intense at times especially in the second half few scenes involving them are humorous. Steve's nightmare brings his character to a completely different place, he doesn't want to stop fighting he doesn't know who he is without it, he doesn't want peace because in a world of peace he has no purpose. That adds a lot to Steve as a character and gives a far deeper look into his mind, I don't see how the first used him better.

Natasha, in the first she has her debt to Hawkeye but that only receives two scenes of actual focus and ends up having little pay off, aside from her debt we learn almost nothing about her, nothing about her past, why she feels the way she does even what her and Clint's bond is isn't really elaborated on. In Age we see her training and are shown the horrible things she had to do, we find out that she sees herself as nothing but a killer and a monster. I'll get into the romance arc later. We learn more about her we delve deeper into her mind and just have a better understanding of her, how did the first use her better?

Loki vs Ultron, Loki was great in Thor, in Avengers he's a cartoon villain whose plan is literally I will rule the world, everything that made Loki complex is completely sucked out of him. His relationship with Thor one scene and a fight, those are the only multi layered scenes he has, he has plenty of awesome speeches but there's nothing multi layered about him, his daddy issues gone, his self loathing gone, his envy of Thor barely focused on, and his overall miserable self is gone. Loki is witty he is funny and beneath all that he is completely miserable, Avengers barely shows this.

Ultron's pain is very clear his relationships with other characters namely the twins is actually shown, unlike Loki in Avengers Ultron has a clear character arc and a complex motivation, his desire with peace combined with his hopes to essentially become a real boy. Ultron's character is focused on his motives explored his relationships explored and his character very developed probably one of the most developed characters in the movie.

Threat level, Loki's plan works but there's a problem it's not because it was clever it's because the heroes were idiots, I knew what Loki was planning almost the moment they imprisoned him, it was obvious. The smile at Banner, the fact that he didn't escape while they were fighting, seriously it was obvious he wanted to be there and only Fury acknowledges this. The fallout is so forced argue about the weapons later deal with the problem at hand. Loki wasn't smart the avengers were idiots.

Ultron tears them apart by forcing them to face their worst nightmares and brainwashing hulk into going on a rampage to damage their image, the whole thing is actually a distraction to let him get away with his real goal. In truth it's similar to Loki's the difference the avengers aren't idiots, they fall for it because it was unexpected. While Loki's plans were obvious you never really knew what Ultron's next move would actually be. Both beat the heroes but Ultron's victory was through clever planning Loki's was the avengers stupidity.

Loki manages to kill many shield agents, brainwash Clint and slavec and steal the cube he then obtains what he needs for his portal and allows himself to be captured to stage an ambush and cripple the avengers and shield by using the hulk as his weapon. He then opens the portal and unleashes the Chitauri. Physical feats, include his escape at the beginning, fighting and overpowering cap, killing Coulson and fighting Thor before stabbing him.

Ultron manages to destroy Jarvis and infiltrate the internet, he uses the twins to get into the avengers heads and psychologically break many of them. He steals the vibranium, brainwashes cho and completes his last body. He captures black widow and successfully levitates sokovia into the air nearly causing a global extinction event. Physical feats include fighting Iron Man and matching him, overpowering captain America, briefly overpowering Thor and killing quicksilver.

Ultron is no less a physical threat than Loki and his plan is more damaging to the characters as well he also comes closer to achieving his goal, both of them. Both villains have near victory moments, Loki when the Chitauri overwhelm the Avengers, Ultron when the Avengers are going to sacrifice themselves and Sokovia. This would've been a victory for Ultron the avengers would have to sacrifice every innocent life, in his mind proving they are killers, proving he is better than them. Ultron has another when his last drone drops Sokovia.

Finally the romance arc while out of left field it makes sense who did Banner interact with the most Natasha. So there is a little set up but that doesn't matter as I said Bruce and Natasha are barely characters in the first movie the romance adds to both of them. It also makes sense, Natasha and Bruce are kindred spirits when you watch the scenes that develop them you see that they are very similar.

Both believe they are monsters, both have done terrible things, both are plagued by self loathing and both are incapable of having a family and emotionally cut themselves off from others. How does this not make sense look at how similar they are. The arc also develops the story Hulk is essentially a dog on Natasha's leash, Bruce always feared the hulk would become a weapon and that's exactly what happens Natasha uses hulk as a weapon against the avengers enemies in a way justifying both of their beliefs that they are monsters. This is surprisingly deep character development especially for marvel.

Now I skipped hawkeye but that's self explanatory as is Tony Thor is not better but I don't think he's worse either. The story is also self explanatory Ultron has the better story now throw in the fact that nearly all the characters have better arcs and the movie delves deeper into the characters and their emotions and once again aside from being more fun how on Earth is Avengers better than Age of Ultron? To further add WS has a good story and tone but minimum character development in fact AOU is the only movie in phase 2 that actually has a lot of character development, it also has more depth than WS, once again this can proven with full on facts.


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