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Old 05-16-2017, 04:47 PM   #276
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Originally Posted by zenith16 View Post
Ben grim the thing is Jewish also there's Xavier's son Legion aka David Haller right from his mother in the books. there's magneto and his kids when you think about despite the lame retcon oh man there's list. like the mutant hero super Sabra which she's straight from Israel .
Sabra is a marginal character that doesn't do anything. David Haller hasn't been relevant since the 1990s when he started Age of Apocalypse.

Magneto's kids are no longer his kids.

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Old 05-17-2017, 10:47 AM   #277
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Sabra is a marginal character that doesn't do anything. David Haller hasn't been relevant since the 1990s when he started Age of Apocalypse.

Magneto's kids are no longer his kids.

which is why I said before the "lame retcon "with magnetos kid's and people see I said that in the quote you put up.

you just said axaiver son doen't matterand yet there's tv show about him and it's doing fine and he still showing up inthe Xbooks.

lol going with that thinking same could be said about Ben grim now too especially with the way the keep screwing up with the movies. To alot people they matter. and legion wouldn't have show so I don't know if alot people would agree.


there's also Justice of the New warriors and "Avengers " who's been their leader and fire star's finance' who's both a mutant and Jewish and the character that took his old super hero code name of marvel boy is that too and Doc samson the hulks old psycologist that was still around during the first civil war.


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Old 05-17-2017, 11:18 AM   #278
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Ben grim the thing is Jewish also there's Xavier's son Legion aka David Haller right from his mother in the books. there's magneto and his kids when you think about despite the lame retcon oh man there's list. like the mutant hero super Sabra which she's straight from Israel .
Making them his kids was a retcon too.

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Old 05-17-2017, 11:30 AM   #279
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Making them his kids was a retcon too.
the early day of their creation and they were adopted kids it more of revelation back then. and the high evolutionary and his people , they did say magda magento's wife came through there in the high evolutionary's city and she was pregnant.

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Old 05-17-2017, 12:15 PM   #280
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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which is why I said before the "lame retcon "with magnetos kid's and people see I said that in the quote you put up.

you just said axaiver son doen't matterand yet there's tv show about him and it's doing fine and he still showing up inthe Xbooks.

lol going with that thinking same could be said about Ben grim now too especially with the way the keep screwing up with the movies. To alot people they matter. and legion wouldn't have show so I don't know if alot people would agree.


there's also Justice of the New warriors and "Avengers " who's been their leader and fire star's finance' who's both a mutant and Jewish and the character that took his old super hero code name of marvel boy is that too and Doc samson the hulks old psycologist that was still around during the first civil war.
They are still highly marginalized and not really featured in their own stories.

Is Haller actually even Jewish in the Legion TV series?

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Old 05-17-2017, 12:30 PM   #281
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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They are still highly marginalized and not really featured in their own stories.

Is Haller actually even Jewish in the Legion TV series?
he is and it's like one for few things they will still stick to and may go further in to a degree(not expecting anything too heavy), since they like doing their own things to make the character their own .

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Old 05-17-2017, 06:17 PM   #282
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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The idea that liberals are killing Marvel is sensationalistic BS. The biggest damage that Marvel is doing to itself is the constant non-stop events, constant re-numbering, and the overly incestuous universe. I'm even sympathetic to the criticism towards legacy characters replacing the "old guard". But I do not think it is because those legacy characters are more diverse than the characters they replaced or because they champion some overt liberal beliefs. If you're problem with Marvel is, in fact, the diversity and the characters' beliefs, then you're problem isn't with Marvel. The problem is you are some special combo of racist/misogynist. Considering 50% of comic readers are now women, plus the percentage of non-white readers, that means white males are the minority of comic book readers. So I do not believe there being "too much diversity" is what is killing Marvel when I would bet a majority of readers would welcome even greater diversity. I do not believe racism and misogyny is rampant enough in comic readers that their racist and misogynist beliefs are what is killing Marvel. But naturally, with the internet being the dumpster fire it tends to be, these scandalous criticisms are sensationalized to go viral making them appear to be way more problematic than they really are while refusing to delve beyond the surface optics.

Hell, you want an industry problem that is far more responsible for falling comic sales than "liberal diversity"? Unlike distributors in other countries, the vast majority of comics distributed to retailers in America are non-returnable. Meaning, all the comics your LCS buys from the distributor, they are stuck with whether they sell them or not. That means, your shop is going to buy less comics for their shelves; they are going to take less of a risk on new characters, titles, and creators; which means you are less exposed to a wider variety of comics; which overall guarantees less comics sold. This is one of the single biggest problems in the industry overall. This is ignoring the fact that comic shop owners need to decide what books they purchase based on a tiny thumbnail of a cover photo in a 500 page catalogue full of tiny thumbnail photos and a two sentence description, 3 months before the book is released. And sometimes, even having that much info to go on is generous. And on top of all that, is the aforementioned issues at Marvel with their non-stop events and their associated crossovers and spin-offs, their constant renumbering, and their incestuous universe which is far too intimidating for both new and seasoned readers. Oh, and $3.99 a book? $4.99 for #1's? Groan.

But, boo hoo, a cosmic cube turned Cap to Hydra and Nick Spencer destroyed America.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone here agrees with you. The one-sided liberal points of view have always been mentioned as being ONE of the reasons why people are abandoning Marvel. And this thread has already proven that to be true. And Spencer just sucks as a human being in general. Kinda like Joss Whedon


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Old 05-19-2017, 12:35 AM   #283
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

I'm not interested in who agrees with me, nor do I believe anything I said even qualifies as being "liberal". I'm more interested in bringing a responsible perspective to ridiculously hyperbolic statements such as "liberal writers are killing marvel". It's just so far from being true, despite the small minority who have used the internet to make loud noises about it. Hell, secret empire is held up as the icon of marvels misdirected liberal agenda which is being blamed for killing them, yet secret empire is sitting lofty at the top of the sales chart...which makes it the opposite of killing them. And just because some people do take issues with the story doesn't mean their claims are right or true.

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Old 05-20-2017, 07:56 PM   #284
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

Not a liberal nor conservative but I can see JH's point. I can also see the point of people saying Marvel isn't creating new characters but instead are making alternative versions of legends. Like a black Hulk, asian Daredevil, a blue StarLord or whatever. I stopped reading comics around the time the Ultimate universe died.

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Old 05-21-2017, 09:27 PM   #285
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Originally Posted by Motown Marvel View Post
I'm not interested in who agrees with me, nor do I believe anything I said even qualifies as being "liberal". I'm more interested in bringing a responsible perspective to ridiculously hyperbolic statements such as "liberal writers are killing marvel". It's just so far from being true, despite the small minority who have used the internet to make loud noises about it. Hell, secret empire is held up as the icon of marvels misdirected liberal agenda which is being blamed for killing them, yet secret empire is sitting lofty at the top of the sales chart...which makes it the opposite of killing them. And just because some people do take issues with the story doesn't mean their claims are right or true.
Technically Secret Empire (last I checked) was 3rd on the sales charts. For some reason Diamond didn't combine the regular covers and variant covers for both Batman and the Flash like it does with most comics. When that's done, they both far surpass Secret Empire. But that's not really important here.

What's important... and what I find funny... is that we all seem to agree with you. I let you know this and you STILL want to police us on your opinions. Okay... great. You've convinced us of what we already knew. Anything new to add to the conversation?

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Old 05-22-2017, 12:08 AM   #286
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Technically Secret Empire (last I checked) was 3rd on the sales charts. For some reason Diamond didn't combine the regular covers and variant covers for both Batman and the Flash like it does with most comics. When that's done, they both far surpass Secret Empire. But that's not really important here.

What's important... and what I find funny... is that we all seem to agree with you. I let you know this and you STILL want to police us on your opinions. Okay... great. You've convinced us of what we already knew. Anything new to add to the conversation?
Nope, I'm good


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Old 05-22-2017, 01:50 PM   #287
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

Thanks for participating

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Old 05-22-2017, 03:14 PM   #288
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

I think there is a argument to made for Marvel being too narrow minded in what they call diversity as well at times.

There is a case to be made for disabled characters like Daredevil, Winter Soldier and Charles Xavier providing representation for people with disabilities.

Characters like Hank Pym, Bruce Banner and Moon Knight providing representation for those with mental illness.

You can easily dismiss characters as being white heterosexual males and miss the fact they have other elements to them that represent a large cross section of the population.

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Old 05-22-2017, 03:16 PM   #289
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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I think there is a argument to made for Marvel being too narrow minded in what they call diversity as well at times.

There is a case to be made for disabled characters like Daredevil, Winter Soldier and Charles Xavier providing representation for people with disabilities.

Characters like Hank Pym, Bruce Banner and Moon Knight providing representation for those with mental illness.

You can easily dismiss characters as being white heterosexual males and miss the fact they have other elements to them that represent a large cross section of the population.
bingo onthis with current day marvel. prior to that they got it when the mid 2000's came about some how things shifted

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Old 05-22-2017, 04:47 PM   #290
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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I think there is a argument to made for Marvel being too narrow minded in what they call diversity as well at times.

There is a case to be made for disabled characters like Daredevil, Winter Soldier and Charles Xavier providing representation for people with disabilities.

Characters like Hank Pym, Bruce Banner and Moon Knight providing representation for those with mental illness.

You can easily dismiss characters as being white heterosexual males and miss the fact they have other elements to them that represent a large cross section of the population.
Dang. I've never considered this. That's a fantastic point.

I think they might have done a little of this with Xavier, but it's by far not a focus of the character. I'd love to see Marvel seriously tackle mental illness with characters like those you mentioned above.

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Old 05-23-2017, 10:10 AM   #291
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

They had a great character storyline with Flash/Agent Venom that handled physical handicaps AND mental illness. But that got tossed out the window to give Brock the suit back and negate years of character development.

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Old 05-23-2017, 09:56 PM   #292
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I wonder if Marvel cares about Facebook or cares that their brand is turning to garbage when you read any social pages that talk about the books???

Just came from Facebook and these were the exact last posts when Newsarama posted about Marvel's August offerings...

>>>>>>>>>
Stephane Job: More of the same from Marvel, I was exited for generations but since none of those one off and over price titles will change anything for the status of the old characters I won't bother. Damage has been done Marvel, it's too lilts too late. It's been a fun 40 years but I'm done

James Melly: they were great back in the day....

Mark Den: Ooooooh another change!?..... yeah whatever, I'm done with you marvel. You & your SJW bs.

Don Blake: More frustrating trash from Marvel. Stopped reading and may NEVER go back. Politically correct nonsense run amok continues.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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Old 05-24-2017, 11:19 AM   #293
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

As if any brand of entertainment doesn't have internet spaces filled with toxic scum.

Reading comments on Star Wars pages would make you think that brand is tanking too.

Who the **** cares what some randoms on facebook are saying?

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Old 05-24-2017, 06:37 PM   #294
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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As if any brand of entertainment doesn't have internet spaces filled with toxic scum.

Reading comments on Star Wars pages would make you think that brand is tanking too.

Who the **** cares what some randoms on facebook are saying?
Yeah I think most people either don't even follow the 'politics' of marvel and just read what they want, blissfully unaware that there is controversy. And the people not bugged by any changes or, just aware how fickle comics are for change, they just sit back and roll their eyes.

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Old 05-25-2017, 03:45 AM   #295
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

The Atlantic has written the best unbiased article on Marvel's comic publishing problems I've seen recently
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...s-woes/527127/

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Old 05-25-2017, 09:25 AM   #296
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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The Atlantic has written the best unbiased article on Marvel's comic publishing problems I've seen recently
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...s-woes/527127/
Makes many good points but also missed many. The writer dismisses that many readers genuinely don't want diversity if it comes at the cost of their most loved characters.
Also, she suggests it would be OK to have cap and Bucky in a romantic relationship. gotta be insane

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Old 05-25-2017, 11:35 AM   #297
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

Great article.

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Old 05-25-2017, 11:44 AM   #298
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Also, she suggests it would be OK to have cap and Bucky in a romantic relationship. gotta be insane
Getting on soap box. What annoys me the most about this is that why is it that if two men can have a close friendship that there has to be some sort underling romance?

I'm Greek Orthodox so I'm pretty conservative but the last time I checked my driver's license I didn't see the name God, Jesus, or Holy Trinity on it so I can't judge let alone I do really care what two consenting adults do in their private homes. It was like the Samwise Frodo relationship of LotR. Damn it why can't two same gender people just have a strong platonic love for each other???

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Old 05-25-2017, 02:50 PM   #299
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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I wonder if Marvel cares about Facebook or cares that their brand is turning to garbage when you read any social pages that talk about the books???

Just came from Facebook and these were the exact last posts when Newsarama posted about Marvel's August offerings...

>>>>>>>>>
Stephane Job: More of the same from Marvel, I was exited for generations but since none of those one off and over price titles will change anything for the status of the old characters I won't bother. Damage has been done Marvel, it's too lilts too late. It's been a fun 40 years but I'm done

James Melly: they were great back in the day....

Mark Den: Ooooooh another change!?..... yeah whatever, I'm done with you marvel. You & your SJW bs.

Don Blake: More frustrating trash from Marvel. Stopped reading and may NEVER go back. Politically correct nonsense run amok continues.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Were those the only four posts you could find? Because two of them don't even make the same anti-diversity complaints as you.

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Old 05-29-2017, 09:04 AM   #300
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How is anti-fascism and racial/gender diversity liberal? That is what I don't understand. The backlash against Marvel lately is ridiculous. And I'm a DC dude.
That's what I'm wondering. Is it possible to be a conservative and *not* be racist/sexist/fascist? Why do posts complaining about liberals then have to mention having problems with same-sex relationships or brown-skinned people? Can't one be conservative without being a 'phobe, ruled by fear? Can one be a *brave* conservative, compassionate and kind, with an open heart, open hands and an open mind? Perhaps even conservative *and* following the teachings of Christ?

I'd be all for some conservative and / or Christian heroes (although the current crop of conservatives seem 100% opposed to anything Christ stood for, such as compassion and charity and welcoming the stranger and judging not lest ye be judged and stuff).

Some conservative heroes, like US Agent at Marvel, or Guy Gardner at DC, tend to be written as autocratic thugs, which is unfortunate, since that half of the country could use some good role models. Christian heroes tend to get sidelined, instead (remember Firebird?), or their faith downplayed or used horribly (Pope Nightcrawler, currently soulless and wearing a body made out demon maggots from Hell? Ugh.).

For that matter, I'd like to see some more heroes from the Midwest and / or southern US, and not have everyone come from New York. Or perhaps just more of a focus on the southern or western qualities of pre-existing characters like Rogue or Cannonball or some development at all of pre-existing non-East-Coasters like Texas Twister or Spider-Woman 2 (Julia Carpenter).

Marvel has admirably 'written what they know' since the '40s, and what they knew was often centered around New York, and the values of the young Jewish writers and editors that ran the ship, back in the day, who did outrageously 'liberal' things like show Captain America punching Hitler in the face, at a time when the majority of the country wanted to stay out of 'that mess in Europe.' It was a politically unpopular choice, and they made it, and stuck with it, and survived despite it.

But time has moved on, and people from all over the country, and all over the world, are both writing and drawing for Marvel (and it's easier to go online and learn all about Atlanta or Dallas, even if you've never been there, if you want to base a character or story there), and their audience is bigger than ever (thanks to the movies and TV shows and Netflix series, etc.), so there's no excuse for so many of their characters and stories to be reflective of one city in one state.

I don't think that liberal PC whatever is the problem, but I do think Marvel (and DC, for that matter) could also introduce some conservative heroes, who *aren't* homophobic or racist or sexist or fascist or thuggish. There's a lack of good role models for conservatives, IMO.

That's less of a problem for Christians, IMO, who have Jesus and his Golden Rule as kind of the ultimate role-model, but still is no reason there can't be some actively religious heroes.

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