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Old 05-26-2016, 03:10 PM   #301
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

If she saw the bigger picture she wouldnt have told Baelish she didnt need his help. I can understand why she eould want the North and only the North to retake winterfell. She doesnt want a Southern lord having any minute claim on winterfell and she knows Baelish might **** her and jon over after the battle is over...but the knights of the vale are a valuable ally and resource.

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Old 05-26-2016, 03:19 PM   #302
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

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If she saw the bigger picture she wouldnt have told Baelish she didnt need his help. I can understand why she eould want the North and only the North to retake winterfell. She doesnt want a Southern lord having any minute claim on winterfell and she knows Baelish might **** her and jon over after the battle is over...but the knights of the vale are a valuable ally and resource.

They are a dangerous fighting force, but under the control of a man who she cannot trust and is trying to keep at arm's length. If she doesn't want Jon to know where Baelish is, having Baelish ride up alongside them with a legion of shiny knights is hardly the most constructive move to make.

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Old 05-26-2016, 03:19 PM   #303
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Regardless, it would be tough for Sansa to explain to Jon why suddenly Petr Baelish is running the Vale and knows so much about their allies without revealing some or all of his role in the atrocities she has experienced.
I dont think she would need to go into detail with most of that nor would he probe for it, and I don't think he would really care who's running the Vale. Officially Robin Arryn is its lord anyway.

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And surely Jon is aware she is married to Ramsay Bolton, that's a pretty big thing not to know, and if he knows she is married, he's gotta know who arranged that. If Jon knows even a little of what Baelish has done, and the man is clearly within riding distance of Castle Black, Jon would drop everything important and pursue him and take his head.
Jon doesn't have that temperament, especially now. Sansa's really had to push him lately. Nor do I think he would hold Baelish accountable for what happened to Sansa the way she does. How was Baelish or anyone outside of the Dreadfort to know that Ramsay was a sadistic psychopath who would even turn on his own wife? And the truth is, Baelish didn't know, otherwise he wouldn't have arranged the match. Not out of any kind of caring for her, but because he would anticipate that such torture would be blamed on him and thus rendering further manipulation impossible. That doesn't serve his ends.

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Sansa wants to see Baelish dead too, but sees the "big picture" and knows she needs both Jon and Baelish working on the same side and on task if she wants to reclaim Winterfell.
She rejected his offer for help.

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Old 05-26-2016, 04:23 PM   #304
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

I think her not telling Jon is more an example of Sansa's character development than any statement on her actually distrusting her brother.

All the (main) Stark kids are going through some kind of major change and loss of identity. Bran wanted to be a successful warrior and traditional kind of physical hero, and instead is becoming the epitome of the squishy wizard; knowledge and magic are his only recourses to impacting the world around him the way he wants to. Arya is literally learning to switch out her face and has become a killer with sociopathic tendencies; and it's rather important that the only sign of her old identity is Needle, a weapon, perhaps showing how even the mild amount of "proper lady" she had in her has been flushed out. Jon has died; he's literally been reborn into a new life with a new perspective in which his original goal in life is now effectively destroyed (and he may have other new identity tropes if a certain spoilery book reader equation is correct.)

Of her siblings, excluding poor, underdeveloped Rickon, Sansa's surface appearance seems to show her as the least changed of all of them. But she might be the one with the most actual changes in her character. She was a young, naive, trusting girl full of ideals and a willingness to see the best on others even when they were expressly trying to dissuade her of that (I'm looking at you, Sandor Clegane.) I wouldn't be surprised if her final form is as an ever-shrewd, highly cynical and cautious politician, with her old fatal flaw being reversed: instead of being far too trusting, to the point where even ruthless people like Cersei will spare her because she's just so harmless, she'll be untrusting, to the point where even she knows it's a major flaw that damages her relationships.

Turner gave Sansa a bit of a flinch when she lied to Jon. It wasn't just a tell to the audience; it may have been the character realizing that even though her own mental faculties want to tell Jon the truth, some part deep down inside won't let her.

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Old 05-26-2016, 05:01 PM   #305
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

I think Sansa is either stupid or naive to believe Baelish's story that her uncle Blackfish has taken Riverrun, after telling him that she's never going to trust him again. And withholding Baelish from Jon is another mistake. I thought Sansa was going to wise up this season, but she just proves that she is still easily manipulated and lacks common sense.

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Old 05-26-2016, 05:08 PM   #306
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

And so Sansa sends Brienne on a mission to her uncle instead of sending a raven which might be "intercepted" (somehow, inexplicably) by Ramsay? Don't Ravens fly straight to their destinations, or do they stop at every city for maesterly kibbles?

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Old 05-26-2016, 05:51 PM   #307
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

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All the (main) Stark kids are going through some kind of major change and loss of identity. Bran wanted to be a successful warrior and traditional kind of physical hero, and instead is becoming the epitome of the squishy wizard; knowledge and magic are his only recourses to impacting the world around him the way he wants to.

Is "squishy wizard" a 3rd edition mage kit for D&D?

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Old 05-27-2016, 09:22 AM   #308
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

I just want to know, is Bran actually ever going to be able to fly (like the original Three-Eyed Raven told him)? Because that would REALLY come in handy right about now.

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Old 05-27-2016, 09:29 AM   #309
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Fist of Khonshu View Post
And so Sansa sends Brienne on a mission to her uncle instead of sending a raven which might be "intercepted" (somehow, inexplicably) by Ramsay? Don't Ravens fly straight to their destinations, or do they stop at every city for maesterly kibbles?
You could have a similar scenario to when Robb and his army were outside the twins in season 3. They were close enough to take down any Ravens being sent from the twins with arrows.

Who know where Ramsey has sent his twenty good men like.

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Old 05-27-2016, 09:31 AM   #310
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

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I just want to know, is Bran actually ever going to be able to fly (like the original Three-Eyed Raven told him)? Because that would REALLY come in handy right about now.
As the new 3ERaven, he does "fly" in a sense. And later, the difficult-to-control dragons may need to be warged by him in order to direct their attacks on the Army of the Dead.

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Old 05-27-2016, 09:38 AM   #311
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

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You could have a similar scenario to when Robb and his army were outside the twins in season 3. They were close enough to take down any Ravens being sent from the twins with arrows.

Who know where Ramsey has sent his twenty good men like.
True! But unless his ninja archers are stationed right outside Castle Back or Riverrun, I don't think they'll be shooting much more than pheasants for dinner!

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Old 05-27-2016, 03:27 PM   #312
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

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True! But unless his ninja archers are stationed right outside Castle Back or Riverrun, I don't think they'll be shooting much more than pheasants for dinner!
true but spies are everywhere and she not knowing the situation in Riverrun should be cautious about such a message being relayed.

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Old 05-27-2016, 03:44 PM   #313
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

So it looks like Bran is going to be one of the most important characters of the whole show/saga.

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Old 05-27-2016, 06:26 PM   #314
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

Bran is the most important.

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Old 05-27-2016, 06:48 PM   #315
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Bran is the most important.
Without knowing what happens in Books 3 onwards, I'm sure it will be a case of some thing(s) he absolutely must do or the whole world loses. But I thought it'd be the same as in that they'd fail without Dany's dragons or if Jon Snow hadn't been resurrected. It's cool if Bran is the key though as I LOVE all this flashback stuff. Gives them a chance to show the awesome history of this place. A few of them are already among my favourite scenes of the whole show.

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Old 05-27-2016, 06:52 PM   #316
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

Reek is more important... well... was... but then...


it happened.

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Old 05-27-2016, 08:42 PM   #317
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

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I just want to know, is Bran actually ever going to be able to fly (like the original Three-Eyed Raven told him)? Because that would REALLY come in handy right about now.
I think he meant fly by way of warging.

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Old 05-27-2016, 11:22 PM   #318
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

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Without knowing what happens in Books 3 onwards, I'm sure it will be a case of some thing(s) he absolutely must do or the whole world loses. But I thought it'd be the same as in that they'd fail without Dany's dragons or if Jon Snow hadn't been resurrected. It's cool if Bran is the key though as I LOVE all this flashback stuff. Gives them a chance to show the awesome history of this place. A few of them are already among my favourite scenes of the whole show.
GRRM talked about how, when he first envisioned the series it was that first Bran chapter that came to him. Outside of the opening prologue of the Rangers getting killed by the White Walkers, Bran was the very first POV chapter that the books featured. With all that...if I had to say who the most important characters were, I think it'd be either Jon or Bran.

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Old 05-28-2016, 07:16 AM   #319
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

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GRRM talked about how, when he first envisioned the series it was that first Bran chapter that came to him. Outside of the opening prologue of the Rangers getting killed by the White Walkers, Bran was the very first POV chapter that the books featured. With all that...if I had to say who the most important characters were, I think it'd be either Jon or Bran.
Good to know. Did you always know he was going to be one of the main guys or even THE main guy? Or when was it that you started thinking that? I didn't and it's only when it's becoming blindingly obvious that I'm realising. I remember reading lots of speculation online when I started watching (after season 3 and before season 4 came out) and the main names I was hearing in those kinds of discussions were Dany, Jon and ...Tyrion!

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Old 05-28-2016, 07:25 AM   #320
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

From the first book, Bran's been the character that had the most vivid supernatural elements. You had the Three Eyed Raven (crow in the books) telling him from the start that he was important and powerful, so yeah it was pretty apparent from the get-go that Bran was one of the leads.

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Old 05-28-2016, 07:27 AM   #321
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

True, I need to rewatch the whole series again. Do you think Tyrion will be as important as people thought back then?

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Old 05-28-2016, 07:36 AM   #322
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

I think so, but his story arc has deviated from the books a tad. It'll probably be somewhat different, but still ultimately end up with Tyrion being one of the main good guys at the end. Though I think part of that is because he's GRRM's favourite character.

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Old 05-28-2016, 03:11 PM   #323
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

Watched this episode a bit late. Actually pretty good.

I am starting to wonder if Littlefinger has the ability to teleport. I mean, other characters have powers, so, it's not impossible. Otherwise that's pretty bad writing.

Still, the Hodor thing made up for it.

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Old 05-28-2016, 03:22 PM   #324
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I think he meant fly by way of warging.
Yeah, but he already could do that if he warned into a bird. He didn't need the Raven's help for that.

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Old 05-28-2016, 03:27 PM   #325
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Default Re: Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

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I think so, but his story arc has deviated from the books a tad. It'll probably be somewhat different, but still ultimately end up with Tyrion being one of the main good guys at the end. Though I think part of that is because he's GRRM's favourite character.
Yes, I remember hearing that in a youtube theory video during his trial. The guy said he can't die because he's GRRM's favourite. Probably best as he's a favourite of many people. I wonder what he'll be doing at the end assuming he makes it there.

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