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Old 10-20-2013, 08:20 AM   #51
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He doesn't even beat them to within an inch of their lives either. At least not often. Batman is a Superhero. He fights crime. All this psychological mumbojumbo where he's some broken little rich boy beating the s**t outta criminals cuz he hates them is for the most part, boos**t. Batman has never been a sadist. He'll knock a guy or girl around to subdue them, but rarely more than that. And unlike the movies, he saves his bad guys if they need it. How many times has Joker fallen off a building only for Bats to catch him? Even though the world would be a much better place if he just let that crazy bastard fall? Hate? Maybe for some. Usually tempered by compassion. Cuz Batman's too awesome to let such an emotion be a driving force. At least that's the Batman I know, I don't know what you mofo's been reading.
I see that as a clear signal of hate and scorn against the criminals, or at least a wish of subjugate them, and I can't see that like a positive feeling. if he really doesn't feel any hatred he could be police, like Gordon, but he doesn't want to follow the rules, he wants to terrorize the criminals, and this is a sentiment of violence and sadism, not very much developed, but sentiment anyway... why, if that isn't true, two of his villains are Scarecrown (sadism) and Bane (violence and phisical domination)?

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Old 10-20-2013, 01:37 PM   #52
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^Stop beating a dead horse already. You've been given ample explanation as to how it's possible that Batman might not actually hate his villains. Apparently you've chosen to ignore those points and see the situation how you want to. No problem in that, but why keeping asking why?

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Old 10-20-2013, 02:06 PM   #53
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You talk like if there's a consensus, and that's false, if you read again the posts of Anita18 you'll see I'm not the one who thinks Batman HATES criminals. I agree with her: maybe violence isn't Batman's first resource, but someone who dedicates such a part of his life to chase and ruin criminals (he isn't a cop, he can't arrest them), punching them if necessary, without any reward for it, looks like having a serious problem with the wrath...


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Old 10-20-2013, 02:46 PM   #54
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You talk like if there's a consensus, and that's false, if you read again the posts of Anita18 you'll see I'm not the one who thinks Batman HATES criminals. I agree with her: maybe violence isn't Batman's first resource, but someone who dedicates such a part of his life to chase and ruin criminals (he isn't a cop, he can't arrest them), punching them if necessary, without any reward for it, looks like having a serious problem with the wrath...
I dunno, maybe it's because I'm a woman and I'm more likely to injure myself if I hit something, but I wouldn't choose to hit something unless I REALLY hate it. For the record, I've never hit anything I wasn't supposed to...but God help the object/person that takes me over the edge.

I've never sees anyone (even college dudes) hit anything they weren't supposed to, unless they've reached a certain point of anger or frustration. They certainly wouldn't hit people unless they were attacked first.

That's why I always thought Batman's anger toward criminals was simply part of his character. If he was actually angry at crime, he'd be doing things more underground. Affecting politics, hacking into computer networks, making sure Arkham's security system is up to snuff, stuff like that. Crime never exists in a vacuum. The fact that he chooses to physically go after criminals shows that he has some kind of beef with those people.

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Old 10-20-2013, 05:29 PM   #55
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I dunno, maybe it's because I'm a woman and I'm more likely to injure myself if I hit something, but I wouldn't choose to hit something unless I REALLY hate it. For the record, I've never hit anything I wasn't supposed to...but God help the object/person that takes me over the edge.

I've never sees anyone (even college dudes) hit anything they weren't supposed to, unless they've reached a certain point of anger or frustration. They certainly wouldn't hit people unless they were attacked first.

That's why I always thought Batman's anger toward criminals was simply part of his character. If he was actually angry at crime, he'd be doing things more underground. Affecting politics, hacking into computer networks, making sure Arkham's security system is up to snuff, stuff like that. Crime never exists in a vacuum. The fact that he chooses to physically go after criminals shows that he has some kind of beef with those people.

The only reason he doesn't do all that stuff is cuz it makes for a boring comic book.

The fact that he chooses to physically go after criminals is because 1, it's exciting, and 2. It's kind of a prerequisite of being a superhero. I mean, does, say, Green Arrow hate criminals cuz he shoots arrows at them? Is Mr. Terrific in this same boat? He's just an awesome dude who decided to put on a suit and fight crime. No parents murdered by some dastardly ne'er-do-well. How about Superman? He beats the crap outta fools sometimes as well. Does he hate criminals?

You guys are confusing the basics of simple superherodom, which is beating people up, with some kind of anger at all criminals. If Batman hates criminals cuz he beats them up, then everybody hates criminals cuz they beat them up.

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Old 10-20-2013, 07:29 PM   #56
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The only reason he doesn't do all that stuff is cuz it makes for a boring comic book.

The fact that he chooses to physically go after criminals is because 1, it's exciting, and 2. It's kind of a prerequisite of being a superhero. I mean, does, say, Green Arrow hate criminals cuz he shoots arrows at them? Is Mr. Terrific in this same boat? He's just an awesome dude who decided to put on a suit and fight crime. No parents murdered by some dastardly ne'er-do-well. How about Superman? He beats the crap outta fools sometimes as well. Does he hate criminals?

You guys are confusing the basics of simple superherodom, which is beating people up, with some kind of anger at all criminals. If Batman hates criminals cuz he beats them up, then everybody hates criminals cuz they beat them up.
And why can't that be the case? I don't think anyone likes criminals, or even feels neutral about them. People don't like criminals. That's why we like superhero comics in the first place - to watch good guys prevail over bad guys.

And to be a vigilante means someone actually disliked crime enough to do something about it. Sounds kind of like anger or hate to me.

To beat people up, or shoot arrows at them or whatever, requires that you don't feel much empathy for those particular people. Being angry at them at least implies that you have the capability of feeling empathy toward non-criminals.

Now to be a vigilante (where your anger at crime actually made you do something) or to be a sociopath with a society-friendly code like Dexter...which is the option you want your superheroes to be?

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Old 10-21-2013, 02:15 AM   #57
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You talk like if there's a consensus, and that's false, if you read again the posts of Anita18 you'll see I'm not the one who thinks Batman HATES criminals. I agree with her: maybe violence isn't Batman's first resource, but someone who dedicates such a part of his life to chase and ruin criminals (he isn't a cop, he can't arrest them), punching them if necessary, without any reward for it, looks like having a serious problem with the wrath...
The consensus seems to be that you're not wholly correct. And again, the latter part above in bold doesn't prove hatred. Professional boxers take out their aggression in the ring against an opponent and pummel the crap out of them. Doesn't mean they hate them. Batman beats the dickens outta the Joker time after time and doesn't kill him. Why? If he hated the Joker, he'd probably kill him right? I think it's because Batman has to believe that you can come back from the brink of that kind of madness. He has to believe you can be reformed. He might break someone's nose to make them see that, but that doesn't mean his use of violence (which is warranted) equates to hatred. After all, these villains aren't afraid of the cops... he uses the Batman persona to strike fear. Nowhere in that formula does hatred necessarily enter in. You can theorize and ponder that part of it all you want, but there's isn't proof. And we all know proof is in the pudding. Mmm.... pudding... gloglogloglog...

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Old 10-21-2013, 02:21 AM   #58
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And why can't that be the case? I don't think anyone likes criminals, or even feels neutral about them. People don't like criminals. That's why we like superhero comics in the first place - to watch good guys prevail over bad guys.

And to be a vigilante means someone actually disliked crime enough to do something about it. Sounds kind of like anger or hate to me.

To beat people up, or shoot arrows at them or whatever, requires that you don't feel much empathy for those particular people. Being angry at them at least implies that you have the capability of feeling empathy toward non-criminals.

Now to be a vigilante (where your anger at crime actually made you do something) or to be a sociopath with a society-friendly code like Dexter...which is the option you want your superheroes to be?
The one where people simply protect others cuz they have the capability and cuz it's the right thing to do.

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Old 10-21-2013, 02:27 AM   #59
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Protecting others doesn't mean you HAVE to hit people back.

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Old 10-21-2013, 02:34 AM   #60
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The consensus seems to be that you're not wholly correct. And again, the latter part above in bold doesn't prove hatred. Professional boxers take out their aggression in the ring against an opponent and pummel the crap out of them. Doesn't mean they hate them. Batman beats the dickens outta the Joker time after time and doesn't kill him. Why? If he hated the Joker, he'd probably kill him right? I think it's because Batman has to believe that you can come back from the brink of that kind of madness. He has to believe you can be reformed. He might break someone's nose to make them see that, but that doesn't mean his use of violence (which is warranted) equates to hatred. After all, these villains aren't afraid of the cops... he uses the Batman persona to strike fear. Nowhere in that formula does hatred necessarily enter in. You can theorize and ponder that part of it all you want, but there's isn't proof. And we all know proof is in the pudding. Mmm.... pudding... gloglogloglog...
I don't look too highly upon boxing as an actual sport, but it has an objective, it has rules of engagement, AND the other guy (who is approximately your skill and size) is trying equally hard to hit you too. Most of Batman's foes aren't on equal footing with him, physically. It's not always a fair fight, but he goes into it anyway knowing that.

And Batman not killing may just mean...that he doesn't want to be a killer. I unequivocally hate rapists, abusers, and murderers, but I don't believe in the death penalty. I don't think that's a paradox.

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Old 10-21-2013, 03:49 AM   #61
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The consensus seems to be that you're not wholly correct. And again, the latter part above in bold doesn't prove hatred. Professional boxers take out their aggression in the ring against an opponent and pummel the crap out of them. Doesn't mean they hate them. Batman beats the dickens outta the Joker time after time and doesn't kill him. Why? If he hated the Joker, he'd probably kill him right? I think it's because Batman has to believe that you can come back from the brink of that kind of madness. He has to believe you can be reformed. He might break someone's nose to make them see that, but that doesn't mean his use of violence (which is warranted) equates to hatred. After all, these villains aren't afraid of the cops... he uses the Batman persona to strike fear. Nowhere in that formula does hatred necessarily enter in. You can theorize and ponder that part of it all you want, but there's isn't proof. And we all know proof is in the pudding. Mmm.... pudding... gloglogloglog...
Oh yes, breaking the nose seems a good way to show someone the erroneous of his behaviour. Do you know the doctrine which is based on that principle? The fascism, and it has proved to be a fantastic way to organise society...

And the comparison between Batman and the rest of superheroes isn't valid for two reasons: 1- he doesn't have powers, so he moves in a realistic plane most of his "colleagues" don't; 2- he has a traumatic origin (unlike Green Arrow, for example) which explains his behaviour like part of a serious psychological disorder where anger and hatred play an important part.

For the rest I totally agree with the posts of Anita.


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Old 10-21-2013, 01:10 PM   #62
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And Batman not killing may just mean...that he doesn't want to be a killer. I unequivocally hate rapists, abusers, and murderers, but I don't believe in the death penalty. I don't think that's a paradox.
Honestly? I don't hate anybody. I can say that in truth. I can't carry around hate in my heart... too heavy a burden I think. I feel sorry for murderers. I don't feel sorry for them in the sense that I wouldn't want to see them behind bars, but I do feel sorry for them in the sense that the choices they've made have shattered many lives other than their own. I feel sorry for them that they've wasted their life and committed acts from which there's no turning back. It's a sad state of affairs.

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Oh yes, breaking the nose seems a good way to show someone the erroneous of his behaviour. Do you know the doctrine which is based on that principle? The fascism, and it has proved to be a fantastic way to organise society...
Well now you're just being glib. I'm talking about breaking a nose to get a pain response. I'm guessing most of these villains don't understand remorse or compassion, or either they've swept it under the rug and buried it so deep it would seem they have none, but they understand physical pain. Stepping outside of the law as Batman does, you use the tools available to you. That includes your fists.

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And the comparison between Batman and the rest of superheroes isn't valid for two reasons: 1- he doesn't have powers, so he moves in a realistic plane most of his "colleagues" don't; 2- he has a traumatic origin (unlike Green Arrow, for example) which explains his behaviour like part of a serious psychological disorder where anger and hatred play an important part.

For the rest I totally agree with the posts of Anita.
I wasn't comparing Batman to other superheroes, so not sure where that statement came from. But to say you can't compare him to other heroes is somewhat invalid. It's the heart and his actions that makes him the hero, not the powers (or lack thereof). And again, you keep mentioning hatred being a part of his disorder. You have yet to prove that.

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Old 10-21-2013, 01:59 PM   #63
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Honestly? I don't hate anybody. I can say that in truth. I can't carry around hate in my heart... too heavy a burden I think. I feel sorry for murderers. I don't feel sorry for them in the sense that I wouldn't want to see them behind bars, but I do feel sorry for them in the sense that the choices they've made have shattered many lives other than their own. I feel sorry for them that they've wasted their life and committed acts from which there's no turning back. It's a sad state of affairs.
To be fair, I do feel for people who find themselves in a culture of violence and realize, too late, that there are other options to them. We have an organization here in LA, Homeboy Industries, that hires former felons (who are often unhireable, and gang members to boot) and turns them into functional members of society. The priest who runs it should be canonized. He's a saint, as far as I'm concerned. I love that organization, I've stopped by their stores and booths, and I want to give everyone there a high five and a hug.

I commend people who turn their lives around, and I believe in rehabilitation, but they have to decide to turn their lives around FIRST, before I feel true empathy for them. I'm certainly not going to feel bad for them when they're still taking advantage of people.

Again, this might go back to me being a petite woman. All my life, I've been taught to fear being kidnapped, raped, and yes, murdered. My parents are paranoid, but I think every woman has some of this fear in them. I'm not going to feel sorry for someone who looks at someone like me and thinks how easy it would be to throw me into a car trunk and have his way with me. Hell no.

That's why I love Batman. Batman is a big scary guy who lurks in the dark himself...but he's on our side. He's a good guy, and beats up the people I'm afraid of.

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I wasn't comparing Batman to other superheroes, so not sure where that statement came from. But to say you can't compare him to other heroes is somewhat invalid. It's the heart and his actions that makes him the hero, not the powers (or lack thereof). And again, you keep mentioning hatred being a part of his disorder. You have yet to prove that.
He's a hero because he works for good. He would be controversial in real life, because his methods are controversial, but he's a good guy at the heart of it.

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Old 10-23-2013, 06:47 AM   #64
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Batman is fighting criminals and villains. Yet, he's only a man behind the mask - and that man likes women.

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Old 11-09-2013, 07:45 AM   #65
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Bwahaha, i really shouldnt laugh!

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