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Old 06-19-2013, 11:45 AM   #451
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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Originally Posted by spider-neil View Post
I don't know what it is about superhero movies these days is I don't seem to be any enjoying any superhero movies right out the game (on first viewing).

ASM
MoS
TDKR
all movies that I enjoyed more on my second viewing and was a little reluctant to watch for a second time.
Unlike TDK, SM2 where I loved the movie straight out the gate and couldn't wait to watch multiple times.
I know it isn't me being jaded because I saw Dredd and loved it straight out of the gate. IM3 I just dislike and no amount of rewatching changed my mind.
The only film that I was "iffy" about on my first viewing and it only got worse, TAS-M. A shame too because I would have loved to get these amazing reboots of those top three comic book characters, but I'm still waiting for a really great Spidey flick.

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Old 06-19-2013, 12:24 PM   #452
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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Originally Posted by spider-neil View Post
I don't know what it is about superhero movies these days is I don't seem to be any enjoying any superhero movies right out the game (on first viewing).

ASM
MoS
TDKR
all movies that I enjoyed more on my second viewing and was a little reluctant to watch for a second time.
Unlike TDK, SM2 where I loved the movie straight out the gate and couldn't wait to watch multiple times.
I know it isn't me being jaded because I saw Dredd and loved it straight out of the gate. IM3 I just dislike and no amount of rewatching changed my mind.
There's nothing wrong with a movie that needs a second view to get fully enjoyment of it. But I agree that there is this kind of movie that just blow you away straight away. And then, to me, movies like Iron man 2 or 3, which made such a poor impression I don't think I'll ever watch again. I saw IM2 once back in the day and only got a second view last week, only to understand why it is so damn boring. But having the Mandarin twist in 3, I don't think I could stomach a second viewing.

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Old 06-19-2013, 05:06 PM   #453
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

I actually typed up an article called "Iron Man 3 VS Man of Steel". It's kind of long but I didn't want to type a giant wall of text here so I posted it on my blog:

http://thecinemareviewed.blogspot.co...-of-steel.html

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Old 06-19-2013, 08:20 PM   #454
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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IM3 *already* has great legs. 1.2 billion of them. It's a frickin' millipede with that many legs. MoS is already facing a huge test against Monsters U and WWZ. I think it should be able to hold its own against WWZ (which, as said above, might turn into a megabomb anyway), but Monsters U, like most kiddie fare in summer, is probably a juggernaut in the making. Just depends on whether or not kids and families want funny this weekend, or action.

As to IM3 vs. MOS: I'm personally giving a slight edge to IM3. MOS was a great movie, and has the best super-action of any superhero movie anywhere, bar none (and yes, I include Avengers there); but what kept it from being spectacular, to me, was the poor writing. The direction and the acting were great, as were the vfx and the action. But the movie could've greatly benefited from cracking a smile every once in awhile instead of being so damn all the time. Too much earnestness and seriousness tend to bore the audience after awhile. You need *some* comic relief to offset too much drama; even Shakespeare understood that back in the 16th century. That, and the nonlinear structure was misplaced in this movie. I understand why Goyer did it, to an extent (Superman's story is one we all know by heart, so he figured it was okay to skip around a bit), but this is one of those occasions where the movie would have had more emotional resonance in a straightforward linear path.

That's not what I meant by legs. First, I was talking about domestic only and second, legs are all about the multiplier from a movie's opening weekend. Now IM3 didn't need great legs with an OW that large but that doesn't change the fact that it's headed for a multiplier well short of even IM2's average-but-not-bad legs.

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Old 06-20-2013, 12:16 AM   #455
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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That's not what I meant by legs. First, I was talking about domestic only and second, legs are all about the multiplier from a movie's opening weekend. Now IM3 didn't need great legs with an OW that large but that doesn't change the fact that it's headed for a multiplier well short of even IM2's average-but-not-bad legs.

What numbers are you even looking at?

http://boxofficemojo.com/showdowns/c...ngingmetal.htm


IM3 blows the **** out of IM2's numbers in every conceivable category, especially "legs." All the way up to 4th weekend grosses, and IM3 is ranked #21 all-time to IM2's #39; for 5th weekend, IM3 is at #109 to IM2 #136; and in 6th weekend, IM3 is at #142, and IM2 was no longer even in the top 150.

And why are you singling out "domestic only," when the bulk of IM3's $1.2 billion take comes from overseas? In fact, it's the only IM movie where more than 50% of the gross comes from foreign instead of domestic, by a whopping 66.8%.

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Old 06-20-2013, 06:11 AM   #456
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

I don't think you're getting the concept. I am not and never have been arguing that IM3 isn't a bigger and more successful film than it's predecessor. Of course it is. It made nearly twice as much $ WW. But legs are useful in determining how much a film's initial audience liked the film enough to go back and see it again in subsequent weeks. And I just was talking about domestic as it's the easiest to track. Over seas is kind of a mess to track as each country has different release dates and such so with OS I usually just look at the whole of it. As to DOM, a decently average multiplier is somewhere in the mid 2x's. IM2 had something like a 2.43X so it was right in line there. A bad multiplier would be something closer to a flat 2.0X and a really good one would be up around a 3X. Avengers had a 3X, IM1 had a 3X. IM3 is heading for something like a 2.3-2.35X which would be the lowest for any movie that's ever had Iron Man in it. From that you can draw the conclusion that a smaller % of the people who went to see IM3 on OW returned for repeat viewings. It's an indication of how well people liked the movie.

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Old 06-20-2013, 06:31 AM   #457
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

A movie doesn't need a big multiplier when it makes $300 million domestic in 14 days and $1 billion worldwide in 23. The fact that it hit both of those milestones on the same day was serendipity. Iron Man 3 and The Avengers were sprinters, doing the bulk of their business extremely fast as people raced out to see them.

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Old 06-20-2013, 06:39 AM   #458
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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A movie doesn't need a big multiplier when it makes $300 million domestic in 14 days and $1 billion worldwide in 23. The fact that it hit both of those milestones on the same day was serendipity. Iron Man 3 and The Avengers were sprinters, doing the bulk of their business extremely fast as people raced out to see them.
True, with an opening that big, it doesn't need it. That's not what I was saying. And IM3 is indeed a frontloaded sprinter. The Avengers which was even bigger...was not. It had a really good 3X. It hung around for a long time.

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Old 06-20-2013, 07:29 AM   #459
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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True, with an opening that big, it doesn't need it. That's not what I was saying. And IM3 is indeed a frontloaded sprinter. The Avengers which was even bigger...was not. It had a really good 3X. It hung around for a long time.

So, you were seriously expecting Iron Man 3 to put up numbers similar to the biggest movie of all time (that didn't have James Cameron at the helm)? That Iron Man was going to be bigger than the sum of Avengers' parts?

IM3 made 1.2 billion ****ing dollars. The 5th highest grossing film of all time. All time, Kanye. I don't know what point you're trying to prove, but it's going over like a lead balloon. What is this "multiplier" you're even talking about? Where is it calculated? Where is it listed? Who arbitrarily declared (other than you) what constitutes a "good multiplier," whatever that means? Mojo shows all the stats you need to see to know what everybody else (besides, apparently, you) knows: that IM3 is one of the most successful movies of all time.

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Old 06-20-2013, 07:35 AM   #460
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

A multiplier is very much a real thing. It's based on how much a film makes compared to how big it debuts.

For example a film deputing to a 100m ow and finishing with around 300m has a 3x multiplier, which is considered quite good.

Than you have the super front loaded flick like the twillight series for example that gross well over 100m ow but finsih at under 300m.

A multipliers refers to the legs of a film how much support it garners past it's ow. Whether it was popular with repeat viewings and the likes.

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Old 06-20-2013, 07:57 AM   #461
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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So, you were seriously expecting Iron Man 3 to put up numbers similar to the biggest movie of all time (that didn't have James Cameron at the helm)? That Iron Man was going to be bigger than the sum of Avengers' parts?

IM3 made 1.2 billion ****ing dollars. The 5th highest grossing film of all time. All time, Kanye. I don't know what point you're trying to prove, but it's going over like a lead balloon. What is this "multiplier" you're even talking about? Where is it calculated? Where is it listed? Who arbitrarily declared (other than you) what constitutes a "good multiplier," whatever that means? Mojo shows all the stats you need to see to know what everybody else (besides, apparently, you) knows: that IM3 is one of the most successful movies of all time.
Obviously since it opened smaller than TA it wouldn't need to do TA numbers to have a good multiplier. If IM3 had a 3X like IM1 and TA did then it would have made around $522M domestic which is still over 100M less than TA did. And Bruce Malone explained it above just fine. A multiplier is a real thing and any site that tracks box office will tell you that. It is, has been and always will be a solid indicator of how a film is received. The more well received your movie is the better it's legs from what the OW was will end up being. IM3 has so-so legs. Granted, it didn't need them as much since it opened so huge but it still says something about how it was received.

Clearly, you don't follow box office stuff if you've never heard of the concept of a multiplier. Everyone and their grandmother over on sites like BOM and such knows what that is.

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Old 06-20-2013, 09:06 AM   #462
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That's what I'm talking about, it just became another Transformers smash fest. Some of the visuals are fantastic, for sure.

As many of us said, somewhere inbetween all the muddled scenes is a great movie, perhaps the best comic book movie of all time, but what was delivered was a jumbled mess.

If Goyer and Snyder aren't removed from the sequel, I'm done with the series.
Then you're done with the series.
Not meaning to sound antagonistic, I'm just saying they will not be removed, so there is no point in hoping/expecting them to leave. So you are already done with the series.

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Old 06-20-2013, 10:42 AM   #463
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

IM3 faced intense competition in its run that accounted more for its "poor" legs than any alleged "average" reception. TGG was IMO the biggest culprit, as its unexpected success took away IM3's buffer week. Then you got STiD the week after that, and then the one-two punch of TH3 and FF6 after that.

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Old 06-20-2013, 12:30 PM   #464
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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Obviously since it opened smaller than TA it wouldn't need to do TA numbers to have a good multiplier. If IM3 had a 3X like IM1 and TA did then it would have made around $522M domestic which is still over 100M less than TA did. And Bruce Malone explained it above just fine. A multiplier is a real thing and any site that tracks box office will tell you that. It is, has been and always will be a solid indicator of how a film is received. The more well received your movie is the better it's legs from what the OW was will end up being. IM3 has so-so legs. Granted, it didn't need them as much since it opened so huge but it still says something about how it was received.

Clearly, you don't follow box office stuff if you've never heard of the concept of a multiplier. Everyone and their grandmother over on sites like BOM and such knows what that is.
Apparently not *everybody,* since I can't find it listed anywhere on this IM3 box office breakdown page at Mojo. Can you?

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=ironman3.htm

Again, I ask: where are these numbers you're coming up with? Show me a site that shows what IM3's "multipliers" are. And then show me where it's written into law what constitutes a "good multiplier" vs. a "bad multiplier."

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Old 06-20-2013, 01:47 PM   #465
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

Just got back from opening night...Iron Man 3 by a wide margin. I didn't like MoS at all.

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Old 06-20-2013, 05:05 PM   #466
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Just got back from opening night...Iron Man 3 by a wide margin. I didn't like MoS at all.

Give it another try, I hated MoS on first viewing.

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Old 06-21-2013, 12:36 AM   #467
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Give it another try, I hated MoS on first viewing.
The films issues are too overt to dismiss. I couldn't even take Cavill seriously with the hopelessly boring dialogue and his awkward delivery. Wouldn't you agree that he sounded uncomfortable with every line he uttered? The man could hardly sell a word, he damn near sounded like a sock puppet. This wasn't even exclusive to him either; Snyder simply was not able to get anything out of his actors, which is a huge travesty. That's half of a director's job alone.

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Old 06-21-2013, 12:38 AM   #468
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

The acting has been rarely criticized actually and is usually high-lighted as one of the pluses. Most of the criticisms tend to fall on the pace and tone of the film.

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Old 06-21-2013, 01:08 AM   #469
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The acting has been rarely criticized actually and is usually high-lighted as one of the pluses. Most of the criticisms tend to fall on the pace and tone of the film.
When you have an action scene that seems to go on forever there is no excuse for a lack of character development. The end fight should have been cut down and more time devoted to fleshing out characters.

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Old 06-21-2013, 01:35 AM   #470
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

I think the fight that really needed to be cut was when Superman was fighting the giant tentacles. That just seemed too much.

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Old 06-21-2013, 01:58 AM   #471
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I think the fight that really needed to be cut was when Superman was fighting the giant tentacles. That just seemed too much.
To be completely honest MoS loses its way in the 3rd act where it just becomes Transformers with a cape. For me none of the fights were engaging and by the end of them I was bored.

MoS is like ASM for me, in that the worst thing about the movie is the action. The drama of those movies had me engaged, when the action kicks in I lose interest.

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Old 06-21-2013, 08:44 AM   #472
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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The films issues are too overt to dismiss. I couldn't even take Cavill seriously with the hopelessly boring dialogue and his awkward delivery. Wouldn't you agree that he sounded uncomfortable with every line he uttered? The man could hardly sell a word, he damn near sounded like a sock puppet. This wasn't even exclusive to him either; Snyder simply was not able to get anything out of his actors, which is a huge travesty. That's half of a director's job alone.

I wouldn't agree with that. At all.
Cavill did a great job as Kal-El. So did Shannon, and Crowe, and Adams, and Lane.

MoS was a good film, but a flawed film. I think it would've benefitted by foregoing the whole nonlinear structure and just tell the story in chronological order; that would've given a lot of scenes the emotional resonance they deserved (and advertised in the trailers).

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Old 06-21-2013, 11:04 AM   #473
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

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Apparently not *everybody,* since I can't find it listed anywhere on this IM3 box office breakdown page at Mojo. Can you?

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=ironman3.htm

Again, I ask: where are these numbers you're coming up with? Show me a site that shows what IM3's "multipliers" are. And then show me where it's written into law what constitutes a "good multiplier" vs. a "bad multiplier."
You'd be better off going here: http://forums.boxoffice.com/

The whole multiplier thing is in the forums of people who track box office on a regular basis. You can ask them and I'm sure they'd be willing to explain the whole deal with multipliers. BOM closed down it's forum area some years ago and they all migrated to the site I gave you. They can tell you why a certain multiplier is considered good and another isn't. They take many variables into account when calculating all that up.

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Old 06-21-2013, 11:26 AM   #474
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Default Re: Iron Man 3 vs Man Of Steel

I watched Man of Steel yesterday night and i thought it was great. Not awesome or TDK quality but dammit it was good, very very good. By far the most unconvetional superhero movie i've seen in a while.

Although i liked Iron Man 3 i was never submersed into the story. I had a weird feeling watching it, like when you are doing other things and somebody else in the room is watching tv and it plays a movie you've watched with a really cool scene it and you are stopping whatever your are doing just to watch that scene and then immidiately go back to your work. Thats what Iron Man 3 felt, both times i watched it.

Man of Steel made me cry, really suprised me with the direction it took, it gave me the best Superman moment in quite a while and hooked me to the character, big time. Until yesterday i liked superman but not that much. Now i really really love him. Not his looks and style but what he represents. The movie has some flaws, pacing issues and the fact that the goverment is fairly cool about Sups being on earth kinda bugged me. I hope they adress that on a sequel, maybe Lex Luthor will be responsible for US's misstrust.

So, Man of Steel all the way.

PS : Best Lois Lane ever, great Zod although it wasn't a Ledger lvl performance, not even a Hiddleston, fantastic Superman.

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Old 06-21-2013, 01:37 PM   #475
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I think the fight that really needed to be cut was when Superman was fighting the giant tentacles. That just seemed too much.
I thought that part was just fine. The World Engine seemed very Brainiac-y and I loved that.

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