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Old 07-31-2017, 12:29 PM   #76
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

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People clearly forgot Herrera's exemplary hitjob on Hazard in the win against Chelsea. I'm fairly sure based on how often we saw them Pogba and Herrera are Jose's ideal players, with Matic serving as a replacement for Carrick being the most likely outcome. Pogba and Herrera are both quick for midfielders - although I don't understand the sudden obsession with pacey midfielders when Matic enters the fray.
Thats a fair point, not like Kante, Makelele, Wanyama, Dier, Fernandinho or the like are super quick but dont see them getting pulled up on it. Signing a DM is never a "sexy" signing though, nobodys going to get super hyped over it but is he can come in and do a job, all these players have good engines in them so hopefully Matic can at least bring that. He's essentially there to do the dirty work so our decent players have more freedom to do so.

Ah well Jose seems like to him so lets just hope he can make it work better than last year, Im not expecting too much from this season but maybe things will work out better than expected.

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Old 07-31-2017, 12:36 PM   #77
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

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Thats a fair point, not like Kante, Makelele, Wanyama, Dier, Fernandinho or the like are super quick but dont see them getting pulled up on it. Signing a DM is never a "sexy" signing though, nobodys going to get super hyped over it but is he can come in and do a job, all these players have good engines in them so hopefully Matic can at least bring that. He's essentially there to do the dirty work so our decent players have more freedom to do so.

Ah well Jose seems like to him so lets just hope he can make it work better than last year, Im not expecting too much from this season but maybe things will work out better than expected.
You've hit the nail on the head, and to be honest this is why I actually think people are busy laying into Matic - he's not the Alexis Sanchez/Griezmann/Kroos/Neymar blockbuster signing people wanted. Lukaku is divisive so he hasn't really caused the fan base to rejoice, either, and because we're not going to get a "sexy" Pogba level signing this window some fans seem to be throwing their toys of their cot. The same fans seem to forget our title winning teams contained players like Wes Brown, O'Shea, Park Ji-Sung, Silvestre, etc.

I mean if needing pace as a DM was so important I'm confused as to how Barcelona won all those trebles and CLs with Sergio Busquets at that position

If Mourinho wanted to go and buy a player that was ineffective for him at Chelsea I'd complain, but Matic did precisely what's written in his job description during both title wins for Chelsea, and like you said it frees up players like Herrera to push up and participate in attack, which is highly relevant. Herrera has a good shot and has brilliant passing in the final third.

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Old 07-31-2017, 01:10 PM   #78
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

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Yeah, definitely, Carrick is great but he needs to be used sparingly. Suddenly with United getting him the collective internet is lambasting Matic when they said he was an inspired signing on his return to Chelsea, doing his job perfectly well and carrying them to a PL victory. I don't know why his speed is of any concern now, when a combination of him and the even less mercurial Fabregas won Chelsea a PL We seem to just be absolutely nuts deep in hyperbole right now.

For what it's worth, IMO a midfield three of Matic, Herrera, and Pogba is the best combination of midfielders in the league based on what each club has right now.
Yeah I certainly don't think that will be your weak point.

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Old 07-31-2017, 01:17 PM   #79
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

Three things:

1. When Matic was seen as a good signing for Chelsea he played well and was a much better player three seasons ago than he is now.

2. Chelsea fans have remarked that he lost a lot of his competetiveness in midfield after he suffered that bad tackle from Barnes.


3. Matic's speed isn't the issue, it's the fact he's practically a statue these days, we've seen Carrick getting run past with ease and struggling with any kind of press, and we have just bought an immobile lump with the same defects as a 36 year old who was twice the player on the ball he'll ever be.

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Old 07-31-2017, 01:21 PM   #80
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

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Three things:

1. When Matic was seen as a good signing for Chelsea he played well and was a much better player three seasons ago than he is now.

2. Chelsea fans have remarked that he lost a lot of his competetiveness in midfield after he suffered that bad tackle from Barnes.


3. Matic's speed isn't the issue, it's the fact he's practically a statue these days, we've seen Carrick getting run past with ease and struggling with any kind of press, and we have just bought an immobile lump with the same defects as a 36 year old who was twice the player on the ball he'll ever be.
Would you say Matic is a worse proposition than Carrick would have been for the upcoming season, given Carrick's age? I mean as in if you would have got him for a free for eg. The money spent is what puts me off what would otherwise be reasonable squad players like Matic, Perisic, Fellaini (over £110m for just those 3 guys!).

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Old 07-31-2017, 01:36 PM   #81
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

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Three things:

1. When Matic was seen as a good signing for Chelsea he played well and was a much better player three seasons ago than he is now.

2. Chelsea fans have remarked that he lost a lot of his competetiveness in midfield after he suffered that bad tackle from Barnes.


3. Matic's speed isn't the issue, it's the fact he's practically a statue these days, we've seen Carrick getting run past with ease and struggling with any kind of press, and we have just bought an immobile lump with the same defects as a 36 year old who was twice the player on the ball he'll ever be.
1. I'd say he was still good last season when he was played, when he was played.

2. Seems odd to draw a correlation between those two. Maybe he seems less competitive because the season after their title win the entire team crashed and burned and last season it was clear Conte iced him out of the side?

3. You're grossly exaggerating what's wrong in the team lately, and also exaggerating Carrick's ability on the ball - he's been extremely consistent but he isn't Zidane. Carrick and Matic have an equal capacity to intercept play, Matic is a better tackler and we don't need Carrick's passing range with Herrera and Pogba ahead. Matic is walking into a completely different midfield from what's at Chelsea, Herrera and Pogba have more than enough athleticism to cover any deficit in that regard. He's not who I would've got, but it's inaccurate to insinuate he's going to add nothing to the team.

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Old 07-31-2017, 02:47 PM   #82
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

I'm pretty sure Matic started most of Chelsea's games last season alongside Kante, as Fabregas was used sparingly by Conte, so to claim that his contribution to their title win was limited or that he's regressed since re-signing for them is pretty foolhardy.

As others have said, a DM signing is not necessarily one which excites the masses, but Matic has experience in two title-winning Mourinho sides and is the sort of defensive screen in midfield which allows guys like Pogba to do their thing. Not to mention he's never been a player who's relied on his pace. Our midfield is finally looking balanced after years in the wilderness dating back to Saint Fergie's final years, when for some reason he refused to bloody invest in it.

Fabinho would've been better value for money, especially long-term and due to his versatility, but while Matic is no spring-chicken, it's pretty clear by the signings Jose's made this summer that he's looking to win the Prem this season. Having said that, I'll still be pretty pissed if we dump 50mil quid on Perisic.

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Old 07-31-2017, 03:43 PM   #83
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

50 million for Perisic would be daylight ****ing robbery, but considering his proclivity for crossing and Lukaku's ability in the air I think it would make sense from an on pitch perspective. Two youngsters and two experienced players feels like a balanced window, but I'd really like for the window to have some kind of surprise for us, I doubt we'll do anything crazy like swoop in for Alexis Sanchez (although it would be ****ing sweet if we did) but maybe we'll still hit that fourth signing and it'll be an exciting one.

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Old 07-31-2017, 04:31 PM   #84
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

One benefit of the craziness of the prices in this transfer window is that the Pogba transfer is looking like money very well spent now. If you'd waited till this summer to go for him what would the figure have been?

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Old 07-31-2017, 04:40 PM   #85
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Yeah I certainly don't think that will be your weak point.
Probably not, which is a nice change considering our midfield was extremely flimsy for the period between Fergie's departure and Jose's arrival.

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One benefit of the craziness of the prices in this transfer window is that the Pogba transfer is looking like money very well spent now. If you'd waited till this summer to go for him what would the figure have been?
Hah, very true - at the rate this window is going Pogba would've likely been £120m+ quite easily. I'm actually hoping a large Mbappe/Neymar transfer doesn't happen just so we can have a window where the record isn't insanely bumped up.

On the Newcastle front you guys recently signed Mikel Merino, a midfielder from Borussia Dortmund. I don't know anything about him but it's at least a solid club to be getting players from, and I recall they got former Liverpool full back Javier Manquillo a while back as well. Seems like Rafa is getting some decent European pedigree in, hopefully they can shine.

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Old 07-31-2017, 05:45 PM   #86
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

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Hah, very true - at the rate this window is going Pogba would've likely been £120m+ quite easily. I'm actually hoping a large Mbappe/Neymar transfer doesn't happen just so we can have a window where the record isn't insanely bumped up.

On the Newcastle front you guys recently signed Mikel Merino, a midfielder from Borussia Dortmund. I don't know anything about him but it's at least a solid club to be getting players from, and I recall they got former Liverpool full back Javier Manquillo a while back as well. Seems like Rafa is getting some decent European pedigree in, hopefully they can shine.
Wasn't there quite a few seasons where the transfer record didn't go up? Bale and Pogba were recent records, and before that there was Ronaldo a while back but I can't remember the record being broken much apart from that. Partly because the best players in the world weren't moving that much, and when they did move they were a bit older and not worth quite as much.

Thanks for those! I'm not really hearing about them myself elsewhere, this is the best place to find out! I don't know anything about any of the guys we've bought so will have to judge once they all play together. I hope Rafa is being allowed to get whoever he wants (that the club can afford). This is the first time in a long time with a top manager at the helm that I want the club to take some big risks.

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Old 07-31-2017, 06:17 PM   #87
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

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Wasn't there quite a few seasons where the transfer record didn't go up? Bale and Pogba were recent records, and before that there was Ronaldo a while back but I can't remember the record being broken much apart from that. Partly because the best players in the world weren't moving that much, and when they did move they were a bit older and not worth quite as much.

Thanks for those! I'm not really hearing about them myself elsewhere, this is the best place to find out! I don't know anything about any of the guys we've bought so will have to judge once they all play together. I hope Rafa is being allowed to get whoever he wants (that the club can afford). This is the first time in a long time with a top manager at the helm that I want the club to take some big risks.
Yeah, I think between the Ronaldo and Bale transfer there were some more quiet years. Nowadays it feels like high prices are always on the horizon, Neymar, Higuain, and Suarez all went for high fees somewhat recently, but didn't break the record. Then Pogba happened last season, now people are talking about Mbappe hitting over £100m, perhaps Neymar doing damn near double that, it really feels like an arms race at the moment. It's astounding to think a guy like Vardy who cost pennies compared to what we're discussing has a PL winners medal but Chelsea and United are dropping £60-£75m on strikers.

No problem man Manquillo I remember looked decent for the few games he got at Liverpool, but he just didn't really settle in. I'd say you're right about taking risks, Rafa has been there for a while now and has become familiar with the squad. He's a sussed manager, if they were smart they'd back him 100% now so he can set the club up to survive in the PL long term. Hopefully not a penny wise, pound foolish type scenario where they damage long term prospects to save a few quid in transfers. I'm intrigued to see how they line up and play in a couple weeks.

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Old 07-31-2017, 06:52 PM   #88
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

Even without the record actually being broken it feels like it has to all intents and purposes effectively been broken as some of the prices quoted are so far above the old record and even the prices for players who should be nowhere near a world transfer record are getting very close. We're definitely living in different times all of a sudden.

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Old 07-31-2017, 07:21 PM   #89
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

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1. I'd say he was still good last season when he was played, when he was played.

2. Seems odd to draw a correlation between those two. Maybe he seems less competitive because the season after their title win the entire team crashed and burned and last season it was clear Conte iced him out of the side?

3. You're grossly exaggerating what's wrong in the team lately, and also exaggerating Carrick's ability on the ball - he's been extremely consistent but he isn't Zidane. Carrick and Matic have an equal capacity to intercept play, Matic is a better tackler and we don't need Carrick's passing range with Herrera and Pogba ahead. Matic is walking into a completely different midfield from what's at Chelsea, Herrera and Pogba have more than enough athleticism to cover any deficit in that regard. He's not who I would've got, but it's inaccurate to insinuate he's going to add nothing to the team.
1. As I said to B the other night, everyone is entitled to their opinion so I'll leave this one at that.

2. It's not that, they have talked about him pulling out of tackles and avoiding physical situations wherever possible since he got hurt.

3. I haven't exaggerated anything IMO, if this team scrapes 4th it will be lucky, that is my view. As for Carrick, I never said he was Zidane but there is a difference in the role and I said in that deeper role he's twice the player Matic is on the ball, because he is, I also don't see Pogba as a playmaker, his best football came at Juve when Pirlo controlled games and fed Pogba at the right time for him to make something happen in the final 3rd, and I honestly don't see Herrera as great on the ball, he's the engine guy. I'll stick by my view that he adds nothing, he's Carrick with a poorer passing game and all the same issues Carrick has had as he's gotten older with poor mobility, all this setting Pogba free stuff doesn't hold water when your DM can't move laterally.

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I'm pretty sure Matic started most of Chelsea's games last season alongside Kante, as Fabregas was used sparingly by Conte, so to claim that his contribution to their title win was limited or that he's regressed since re-signing for them is pretty foolhardy.
I disagree and I think you will find most Chelsea fans do to, it's why the club have sold him to us, Conte didn't really want him but had to make do with him last season as Fabregas has no defensive acumen at all. The first chance they had to **** him off they did it, and to a fellow PL team as well, that tells you how vital they think he is.

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As others have said, a DM signing is not necessarily one which excites the masses, but Matic has experience in two title-winning Mourinho sides and is the sort of defensive screen in midfield which allows guys like Pogba to do their thing. Not to mention he's never been a player who's relied on his pace. Our midfield is finally looking balanced after years in the wilderness dating back to Saint Fergie's final years, when for some reason he refused to bloody invest in it.
He only won one title with Mourinho and was the first guy Mourinho threw under the bus when the second season went tits up. It also has nothing to do with exciting, I never used that term to describe what was required in that role, I talked about agility and athleticism, the bonus being if they can distribute well from the back, Matic doesn't cover any of these boxes, he turns like an oild tanker, lacks agression and athleticism and suffers when pressed due to how lumbering he is. The only silver lining is the contract is a 3 year deal, so hopefully we'll move him into the Carrick role as a squad guy next season and get in someone better, hopefully selected by the new manager.

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Old 07-31-2017, 11:48 PM   #90
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

Content enough with the signing of Matic to be honest, £35m + £5m add ons, in this current market seems like a fair price. He's not a signing that will get pulses rising & fans overjoyed, but signing a CDM is never a glamour signing & as we've proved last season we did need a competent CDM. We only had Felliani, enough said & hopefully Matic's arrival signals the end of his spell with the club, & Carrick who IMO should have retired this summer as not only is it evident the little mobility he did have has abandoned him completely, but his passing range & ability on the ball was nowhere near effective enough any longer. I'd have personally rather seen Carrick retire or be sold/moved on before Schweinsteiger/Schneiderlin but that's another story, he's a club legend but there comes a time for everyone to move on.

I don't think there is an argument to be had that Matic isn't better than what we currently have, nor do I think there is an argument to be had that he won't improve us because on paper he really should improve us significantly given how much more competent he is in the role. Pogba & Herrera both have that little bit more security to have more free reign & be able to effect games more positively. I'd like to see the role competed for by Matic & Blind this season.

The only other CDM we'd been connected with was Fabinho, as were PSG, Monaco insisted he wouldn't be sold as of about a week or so ago. Both he & Matic are extremely different types of players, but even if we'd signed him instead would people actually be more excited about signing him than Matic? At the end of the day both of them are defensive midfielders & engine room signings, which are never pretty or exciting IMO.


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Old 08-01-2017, 02:22 AM   #91
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

I get excited about those kinds of signings when they're top guys. Same as for any defenders or the goalkeeper if they are world class. I'd take a Roy Keane and Vieira in their prime right now for the Toon.

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Old 08-01-2017, 02:40 PM   #92
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

Anyone know if Lucas Perez at Arsenal is any good. Heard we might be in for him.

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Old 08-01-2017, 03:26 PM   #93
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He's a technical poacher with solid mobility and finish. I'd be highly impressed and enthusiastic for you guys if you landed him, I'd say he's like a better and more refined Ayoze Perez.

Edit: In his last season in La Liga he got 17 goals and 8 assists in 35 league games for Deportivo, so quite a solid return. The price quoted seems to be around £15m which would be an absolute bargain.


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Old 08-01-2017, 03:32 PM   #94
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1. As I said to B the other night, everyone is entitled to their opinion so I'll leave this one at that.

2. It's not that, they have talked about him pulling out of tackles and avoiding physical situations wherever possible since he got hurt.

3. I haven't exaggerated anything IMO, if this team scrapes 4th it will be lucky, that is my view. As for Carrick, I never said he was Zidane but there is a difference in the role and I said in that deeper role he's twice the player Matic is on the ball, because he is, I also don't see Pogba as a playmaker, his best football came at Juve when Pirlo controlled games and fed Pogba at the right time for him to make something happen in the final 3rd, and I honestly don't see Herrera as great on the ball, he's the engine guy. I'll stick by my view that he adds nothing, he's Carrick with a poorer passing game and all the same issues Carrick has had as he's gotten older with poor mobility, all this setting Pogba free stuff doesn't hold water when your DM can't move laterally.
1. Sure.

2. We'll have to see if that continues with United, if it does you'll have a point, if it doesn't then he'll contribute decently.

3. Pirlo didn't do as much playmaking with Pogba ahead of him, and Matic won't need to be the playmaker - he just needs to hand the ball off to Herrera and Pogba the way Pirlo did. Pirlo played a few hollywood balls and played it into the striker's feet, that's about it. I'm not sure which player you were watching but Herrera was basically our best player last season and was fantastic on the ball, he's got very technical and sussed passing, his through balls for Mkhitaryan's goal against Spurs and Rashford's against Chelsea were fantastic. He's about as complete a midfielder as we're likely to see, and decent carrying the ball too. In most people's books a midfield three of Matic, Pogba and Herrera is quite easily the best set in the league.

Matic is a good runner and while he doesn't have pace (which is irrelevant) he covers a lot of ground and closes spaces smartly. That's all he needs to do, just get the ball back and recycle it to Herrera or Pogba who are both more than capable of being the creative midfield influences, and are both easily title winning #8s with a halfway decent #6 behind them.

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Old 08-01-2017, 06:25 PM   #95
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1. Sure.

2. We'll have to see if that continues with United, if it does you'll have a point, if it doesn't then he'll contribute decently.

3. Pirlo didn't do as much playmaking with Pogba ahead of him, and Matic won't need to be the playmaker - he just needs to hand the ball off to Herrera and Pogba the way Pirlo did. Pirlo played a few hollywood balls and played it into the striker's feet, that's about it. I'm not sure which player you were watching but Herrera was basically our best player last season and was fantastic on the ball, he's got very technical and sussed passing, his through balls for Mkhitaryan's goal against Spurs and Rashford's against Chelsea were fantastic. He's about as complete a midfielder as we're likely to see, and decent carrying the ball too. In most people's books a midfield three of Matic, Pogba and Herrera is quite easily the best set in the league.

Matic is a good runner and while he doesn't have pace (which is irrelevant) he covers a lot of ground and closes spaces smartly. That's all he needs to do, just get the ball back and recycle it to Herrera or Pogba who are both more than capable of being the creative midfield influences, and are both easily title winning #8s with a halfway decent #6 behind them.
Your Pirlo assessment is bizarre but beyond that I just don't care enough to argue any further, my interest in the season is zero, Mourinho has managed to outdo Moyes and LvG in killing any hope, so I'll tap out and you can be right.

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Old 08-01-2017, 06:28 PM   #96
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

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Originally Posted by DeadPresident View Post
He's a technical poacher with solid mobility and finish. I'd be highly impressed and enthusiastic for you guys if you landed him, I'd say he's like a better and more refined Ayoze Perez.

Edit: In his last season in La Liga he got 17 goals and 8 assists in 35 league games for Deportivo, so quite a solid return. The price quoted seems to be around £15m which would be an absolute bargain.
Thanks for that! Sounding very optimistic. Gonna be seriously exciting seeing how all these new guys (that I don't know) settle in together. And yes nice that we're keeping our transfer fees sensible so far.

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Old 08-02-2017, 05:39 AM   #97
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40800757
The Neymar stuff gathering momentum.

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Old 08-02-2017, 08:03 AM   #98
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

La Liga claim they will block Neymar's transfer from Barcelona to PSG as they accuse French giants of 'financial doping'

Amusing, apparently La Liga & potentially UEFA will try to block the move of Neymar to PSG due to how PSG have gained the funds to be able to buy out Neymar's release clause.

Very amusing indeed. I wonder why they've never tried to block any other of PSG or Manchester City's signings from their league. They've both came into money in exactly the same way, so what's different about this transfer & the rest if the money is coming from somewhere non-football related.. ?

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Old 08-02-2017, 08:15 AM   #99
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

PSG to pay Barcelona 198m Pounds/222m Euros.

Neymar will earn reported 40m a year, after taxes or roughly 650,000 P/W.

https://www.theguardian.com/football...ed-sign-650000

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Old 08-02-2017, 08:49 AM   #100
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - -

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La Liga claim they will block Neymar's transfer from Barcelona to PSG as they accuse French giants of 'financial doping'

Amusing, apparently La Liga & potentially UEFA will try to block the move of Neymar to PSG due to how PSG have gained the funds to be able to buy out Neymar's release clause.

Very amusing indeed. I wonder why they've never tried to block any other of PSG or Manchester City's signings from their league. They've both came into money in exactly the same way, so what's different about this transfer & the rest if the money is coming from somewhere non-football related.. ?
The amount quoted for Neymar is about triple or more the amount for PSG or City's highest transfer fee so it makes sense. The other relevant detail is that there seems to be a claim that Barcelona expect the entire release clause to be paid in a single amount, that's unprecedented. It's unusual for a club of PSG's stature to have £200m unincumbered lying around without heavy assistance from the Qataris.

It's very telling that the Spanish FA are doing this but not UEFA, who are actually responsible for making sure that FFP is adhered to - I guarantee you if this was a club not linked to some or other royalty we'd see UEFA send their suits to investigate ASAP. It's even more sketchy in light of Platini's dealings with Qatar's royal family.

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