The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 146

[Eggyman]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

I also don't get why people act like character development for Gotham from BB and TDK doesn't carry over to TDK. It's all the same city that Bruce is fighting for over the course of 3 movies after all.

I agree in general, but on the other hand its differing aesthetics don't help it feel like the same city.

I came in to say I'm watching rises and for all its faults I love how Bale plays Bruce in this film.

[Visceral]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

But do they matter? We never see them and their struggles. it might as well be nonexistent.

Yeah they do matter. And the central cast gives us eyes into their world. Upper class(Bruce, Talia, Daggett), Middle(Blake, Gordon, Foley), Lower (Selina, Holly, the Orphanage).

But you missed the point I was trying to make. Bale stated the film is about consequences. I am saying that Truth takes a large thematic part in the film as well. As the trilogy progresses, the people of Gotham become more aggressive as a consequence of Batman's actions.

[BatLobsterRises]

Originally Posted by Eggyman

I agree in general, but on the other hand its differing aesthetics don't help it feel like the same city.

I came in to say I'm watching rises and for all its faults I love how Bale plays Bruce in this film.

Yeah, I know what you mean but I suppose I just think of it as us seeing different parts of the city throughout the 3 films (and at different times too).

And for sure, Bale delivers his best (IMHO) performance of the trilogy in Rises.

[JackWhite]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

Yeah, I know what you mean but I suppose I just think of it as us seeing different parts of the city throughout the 3 films (and at different times too).

And for sure, Bale delivers his best (IMHO) performance of the trilogy in Rises.

The performances from everyone was once again top notch. But Bale really delivered, yet again, as Batman/Bruce.

But because he was so damn good, and looked amazing in the suit, it really makes me wish there was more of him actually in it. But when he is on screen as Batman; you really feel the importance of the symbol that he created in BB. I just love the way he walks through the flare smoke during the "light it up" scene.

[BatLobsterRises]

Originally Posted by JackWhite

The performances from everyone was once again top notch. But Bale really delivered, yet again, as Batman/Bruce.

But because he was so damn good, and looked amazing in the suit, it really makes me wish there was more of him actually in it. But when he is on screen as Batman; you really feel the importance of the symbol that he created in BB. I just love the way he walks through the flare smoke during the "light it up" scene.

I think Tim Burton would have to applaud the usage of Batman in TDKR. It really seemed to validate that "less is more" philosophy that he was so adamant about. Only in this time it was actually organic to the narrative and you felt the weight of his absence more in the story.

Ironically "Batman Returns" would probably be a more accurate title for TDKR than it is for its own movie, seeing as Batman really wasn't "returning" from anything in BR, lol.

[Anno_Domini]

Well it was going to be Batman II...the title should've sticked.

[Kane52630]

He "returned" to theaters, that's what it was.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Kane52630

He "returned" to theaters, that's what it was.

Imagine if they use that "brilliant" way of thinking with Spider-Man....

The Amazing Spider-Man Returns

[Carnotaur3]

Originally Posted by JackWhite

The performances from everyone was once again top notch. But Bale really delivered, yet again, as Batman/Bruce.

But because he was so damn good, and looked amazing in the suit, it really makes me wish there was more of him actually in it. But when he is on screen as Batman; you really feel the importance of the symbol that he created in BB. I just love the way he walks through the flare smoke during the "light it up" scene.

My favorite moment is when he comes out of the shadows as Bruce Wayne.
"Is that what they say about me?"

And that Batman Begins music that played at the beginning in the prison. Brilliant!

[BatLobsterRises]

Fourth-wall breaking titles ftw lol

Originally Posted by Carnotaur3

My favorite moment is when he comes out of the shadows as Bruce Wayne.
"Is that what they say about me?"

And that Batman Begins music that played at the beginning in the prison. Brilliant!

That moment gave me chills and broke my heart all at the same time. It's like Bruce has come so far since that prison, yet he was right back where he started: a broken man with no direction.

[Carnotaur3]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

Fourth-wall breaking titles ftw lol



That moment gave me chills and broke my heart all at the same time. It's like Bruce has come so far since that prison, yet he was right back where he started: a broken man with no direction.

All the call backs were great because they were in service of the story, not shoe-horned in.

[kvz5]

Originally Posted by Carnotaur3

My favorite moment is when he comes out of the shadows as Bruce Wayne.
"Is that what they say about me?"

And that Batman Begins music that played at the beginning in the prison. Brilliant!

I loved that scene. Heartbreaking.

[georgec]

Originally Posted by JackWhite

I just love the way he walks through the flare smoke during the "light it up" scene.

Honest to goodness one of my favorite shots ever captured in a film.

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Bale was phenomenal in Begins and TDKR...

He was good but not quite up there in TDK. He certainly wasn't phoning it in, but I still don't think he was giving his absolute best.

[Tacit Ronin]

Yeah they do matter. And the central cast gives us eyes into their world. Upper class(Bruce, Talia,

Bruce Wayne deals exclusively with his demons and pains in this movie. Things that aren't class distinctive. He does lose his money, but him being taken to prison sometime after it negates the need for any exploration on that area.

Talia was too much of an enigma in the narrative to explore anything of the class variety. What was hinted at is moot because she turned out to be a villain anyway.

Daggett)

Indeed, we see him dabbling in senseless rich conglomerate debauchery, supplying Bane and bullying Selina. But if this is the only glimpse of the rich's influence we see in this movie (Wayne wasn't rich when he saved the city, remember), then that doesn't speak to well to the range of this film's depth.

Middle(Blake, Gordon, Foley)

Blake's arc, Gordon's struggles, Foley's idiocy and ambition weren't class distinctive.

Lower (Selina, Holly,

Beyond the simple fact that she was from poverty, her actual struggles in the film weren't class distinctive. A rich woman or a middle class woman could conceivably be a criminal looking for a clean slate as well. The movie misses ample opportunity to explore Selina and her social context in the second act siege by her being almost absent.

the Orphanage)

Having two lines about kids aging out and doing odd jobs in noble, but it simply isn't enough.

But you missed the point I was trying to make. Bale stated the film is about consequences. I am saying that Truth takes a large thematic part in the film as well. As the trilogy progresses, the people of Gotham become more aggressive as a consequence of Batman's actions.

Perhaps certain minorities become more aggressive (the impoverished mob), but the rest, as far as I saw, bent their assess and took every last inch Bane and Talia shoved in them. I somehow don't see the TDK Gothamites being as submissive to the League's sadist assaults.

[Tequilla]

I dont see them as more aggressive. In TDK some guys also accept Joker's challenge and try to kill Reese .

They react , like they always do (and like moderns society also does) , in complete apathy. Rises is extremely coherent in that process.

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Now I'm not a big box office buff... but just how much did the lack of 3D affect the final total of TDKR's income?

[Kane52630]

It's a shame we never got more interviews like these.

[georgec]

Originally Posted by Pfeiffer-Pfan

Now I'm not a big box office buff... but just how much did the lack of 3D affect the final total of TDKR's income?

Not nearly as much as the negative press from the shooting.

(I'm not trivializing the shooting in any way, but the news and constant media discussion of the "Batman shooting" did have an effect on TDKR's box office.)

[kvz5]

Originally Posted by Kane52630

It's a shame we never got more interviews like these.

God I love Charlie Rose's interviews. They're always awesome and it's the type of interview that Bale actually looks like he enjoys doing. He's done that for almost all of his movies.

[redfirebird2008]

Originally Posted by Pfeiffer-Pfan

Now I'm not a big box office buff... but just how much did the lack of 3D affect the final total of TDKR's income?

Add about 10% to the domestic total and 15% to the overseas total. So around $45m extra in the domestic market and around $95m extra in the overseas market. Then there is the shooting in the domestic market. I think it probably lost $30-40m in the domestic market as a result of the shooting. So total "loss" of around $170-180m worldwide.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Pfeiffer-Pfan

Bale was phenomenal in Begins and TDKR...

He was good but not quite up there in TDK. He certainly wasn't phoning it in, but I still don't think he was giving his absolute best.

Agreed to an extent. He was a good Bruce Wayne in TDK, but a phenomenal(hate to steal your word ) Bruce in both BB and TDKR, although I think it was needed for this story to have a strong beginning and end with its main character. TDK was just a strong BATMAN film, and I think that's what Bale did achieve. The film didn't really do much, for my liking, with the character of Bruce Wayne though.

[kvz5]

Originally Posted by redfirebird2008

Add about 10% to the domestic total and 15% to the overseas total. So around $45m extra in the domestic market and around $95m extra in the overseas market. Then there is the shooting in the domestic market. I think it probably lost $30-40m in the domestic market as a result of the shooting. So total "loss" of around $170-180m worldwide.

Damn. I mean, even if we lower that to around $100M, that's still very significant.

[redfirebird2008]

Originally Posted by kvz5

Damn. I mean, even if we lower that to around $100M, that's still very significant.

Goes to show the power Nolan has in resisting the studio's demands for 3D. Same thing will happen with Interstellar, except this time he will be resisting a studio he has no built-in clout with (Paramount). They forced Abrams to convert Star Trek 2 to 3D, but I doubt they will be able to do the same thing to Nolan. He probably had it put in writing for his contract that they can't convert it.

[kvz5]

Originally Posted by redfirebird2008

Goes to show the power Nolan has in resisting the studio's demands for 3D.

Not only that, he also most likely killed whatever chances of using his Batverse in JL or WF.