The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice > Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Today, 08:25 AM   #651
The Endless
WE are Groot
 
The Endless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,436
Default Re: All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - -

There's nothing wrong with going for thematics in films like this. There's nothing wrong with Lex having that philosophy in concept.

But it came off half baked in the movie itself in terms of execution. It was merely lip service. It all comes across like a snobby try hard philosophiser who did a 2 week college course and now thinks he is cultured and above us plebs. Ultimately it just boils down to Lex trying to make Superman appear fallible and human because his all powerful dad treated him like crap. Not really that deep.

It would've been more interesting if they went with a Lex who genuinely believed that Superman holding humanities hand stunted mankind's potential for growth and greatness. That he resented Superman for his natural gifts, whereas man has to work hard and improve himself through will and determination. This could've tied in nicely with the nature of Batman. Who is the pinnacle of human achievement through sheer willpower. But this wasn't even touched on in the movie.

In actuality Lex's plot only works because Superman and Batman were fools. Although i did like how he tried to wind Bruce up with the letters. But that also opens up another flaw... how does he know Bruce is Batman? Trust me, i dont like being spoon fed but something as important as that shouldnt just be left for the viewer to connect the dots.

In the comics it's called "plot/character induced stupidity". It's actually pretty common so it's kinda accepted, to a degree. But you can't really get away with it in movies.

__________________
People think dreams aren't real just because they aren't made of matter, of particles. Dreams are real. But they are made of viewpoints, of images, of memories and puns and lost hopes
The Endless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 09:03 AM   #652
misslane38
Side-Kick
 
misslane38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,015
Default Re: All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Endless View Post
There's nothing wrong with going for thematics in films like this. There's nothing wrong with Lex having that philosophy in concept.

But it came off half baked in the movie itself in terms of execution. It was merely lip service. It all comes across like a snobby try hard philosophiser who did a 2 week college course and now thinks he is cultured and above us plebs. Ultimately it just boils down to Lex trying to make Superman appear fallible and human because his all powerful dad treated him like crap. Not really that deep.

It would've been more interesting if they went with a Lex who genuinely believed that Superman holding humanities hand stunted mankind's potential for growth and greatness. That he resented Superman for his natural gifts, whereas man has to work hard and improve himself through will and determination. This could've tied in nicely with the nature of Batman. Who is the pinnacle of human achievement through sheer willpower. But this wasn't even touched on in the movie.
I find both motivations interesting. Neither of them is inherently more interesting or more complex than the other. Is revenge less complex than jealousy? I don't think so. Besides, the jealousy angle was "touched on" in the movie.

Lex's speech to the politicians:

"These exceptional beings live among us. The bases of our myths. Gods among men upon our...our little blue planet here. You don't have to use the silver bullet, but if you forge one..well, then we don't have to depend upon the kindness of monsters."

Lex's speech at the library fundraiser:

"Books are knowledge, and knowledge is power. And I am...Heh heh heh, no. I, umm. No, what am I? Alright, what am I suppose to say? The bitter sweet pain among man is having knowledge with no power. Because...Because that is paradoxical..Prometheus went with us, and he ruined Zeus' plan to destroy mankind and for that, he was given a thunderbolt."

Quote:
In the comics it's called "plot/character induced stupidity". It's actually pretty common so it's kinda accepted, to a degree. But you can't really get away with it in movies.
Bruce's foolishness isn't just random stupidity. His blindness is brought on by a complex response to trauma. And if you can't get away with telling a story of how a good and intelligent man can be damaged by PTSD, then that is a problem for me.

__________________
"Nevertheless, she persisted."

Last edited by misslane38; Today at 09:16 AM.
misslane38 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:08 AM   #653
The Endless
WE are Groot
 
The Endless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,436
Default Re: All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - -

Not necessarily talking about Bruce there. I'm talking about Kal.

__________________
People think dreams aren't real just because they aren't made of matter, of particles. Dreams are real. But they are made of viewpoints, of images, of memories and puns and lost hopes
The Endless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:37 AM   #654
misslane38
Side-Kick
 
misslane38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,015
Default Re: All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Endless View Post
Not necessarily talking about Bruce there. I'm talking about Kal.
How was Superman stupid? My reading of him as a character was that any blind spots he may have had were more a consequence of his idealism, optimism, and naivete than genuine stupidity. In many iterations of the character, love and emotion are weaknesses. Lois is a blind spot. If Clark was stupid to not speak to the public, well he did try to speak. If Clark was stupid to not see the bomb, he didn't see it because he wasn't looking. He didn't look because he believed and trusted that humanity would be better.

__________________
"Nevertheless, she persisted."
misslane38 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:19 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.