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Old 05-09-2015, 04:54 PM   #76
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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You sound like you disagree
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Disagree with killing him off? Yeah. I wouldn't have done it.

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Old 05-09-2015, 06:21 PM   #77
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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Peititons are OK as a way to make the fans think they're taking action, but I'm pretty sure Marvel doesn't give two hoots about what the fans want. if Feige says he's not coming back, then he's not coming back, exdept maybe in flashbacks or dreams or something.

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Old 05-09-2015, 06:30 PM   #78
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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Disagree with killing him off? Yeah. I wouldn't have done it.
But also that killing someone doesn't work to clarify stakes in an action movie

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Old 05-09-2015, 07:22 PM   #79
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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Disagree with killing him off? Yeah. I wouldn't have done it.
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I also disagree with Whedon's decision to kill QS off, especially after he admitted that he did it just because he needs a character to die so the movie will feel like a real war story, with casualty to illustrate the horrors of war. And Whedon did not really make QS's sacrifice really relevant to the plot of the movie either; it was done almost like it was obligatory and forced into the movie.

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Old 05-09-2015, 07:29 PM   #80
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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I also disagree with Whedon's decision to kill QS off, especially after he admitted that he did it just because he needs a character to die so the movie will feel like a real war story, with casualty to illustrate the horrors of war. And Whedon did not really make QS's sacrifice really relevant to the plot of the movie either; it was done almost like it was obligatory and forced into the movie.
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It wasn't relevant. The story would have unfolded the way it did whether he died or not, which makes his death seem even more arbitrary and pointless.

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Old 05-09-2015, 07:36 PM   #81
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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But also that killing someone doesn't work to clarify stakes in an action movie
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I find it really only works either for specific story purposes or to set up the idea that anybody can die in this environment (think Game of Thrones) so EVERYBODY is at risk. Neither is the case here. It comes as a complete afterthought that doesn't improve this film in any meaningful way.

It also didn't help that it was so completely telegraphed in advanced. Tony all but said that one of them is going to die in this fight, and as soon as he made that speech, I pretty much knew immediately that either Quicksilver or Hawkeye were doomed as they were the obvious sacrificial lambs. So it wasn't exactly surprising.


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Old 05-09-2015, 11:27 PM   #82
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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Why is that a sad thing? Fox as well as the general audience should not care.
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Fox did nothing wrong in this scenario. I'm all for flaming them when they deserve it but Fox are not wrong Marvel is. They had a temper tantrum after Fox beat them to the punch with QS so they erased their connection with each other.
That's why I said it was sad, this little petty war that Marvel decide to do, and get some sort of revenge by changing stuff up in the comics just makes them look foolish. The general audience more than likely don't read the comics, nor do they give a crap what happens in the comics. And, all of this child's play on Marvel's part in the end is not making the wallets of Fox any lighter! What's Marvel going to do if Fox decides to do something with their Scarlet Witch, and they hit it out of the park?

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Old 05-09-2015, 11:32 PM   #83
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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Peititons are OK as a way to make the fans think they're taking action, but I'm pretty sure Marvel doesn't give two hoots about what the fans want. if Feige says he's not coming back, then he's not coming back, exdept maybe in flashbacks or dreams or something.
Yeah, I disagree with this. If Marvel didn't care about what the fans wanted, then Ironman wouldn't be so focused because of the fanbase. And, Kevin Fiege has bosses above him that can steam role any decision.

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Old 05-10-2015, 06:08 AM   #84
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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Yeah, I disagree with this. If Marvel didn't care about what the fans wanted, then Ironman wouldn't be so focused because of the fanbase. And, Kevin Fiege has bosses above him that can steam role any decision.
Not to mention Coulson would still be dead.

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Old 05-10-2015, 06:18 AM   #85
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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Problem is, QS' death didn't come across as an example of the tragic cost of war. Instead it felt like a cheap ploy to make the whole noisy mess mean something. The impression to me is, "What - they killed him already??"

It didn't help that he had QS say "I didn't see that coming" right after getting shot, which both ruined the emotional moment by playing his getting shot for laughs and indicated that his action to save Clint and the child was NOT self-sacrificial in any way. It wasn't a matter of him giving his life to save the boy and Clint - he didn't think he was going to get shot. It was an accident.
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I have seen this said about other moments in the MCU, and for me personally a small quip after a tragedy doesn't lessen the blow. In fact, in certain cases like Tony or Pietro, it tends to make the moment more poignant for me personally because it fits their character. Nothing breaks an emotional scene like suddenly going with some over the top, sentimental OOC moment just to make everything seem more dramatic. For me, Pietro's last line worked because it showed a bit of his cocky personality even as he was dying.

If anything hurt his death in terms of working emotionally I think it was the scene where they have his dead body just laid out on the lifeboat and Clint just sort of collapses next to it, making his own little comment and not really reacting to the body. I get what that shot was trying to show, it just came off a bit too much like they just picked up his corpse, threw it in the back of the van, and washed their hands of the mess.

Also, a lot of people seem to be mourning the loss of POTENTIAL rather than the actual character, but I honestly really liked Pietro despite his small amount of screen time. He had enough small moments with his sister, not too mention the more obvious ones like the story of their parents death or his relationship with Hawkeye, that I feel gave him an obvious personality. It's not like he was just a place holder with a cool power. He was a hurt kid whose only real relationship was with his sister because she was the only one who could understand what he went through. He had a rash and arrogant personality which is why his being so focused on revenge as to overlook the faults of Hydra and Ultron worked. Someone that sure of themselves doesn't sit and think before acting, especially when they are doing so out of what they feel is a righteous anger. Character wise it makes sense that Pietro would die because he was careless and took action first. Earlier when it's Ultron and the twins against the Avengers, Pietro literally runs right into battle, and Wanda has to react quick to protect him. This time Wanda was not around and he went off without thinking how he was going to get himself out of there. He was focused on saving the kid, and that's what he did.

Which doesn't make me any less upset over his death. I really loved all those small moments between the twins and it breaks my heart that the next time we see Wanda he won't be there. But I don't feel it was completely random. It made sense with his personality and it gave him a heroic arc. It's not the one I wanted to see, but it makes sense for that perspective.

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Old 05-10-2015, 04:05 PM   #86
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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I was disappointed by Pietro's death, but I really appreciated the way they did it. Saving Hawkeye, the guy he had a rivalry/banter thing going with for the whole movie, was great, and throwing in a kid too only made it more bittersweet. Pietro showed himself a hero in that scene and it was perhaps the best death scene, for me, in a Marvel movie (Coulson's would beat it but...he survived).

Had it been me, I wouldn't have killed him off. But it had a good impact (for me, anyway). They may not have mentioned it later on, but it was apparent when Hawkeye laid his body down on the shuttle and laid down beside him on the bench that he was devastated. And Wanda was, too. It was not a bad decision to me, just not I would've made myself.

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Old 05-10-2015, 05:22 PM   #87
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

Given the characters powers, and how its shown multiple times what he can do, the end result is sadly disappointing... more whedon nonsense

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Old 05-10-2015, 05:34 PM   #88
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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Given the characters powers, and how its shown multiple times what he can do, the end result is sadly disappointing... more whedon nonsense
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The way I saw it, Quicksilver just pushed Hawkeye and the kid out of the way. In doing so, he was right in the midst of the bullets as they were probably already reaching Hawkeye and the kid. He can outrun a bullet, maybe, but not when it's an inch or less from his skin when he gets in front of it. He has been hit by a bullet before–when the cop shot him. He's not so fast as to be completely untouchable. And you can tell by the look on his face before he runs forward that he knows if he does this, he won't be surviving it. I didn't have a problem with it. Now, if he'd been shown before to be able to run through a stream of machine gun bullets while dodging them all, that would've been a different story, but that's not what was shown.

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Old 05-11-2015, 12:45 AM   #89
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

Wouldn't it be amazing if the Fox Quicksilver was put in the same situation in X-Men: Apocalypse and ends up dodging all the bullets or having them bounce of him.

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Old 05-11-2015, 06:16 AM   #90
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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Peititons are OK as a way to make the fans think they're taking action, but I'm pretty sure Marvel doesn't give two hoots about what the fans want. if Feige says he's not coming back, then he's not coming back, exdept maybe in flashbacks or dreams or something.
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Well, this is the same Fiege who also said that there was no Mandarin outside of what we saw in Iron Man 3. Which incidentally, was changed BECAUSE OF FAN REACTION.

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Old 05-11-2015, 06:35 AM   #91
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

I hope to god marvel doesn't bring back any dead characters going further just leave them dead, it takes away from the impact of their death in the first place. there also needs to be death to add to the stakes. then to appease everyone have a complete universe reboot by having everyone revived at the end of infinity war part 2 using the gauntlet, then they could show the rebooted characters and new actors.

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Old 05-11-2015, 07:11 AM   #92
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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A Petition for Pietro

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Look, there is a "Bring back Pietro- Petition" online.

https://www.change.org/p/marvel-cine...f-back-to-life
Lol. I love comment that just says "How dare you Josh Whedon". After a cult-hit TV show and two huge Hollywood blockbusters under his belt, people still think his name is Josh.

The people signing this unironically, though...when you look at some of the other petitions on change.org, like the one about stopping child marriages, or the one trying rescind a ban on feeding the homeless, it just seems really petty. I get that people are upset about it, but first world problems, you know?

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Old 05-11-2015, 08:05 AM   #93
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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I hope to god marvel doesn't bring back any dead characters going further just leave them dead, it takes away from the impact of their death in the first place. there also needs to be death to add to the stakes. then to appease everyone have a complete universe reboot by having everyone revived at the end of infinity war part 2 using the gauntlet, then they could show the rebooted characters and new actors.
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Here's the thing... I didn't feel any impact when he died and infact the other Avengers barely even cared. Felt like how Cyclops was killed without care or setup.

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Old 05-11-2015, 08:19 AM   #94
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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Peititons are OK as a way to make the fans think they're taking action, but I'm pretty sure Marvel doesn't give two hoots about what the fans want. if Feige says he's not coming back, then he's not coming back, exdept maybe in flashbacks or dreams or something.
I would like to think that you are wrong and that Marvel do care what fans think if they are making constructive comments. They were criticised for Hawkeye in Avengers and they tackled this in AoU.

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QS death is only one problem fans have raised and hopefully they find an innovative way to do justice for this character in the future without using a fake death story.


I hope Marvel do tackle some of the issues that genuine fans had problems with in AoU. Including stories that fans don't appreciate will only result in lower box office revenue, merchandise sales etc. so it's in Marvels interest.

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Old 05-11-2015, 09:14 AM   #95
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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Here's the thing... I didn't feel any impact when he died and infact the other Avengers barely even cared. Felt like how Cyclops was killed without care or setup.
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I agree. They didn't even show SW showing remorse afterward at the death of her brother, merely her outburst when she felt his death when it happened. QS's death seems more like an afterthought than a demonstration of the horrors of war.

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Old 05-11-2015, 10:09 AM   #96
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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The way I saw it, Quicksilver just pushed Hawkeye and the kid out of the way. In doing so, he was right in the midst of the bullets as they were probably already reaching Hawkeye and the kid. He can outrun a bullet, maybe, but not when it's an inch or less from his skin when he gets in front of it. He has been hit by a bullet before–when the cop shot him. He's not so fast as to be completely untouchable. And you can tell by the look on his face before he runs forward that he knows if he does this, he won't be surviving it. I didn't have a problem with it. Now, if he'd been shown before to be able to run through a stream of machine gun bullets while dodging them all, that would've been a different story, but that's not what was shown.
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Yeah, the whole showing him getting shot thing seemed to be solely to show that he could be hit by a bullet. Although I don't mind at all - his reaction was adorable.


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I agree. They didn't even show SW showing remorse afterward at the death of her brother, merely her outburst when she felt his death when it happened. QS's death seems more like an afterthought than a demonstration of the horrors of war.
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I think they did show enough of SW's reaction. She clearly was overwhelmed in the moment it happened and afterwards went off to find Ultron and rip his heart out. He' a mechanical being and yet she was willing to die along with her brother to cause Ultron pain. To me that as enough of a reaction to know how Wanda felt.

It's the rest of the Avengers lack of commenting that got me, although I suppose the only one who would have been really effected was Hawkeye.

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Old 05-11-2015, 10:56 AM   #97
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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Yeah, the whole showing him getting shot thing seemed to be solely to show that he could be hit by a bullet. Although I don't mind at all - his reaction was adorable.

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After we saw how the DOFP QS was able to change the trajectory of the bullets with his hand, the fact that AOU can't even get out of the way of the bullets seemed like a massive level down for me.


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I think they did show enough of SW's reaction. She clearly was overwhelmed in the moment it happened and afterwards went off to find Ultron and rip his heart out. He' a mechanical being and yet she was willing to die along with her brother to cause Ultron pain. To me that as enough of a reaction to know how Wanda felt.

It's the rest of the Avengers lack of commenting that got me, although I suppose the only one who would have been really effected was Hawkeye.
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Yeah, the other Avengers should've paid a tribute to QS for saving Hawkeye and the kid. Even a moment of silent would be sufficient.

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Old 05-11-2015, 11:09 AM   #98
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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After we saw how the DOFP QS was able to change the trajectory of the bullets with his hand, the fact that AOU can't even get out of the way of the bullets seemed like a massive level down for me.




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Yeah, the other Avengers should've paid a tribute to QS for saving Hawkeye and the kid. Even a moment of silent would be sufficient.
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It really feels like something was cut out.

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Old 05-11-2015, 11:22 AM   #99
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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After we saw how the DOFP QS was able to change the trajectory of the bullets with his hand, the fact that AOU can't even get out of the way of the bullets seemed like a massive level down for me.
See for me
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Though I didn't like him getting killed (and as I've said part of me hopes they'll find a way/reason to bring him back), I didn't mind that he was able to get hit. DOFP's being able to move fast enough that bullets were moving at a snail's pace/almost imperceptibly allowing him to move them, just seemed way too overpowered. IMO, AOU's QS not being *that* fast, helped ground him a bit more in reality, made him a more believable character in my eyes. It made him flawed (and a character should have flaws)


Just my opinion, of course - if it makes sense

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Old 05-11-2015, 12:59 PM   #100
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Default Re: Aaron Johnson is Quicksilver - Part 2

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See for me
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Though I didn't like him getting killed (and as I've said part of me hopes they'll find a way/reason to bring him back), I didn't mind that he was able to get hit. DOFP's being able to move fast enough that bullets were moving at a snail's pace/almost imperceptibly allowing him to move them, just seemed way too overpowered. IMO, AOU's QS not being *that* fast, helped ground him a bit more in reality, made him a more believable character in my eyes. It made him flawed (and a character should have flaws)


Just my opinion, of course - if it makes sense
I agree, and I do like AOU QS more than DOFP QS...
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But I think the disparity between the two QS is too great, and watching AOU QS got all tired and out of breathe while DOFP QS can put on a headphone while touching speeding bullets with his bare hand does rub me the wrong way. I just can't really accept the death of QS because I think it was unnecessary and handled poorly by Whedon. It is also my biggest problem with an otherwise fine movie.

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