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Old 12-17-2015, 06:57 PM   #26
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Default Re: "If 'that' didn't happen" (Spoilers)

what if Khal Drogo hadn't died?

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Old 12-17-2015, 07:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: "If 'that' didn't happen" (Spoilers)

Dany would have left for Westeros in season 1 and sitting the throne.

Drogo competed with Ned for my favorite character. goddamn you GRRM.

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Old 12-18-2015, 02:08 AM   #28
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Default Re: "If 'that' didn't happen" (Spoilers)

Word of Dany's dragons would have spread quicker. More khalasars would have started gathering, either to join with Drogo's or to challenge Drogo for the dragons. The powers in Essos would take notice of the mass Dothraki movements and send out spies to gather more information. While the khalasars massed or competed, the powerful in Essos would likely begin playing their own game, albeit a Game of Dragons.

Ultimately, Dany would probably still come into conflict with some of the major Essoi cities. The circumstances would be different from what they currently are, ie the dragons being the source of conflict as opposed to Dany fighting the slave trade.

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Old 12-18-2015, 02:39 AM   #29
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Default Re: "If 'that' didn't happen" (Spoilers)

CC sent me a PM just now... she said "Cory, your version was SO MUCH better."

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Old 12-18-2015, 10:54 AM   #30
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Default Re: "If 'that' didn't happen" (Spoilers)

Take your victories where you can get them.

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Old 12-19-2015, 01:41 PM   #31
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Default Re: "If 'that' didn't happen" (Spoilers)


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Old 12-19-2015, 06:05 PM   #32
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Default Re: "If 'that' didn't happen" (Spoilers)

What if the warlocks of Qarth managed to keep Dany prisoner long enough for her dragons to reach their current size?

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Old 12-19-2015, 06:09 PM   #33
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Default Re: "If 'that' didn't happen" (Spoilers)

the magic would get stronger and stronger as they grew... so jeez.. Essos would look like Elder Scrolls Oblivion lol. I kind of wish they kept the warlocks around more.. i mean that one dude was quite threatening turning himself into 13 clones and slitting throats.

What if Quiathe existed for more than 11 seconds?

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Old 12-19-2015, 07:19 PM   #34
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We might have got a fun trip to Asshai. Tying it into your response to my scenario - magic gets stronger and Quaithe is forced to use a team of shadowbinders to free Danaerys. Afterward she is whisked to Asshai to further train her dragons.

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Old 12-20-2015, 12:58 AM   #35
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Default Re: "If 'that' didn't happen" (Spoilers)

What if Robert hadnt torn apart a kingdom in a jealous butt-hurt rage because his wife ran off with another man?

What if Ned had an ounce of common sense?

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Old 12-20-2015, 01:20 AM   #36
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What if Robert hadnt torn apart a kingdom in a jealous butt-hurt rage because his wife ran off with another man?

What if Ned had an ounce of common sense?
more like... What if Ned had ignored Littlefingers request at seeing Gendry? He would have fled back to Winterfell and had the full force of the North and Baratheons on his side, as Ned didn't give a **** about being a king anywhere.

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Old 12-20-2015, 02:06 AM   #37
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What if Robert hadnt torn apart a kingdom in a jealous butt-hurt rage because his wife ran off with another man?
Aerys would've set off his wildfire caches, and the common folk and other lords would start questioning whether Westeros needed another Targaryen on the throne.

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Old 12-20-2015, 04:12 PM   #38
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Default Re: "If 'that' didn't happen" (Spoilers)

how come yall arent writing AU fanfics? some of these ideas need fleshing out

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Old 12-20-2015, 04:49 PM   #39
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how come yall arent writing AU fanfics? some of these ideas need fleshing out
Busy with my own fantasy SF work. I also respect GRRM's position on fan fiction of his works.

What if Ramsay treated Sansa nice and instead turned his abusive wrath on Myranda?

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Old 12-20-2015, 05:50 PM   #40
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how come yall arent writing AU fanfics? some of these ideas need fleshing out
D&D have given us enough of an alternate universe

Honestly, there are SO many ideas and stories etc, it would be tough to be original at this point. If you are into this stuff check out the world book... it's pretty amazing.

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Old 12-20-2015, 05:54 PM   #41
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Busy with my own fantasy SF work. I also respect GRRM's position on fan fiction of his works.

What if Ramsay treated Sansa nice and instead turned his abusive wrath on Myranda?
I knew something like that would come up ... it's freaking hard to say considering Sansa isn't even supposed to be there.

Show wise... Ramsay wouldn't get nearly as much joy out of it so he probably would have "left her in the tower to starve to death and off her own fingers" like he did Lady Whatsherface.

i don't want to say they botched winterfell, cause some scenes were great with Roose/Ramsay/Reek... but the lack of the 'Ghost of Winterfell' and the feeling of doom in the air changes so much.

As you know, in the books everyone in Winterfell is scared ****less Stannis is about to attack... in the show they are just like yea whatever, hes out there, we'll fight him.

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Old 12-20-2015, 07:40 PM   #42
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Default Re: "If 'that' didn't happen" (Spoilers)

Much as it changed from the book, I still loved the north. Good point about Hornwood being referenced through Myranda. Perhaps Ramsay initially starving her, then sending Reek to tend her at Sansa's behest. Scenes with Reek and Myranda could reveal that Ramsay trained Myranda to be a "good girl", with her wondering why she's being treated so badly. Then Ramsay could take out his rage at having received Tyrion's ex on Myranda. It would give you a form of what Jeyne went through in ADWD.

It did seem that Ramsay's abuse of Sansa came from him working himself up over having received a wife bedded by a dwarf. But yeah, I've divorced myself from that can of worms after I asked people furious with the scene why they were treating Sansa like damaged goods.

What if Sansa tells Bronze Yohn Royce about what she experienced in Winterfell? Remember in season four, he was pretty furious with Little finger lying about Sansa's identity.

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Old 12-21-2015, 03:22 PM   #43
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Default Re: "If 'that' didn't happen" (Spoilers)

What if Hot Pie hadn't made Arya a loaf of bread shaped like a dire wolf???

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Old 12-21-2015, 03:59 PM   #44
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Default Re: "If 'that' didn't happen" (Spoilers)

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Busy with my own fantasy SF work. I also respect GRRM's position on fan fiction of his works.
i wasn't aware he had one? by this post i'm going to assume he's not a fan?

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Old 12-21-2015, 04:10 PM   #45
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What if Sansa hadn't been married to Ramsay in the most contrived plot ever?

Huh. I guess it would have had no effect on how things play out in the end.
What is so contrived about it? I know it didn't happen that way in the book but it is no less contrived than a random friend of Sansa's popping up suddenly years later and being married off to Ramsay as a fake Arya. In fact, I'd argue that latter is far more contrived by its very nature.

Sansa being married off to Ramsay kind of fits perfectly with Littlefinger's plotting. It is brilliant because it furthers two of his goals: (1) it re-establishes Sansa, someone most believed to be dead or on the run, as the rightful heir to Winterfell and the North, which will give him a claim to the North when he eliminates the Boltons and either marries her off to himself or Robert; and (2) it puts the Boltons in direct conflict with the Lannisters. That is Littlefinger's game, he is all about playing every side against the middle. He did it with the Tyrells and the Lannisters. He did it with the Starks and Lannisters and now he is doing it with the Boltons and the Lannisters. He positions himself as the friend of both sides, subtly pushing them into conflict. All the while he continues to amass power right under their nose. When an ultimate winner comes out of the chaos he has created, they will be greatly weakened and crippled. Meanwhile, no one will be expecting him to strike because he has been their "friend."

Marrying off Sansa to Ramsay fits his plan perfectly. Of course, her fleeing complicates it a bit. But he is still in a pretty good position once he finds her.

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Old 12-21-2015, 05:44 PM   #46
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i wasn't aware he had one? by this post i'm going to assume he's not a fan?
he hates it

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Old 12-21-2015, 05:47 PM   #47
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What is so contrived about it? I know it didn't happen that way in the book but it is no less contrived than a random friend of Sansa's popping up suddenly years later and being married off to Ramsay as a fake Arya. In fact, I'd argue that latter is far more contrived by its very nature.

Sansa being married off to Ramsay kind of fits perfectly with Littlefinger's plotting. It is brilliant because it furthers two of his goals: (1) it re-establishes Sansa, someone most believed to be dead or on the run, as the rightful heir to Winterfell and the North, which will give him a claim to the North when he eliminates the Boltons and either marries her off to himself or Robert; and (2) it puts the Boltons in direct conflict with the Lannisters. That is Littlefinger's game, he is all about playing every side against the middle. He did it with the Tyrells and the Lannisters. He did it with the Starks and Lannisters and now he is doing it with the Boltons and the Lannisters. He positions himself as the friend of both sides, subtly pushing them into conflict. All the while he continues to amass power right under their nose. When an ultimate winner comes out of the chaos he has created, they will be greatly weakened and crippled. Meanwhile, no one will be expecting him to strike because he has been their "friend."

Marrying off Sansa to Ramsay fits his plan perfectly. Of course, her fleeing complicates it a bit. But he is still in a pretty good position once he finds her.
most of the complaints, i thought, were more about 'oh here we go again, putting sansa with a monster... more Sad Sansa...' as it has been for the entire series. People were hoping she had crossed that line between damsel in distress and strong female 'hero'.

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Old 12-21-2015, 07:26 PM   #48
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****, what happens if they head to the Night's Watch? Well, I think it is worth noting in the bedding scene that Ramsay didn't turn into a monster until he started working himself up over Sansa having been married to, and possibly bedded by, Tyrion. Fits with him hating the nobility because of his past as a bastard.

Anyway, I think Bronze Yohn is the wildcard there. As I said, he had very little tolerance for Littlefinger back in season four. One word from Sansa and I could see Littlefinger staring down a length of Vale steel. Or several lengths of it.

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Old 12-22-2015, 09:32 AM   #49
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most of the complaints, i thought, were more about 'oh here we go again, putting sansa with a monster... more Sad Sansa...' as it has been for the entire series. People were hoping she had crossed that line between damsel in distress and strong female 'hero'.
But in fairness, that is her role in the book series. Just because she is currently under Littlefinger's care and learning to play the game a bit, doesn't make her a "strong" female. She is still almost entirely reliant on a man to protect her and is more or less his prisoner (through manipulation).

I've heard that complaint before, I am not sure why people seem to constantly expect Sansa to become this badass character. ASOFAI is filled with strong female characters; Cersei, Kat, Arya, Dany, Melissandre, Margarey and her grandmother, Ygritte, Asha, and the list can go on. There are tons of strong women. But Sansa is not one of them, and that is okay. She doesn't have to be. She is weak. She is helpless. That is a traditional Westerosi woman's geneder role and that is her role in the narrative, to be the weak and subservient sex that her culture expect her to be. What happens to her is supposed to be horrible and make the viewer/reader cringe and reflect on the fact that it is not very far off from reality, even a few decades ago. The horrible things that happen to Sansa are meant to show inequity in gender roles in this society and in turn, make us reflect upon our own. Her being victimized by Ramsay was brutal and horrible...but that was the point.

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****, what happens if they head to the Night's Watch? Well, I think it is worth noting in the bedding scene that Ramsay didn't turn into a monster until he started working himself up over Sansa having been married to, and possibly bedded by, Tyrion. Fits with him hating the nobility because of his past as a bastard.

Anyway, I think Bronze Yohn is the wildcard there. As I said, he had very little tolerance for Littlefinger back in season four. One word from Sansa and I could see Littlefinger staring down a length of Vale steel. Or several lengths of it.
NAh, I think Yohn is a nonfactor at this point. I fully expect Littlefinger to "win" the Game of Thrones. Meaning that I expect him to continue to manipulate and scheme and amass power until he is capable of taking the Iron Throne. I then expect him to do just that. And shortly there after, his reign will come crashing down as White Walkers invade Westeros and it is completely unprepared to defend itself due to the chaos Littlefinger has inflicted.

That is the overarching plot, after all. All these silly nobles play their games, while the commoners suffer, all while ignoring the true threat to all humanity north of the wall. Littlefinger epitomizes that more than any other character. He values nothing but himself and his own greed for power. It is thematically fitting that he win, at the expense of the entire realm.

After that, I am sure Jon and Dany will team up and save the realm or something. Although I think the series ending with Littlefinger taking the throne and the realm being destroyed would be a very fitting ending to this series.

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Old 12-22-2015, 01:20 PM   #50
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That's a great response. Nothing there I can or would want to challenge. I actually have used that very same argument about the significance of Sansa's plot in the show (she seems to have it easier here than Jeyne did in the books). I'm sure that kind of stuff is still happening somewhere in the world. Have you read the last Alayne sample chapter, Matt? Its the one that was said to be controversial by Elio and Linda. I didn't see the controversy myself, but in the chapter Sansa is still very much the princess in the tower.

Meryn's prostitute received a similar response. The little one from last season. Here locally we had a big story about an undcover child prostitution ring that had been busted. So yeah, more unpleasant truths for you to think on, if thinking's your game. I don't know why it took them so long to bust the ring, but remember how Jaqen punished Arya for dealing justice to Ser Meryn? Its like Jaqen is representative of a broken quasi spiritual quasi political system punishing someone for exposing its rotten core. More real world things to dwell on that very few seem to pick up on.

Anyway: What if Littlefinger had been captured by the Sparrows when they sacked his brothel?

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