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View Poll Results: Do you want to see Dany and Jon get together, hook up, marry, have a child, etc?
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:07 AM   #176
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Default Re: A song of ice and fire = Jon Snow & Dany?

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Okay what other choices are there? Let's consider the political map of the Seven Kingdoms:



The Iron Islands, Crownlands, Westerlands, and Stormlands are under enemy control.

The Riverlands are leaderless, Dorne is leaderless, the Tyrells in the Reach are gone and the Tarlys are enemies --not that Dany needs a political marriage to secure this region since its now invested by her Dothraki horde.

That leaves King Jon's vast North (perhaps 40% of the land mass of Westeros) and the Vale of Arryn where Dany could also marry:






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You laugh, but that seems like a valid choice for Dany. Plus he would be a pushover for her to deal with, and she could have as many paramours as she wants.

The whole point of a politically advantageous marriage is that a union like that theoretically could be on the table for the character.

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Old 08-12-2017, 03:23 AM   #177
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Default Re: A song of ice and fire = Jon Snow & Dany?

The Vale is implied to have joined the Kingdom of the North.

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Old 08-12-2017, 09:39 AM   #178
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Default Re: A song of ice and fire = Jon Snow & Dany?

It's unambiguous that the Vale has declared for Jon as an ally. It is ambiguous as to whether they've declared allegiance to him as their king. If the latter, than Jon is easily the highest ranked suitor Dany could find. If the latter, he still seems like the front runner just on principle of already leading another military coalition, particularly with, again, the KITN's possible pull with Riverlanders as well as the Vale, particularly the as-yet-still-living Edmure Tully, if they can release him. Jon's supposed illegitimacy means nothing at this stage of the game; too much of the social order of Westeros has broken down for anyone to give a damn beyond his clear Stark blood (to the Northerners). He's in charge of the Northe because he's in charge of the North. In real life, Henry Tudor landed in England with his only legal claim being that his grandfather had married the widow of a Lancastrian king; he didn't have a drop of Plantagenent blood, so he mostly became king by killing Richard III.

If we're looking to the Vale for other potential suitors, I'd argue Littlefinger probably outpaces Robin Arryn. He may only be Lord Protector in name, but in practice, he's got that kingdom locked down, and he's ostensibly still Lord of Harrenhall and Lord Paramount of the Riverlands if he bothered to garrison it.

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Old 08-12-2017, 11:07 AM   #179
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Default Re: A song of ice and fire = Jon Snow & Dany?

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It'd be interesting to see what Sansa, Arya, and the Northern lords would think of a Jon/Dany hookup/marriage. Especially since all of them (well we don't know Arya's thoughts on it right yet) already don't trust Dany anyway.

Especially if the truth about Jon's heritage becomes public as well.
The Starks are technically the closest thing Dany has to a family right now.
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The Vale is implied to have joined the Kingdom of the North.
Not implied, pretty much confirmed. Royce was there during the King in the North chant last season and he's been addressing Jon as your grace.
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It's unambiguous that the Vale has declared for Jon as an ally. It is ambiguous as to whether they've declared allegiance to him as their king. If the latter, than Jon is easily the highest ranked suitor Dany could find. If the latter, he still seems like the front runner just on principle of already leading another military coalition, particularly with, again, the KITN's possible pull with Riverlanders as well as the Vale, particularly the as-yet-still-living Edmure Tully, if they can release him. Jon's supposed illegitimacy means nothing at this stage of the game; too much of the social order of Westeros has broken down for anyone to give a damn beyond his clear Stark blood (to the Northerners). He's in charge of the Northe because he's in charge of the North. In real life, Henry Tudor landed in England with his only legal claim being that his grandfather had married the widow of a Lancastrian king; he didn't have a drop of Plantagenent blood, so he mostly became king by killing Richard III.

If we're looking to the Vale for other potential suitors, I'd argue Littlefinger probably outpaces Robin Arryn. He may only be Lord Protector in name, but in practice, he's got that kingdom locked down, and he's ostensibly still Lord of Harrenhall and Lord Paramount of the Riverlands if he bothered to garrison it.
Littlefinger has his own problems to deal with and he wasn't too happy to hear that Tyrion was serving as Hand to Dany.

Jon Snow is the only choice

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Old 08-12-2017, 11:31 AM   #180
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Default Re: A song of ice and fire = Jon Snow & Dany?

Jon is the best candidate for a political marriage (not that I want that to happen). The status of bastard can be lifted like it was for Ramsay.

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Old 08-12-2017, 11:33 AM   #181
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You laugh, but that seems like a valid choice for Dany. Plus he would be a pushover for her to deal with, and she could have as many paramours as she wants.

The whole point of a politically advantageous marriage is that a union like that theoretically could be on the table for the character.
Yes, in strictly political terms, it's a valid choice, but in dramatic terms --that is, how it looks and plays out on the screen with a socially-dysfunctional (thanks to Lysa's sheltering and extreme mollycoddling) and completely inept doof -- it really would be an absurd choice! They may as well start a sequel sitcom series and add "The Mother of Robin's" to Dany's titles.


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Old 08-12-2017, 11:38 AM   #182
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Jon is the best candidate for a political marriage (not that I want that to happen). The status of bastard can be lifted like it was for Ramsay.
the status of bastard is superseded by his king status. the lords of the north themselves didn't care that he's a bastard when they made him king

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Old 08-12-2017, 11:40 AM   #183
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If the latter, he still seems like the front runner just on principle of already leading another military coalition, particularly with, again, the KITN's possible pull with Riverlanders as well as the Vale, particularly the as-yet-still-living Edmure Tully, if they can release him.
After Arya's murder of all of the male Freys, do you suppose that he is still in their dungeon?

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Old 08-12-2017, 11:42 AM   #184
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After Arya's murder of all of the male Freys, do you suppose that he is still in their dungeon?
this is just an example of the poor writing the seasons have suffered ever since not having any books to go off of. yes, Edmure is either still stuck in a dungeon because Arya forgot about her uncle Edmure, or, he's been retconned off of the show like apparently Ghost has.

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Old 08-12-2017, 11:42 AM   #185
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the status of bastard is superseded by his king status. the lords of the north themselves didn't care that he's a bastard when they made him king
Yeah that's what I was saying. It's not really that relevant anymore.

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Old 08-12-2017, 12:24 PM   #186
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Yeah that's what I was saying. It's not really that relevant anymore.
TheVileOne keeps saying that's what's stopping Dany from considering him.

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Old 08-12-2017, 01:25 PM   #187
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this is just an example of the poor writing the seasons have suffered ever since not having any books to go off of. yes, Edmure is either still stuck in a dungeon because Arya forgot about her uncle Edmure, or, he's been retconned off of the show like apparently Ghost has.
Arya "forgot" because either D&D forgot, or they simply don't need him yet. Precisely because they don't have a lot of source material to adapt (nothing more than a rough skeletal outline of GRRM's ideas), they are wrapping up the story quickly now (the pace is a lot faster) and they're evidently not wasting a scene on him if it has no direct relevance to the current arc. Similarly, Ghost has to have a distinct purpose toward furthering the story to be included in a scene because a CGI Direwolf is simply too much of a drain on the FX budget to be just hanging out as ornamentation.

I think we'll see Ghost again before series end, in the final battles with the Army of the Dead when they'll need to throw everything at them. Maybe even Edmure will return then to muster the shattered remnants of the Riverlands --especially if the Army of the Dead overruns the North. Then they'll need to try and stop them where the continent narrows at the Neck (a strategic bottleneck) near the border of the Riverlands --that's when and where Uncle Ed might return to join in the defense.

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Old 08-12-2017, 01:36 PM   #188
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Arya "forgot" because either D&D forgot, or they simply don't need him yet. Precisely because they don't have a lot of source material to adapt (nothing more than a rough skeletal outline of GRRM's ideas), they are wrapping up the story quickly now (the pace is a lot faster) and they're evidently not wasting a scene on him if it has no direct relevance to the current arc. Similarly, Ghost has to have a distinct purpose toward furthering the story to be included in a scene because a CGI Direwolf is simply too much of a drain on the FX budget to be just hanging out as ornamentation.

I think we'll see Ghost again before series end, in the final battles with the Army of the Dead when they'll need to throw everything at them. Maybe even Edmure will return then to muster the shattered remnants of the Riverlands --especially if the Army of the Dead overruns the North. Then they'll need to try and stop them where the continent narrows at the Neck (a strategic bottleneck) near the border of the Riverlands --that's when and where Uncle Ed might return to join in the defense.
if they could make time for a 90 second nudity scene with GW and Missandei then they could've made time for a 30 second scene of Arya freeing Edmure. He doesn't even have to be in every single episode; just one quick scene of a niece rescuing her uncle would've been enough.

You are right about the budget too but HBO should grant a bigger budget for the last 2 seasons of the show. It's so stupid how the story is handicapped and dictated by the budget.

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Old 08-12-2017, 01:49 PM   #189
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TheVileOne keeps saying that's what's stopping Dany from considering him.
Dany hasn't been stopped by anything because it's not on the table yet, but it seems highly doubtful that any other marriage prospect will be considered.

Daario was dumped as a hindrance to potential political unions in Westeros -that was specifically written in as the beginning for setting one up.

Jon quickly arrives on Dragonstone and now Dany and Jon are sharing ample screen time together, and that's setup part two. Jon has maintained his status as an equal, a monarch who will not bend the knee and become a vassal. That sets him above any other lord in Westeros.

So despite what Vile One or anyone else may opine on the matter, D&D (and perhaps GRRM too, if they are extrapolating from him for this pairing) are clearly steering toward this outcome, and they are not held back by Jon's "bastard" status, especially because he really isn't one and that will be revealed soon enough!


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Old 08-12-2017, 02:12 PM   #190
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if they could make time for a 90 second nudity scene with GW and Missandei then they could've made time for a 30 second scene of Arya freeing Edmure. He doesn't even have to be in every single episode; just one quick scene of a niece rescuing her uncle would've been enough.

You are right about the budget too but HBO should grant a bigger budget for the last 2 seasons of the show. It's so stupid how the story is handicapped and dictated by the budget.
HBO has their priorities in order don't they? They had already been developing that ridiculous romance and that was just consummation of it before one of them dies to make that loss feel more tragic.

As for Edmure, I guess so, but what's the point or necessity of that? IF he returns later, it can easily be assumed that Arya, or his wife, (or anyone really) just freed him once his captors were slain, and skip the mundane steps of depicting that, just as they didn't need to show the Dothraki actually debarking from ships onto Westeros proper for their attack to work last ep.

Their budget has increased steadily and they have been spending more per episode especially now as ordinary drama is giving way to more action scenes --which was inevitable as it's been building to this from the outset. Dragons, and big battles require most of it.
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:54 PM   #191
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Default Re: A song of ice and fire = Jon Snow & Dany?

There is a possibility that Edmure is imprisoned somewhere the Lannister's control, in which case he and his family may make another appearance as Lannister hostages.

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Old 08-12-2017, 03:54 PM   #192
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Default Re: A song of ice and fire = Jon Snow & Dany?

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Dany hasn't been stopped by anything because it's not on the table yet, but it seems highly doubtful that any other marriage prospect will be considered.

Daario was dumped as a hindrance to potential political unions in Westeros -that was specifically written in as the beginning for setting one up.

Jon quickly arrives on Dragonstone and now Dany and Jon are sharing ample screen time together, and that's setup part two. Jon has maintained his status as an equal, a monarch who will not bend the knee and become a vassal. That sets him above any other lord in Westeros.

So despite what Vile One or anyone else may opine on the matter, D&D (and perhaps GRRM too, if they are extrapolating from him for this pairing) are clearly steering toward this outcome, and they are not held back by Jon's "bastard" status, especially because he really isn't one and that will be revealed soon enough!
Agreed. And again I think Dany asking him to bend the knee was her subconscious implication of that. Maybe Davos or Tyrion, or maybe even Missandei will bring up marriage as an option for alliance?

I kinda have the feeling that Tyrion is falling for Dany too, though. That look of concern on his face when Drogon was falling from the sky seemed like one of love.

Also yeah, GRRM said that he revealed 3 big shocking scenes to the writers of the show, one of them was hold the door, another was burning Princess Shireen alive, and the final one was the ending, so..

although I have heard that early drafts of asoiaf had Jon ending up with Arya. I don't know if there's any truth to that.
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HBO has their priorities in order don't they? They had already been developing that ridiculous romance and that was just consummation of it before one of them dies to make that loss feel more tragic.

As for Edmure, I guess so, but what's the point or necessity of that? IF he returns later, it can easily be assumed that Arya, or his wife, (or anyone really) just freed him once his captors were slain, and skip the mundane steps of depicting that, just as they didn't need to show the Dothraki actually debarking from ships onto Westeros proper for their attack to work last ep.

Their budget has increased steadily and they have been spending more per episode especially now as ordinary drama is giving way to more action scenes --which was inevitable as it's been building to this from the outset. Dragons, and big battles require most of it.
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Honestly I don't mind the GW x Missandei romance since GW is my favorite character, but nudity in general I find to be gratuitous and degrading. But yeah, everyone is thinking that one of them will die in the end.

As for Edmure, the reason why it's necessary because it turns into a plot hole if Arya doesn't rescue him. And that's really all there is to it; the reason why we're having this conversation is because of it. It wouldn't even have to be a long scene; hell, they don't even have to have the actor, I guess. Just have Arya mention that "Yeah after I killed the Freys, I freed Uncle Edmure."

Last season's budget was $100 million, yeah? So is this season's budget higher than that?

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Old 08-12-2017, 03:55 PM   #193
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There is a possibility that Edmure is imprisoned somewhere the Lannister's control, in which case he and his family may make another appearance as Lannister hostages.
that's a good point, emergency awesome said that at the end of last season, Jaime ordered Edmure to be taken prisoner all the way over at Casterly Rock. But, what would the Unsullied make of a Westerosi prisoner, though? I'd imagine they'd either kill him because they don't have respect for any Westerosi people or they would just leave him there for the same reason.

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Old 08-12-2017, 04:23 PM   #194
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There is a possibility that Edmure is imprisoned somewhere the Lannister's control, in which case he and his family may make another appearance as Lannister hostages.
I'd say the chances of that are virtually nil since Walder Frey explicitly told Jaime that "Edmure is back in his cell" in the Season 6 finale, shortly before he was slain by Arya.

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Old 08-12-2017, 04:59 PM   #195
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I kinda have the feeling that Tyrion is falling for Dany too, though. That look of concern on his face when Drogon was falling from the sky seemed like one of love.
Dany tends to inspire devotion and love from her followers, particularly in the inner circle. I think Tyrion cares about her, but I haven't seen anything to suggest it's more than that.

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As for Edmure, the reason why it's necessary because it turns into a plot hole if Arya doesn't rescue him. And that's really all there is to it; the reason why we're having this conversation is because of it. It wouldn't even have to be a long scene; hell, they don't even have to have the actor, I guess. Just have Arya mention that "Yeah after I killed the Freys, I freed Uncle Edmure."
There's a marked difference between a "plot hole" and a "loose end". At this point Ed more qualifies as the latter and a minor one at that because he is not integral to the unfoldment of the endgame. He's been a bit-player at best, and so even if he's left out of the rest of the story it will still resolve without his absence posing any kind of serious issue.

And as I noted, his captors are dead, so he doesn't need to be "rescued" per se before he makes his next appearance, if he does. There's no one left to object to opening the door so that he can reunite with his wife and son -in fact his wife would likely do it. Mundane steps like this can occur between the lines and be logically assumed, and these should not be categorized as plot holes.

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Last season's budget was $100 million, yeah? So is this season's budget higher than that?
And that was the highest yet with a $10M average per episode. Reportedly the budget is about the same, but with fewer episodes the price for each is about $14M.

The other concern is the time budget. It takes several years (and substantially more money per minute) to finish an FX-laden fantasy drama like the Hobbit or LoTR films that's only about 3 hours long. Contrast that to an 8 hour GoT season with only a year to work on it, yet still trying to match movie quality FX standards! That's one reason this season is airing a little later than usual and they are saying season 8 may take a little longer as well. But the Dragons and battles are soaking it all up.


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Old 08-12-2017, 05:13 PM   #196
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Agreed. And again I think Dany asking him to bend the knee was her subconscious implication of that. Maybe Davos or Tyrion, or maybe even Missandei will bring up marriage as an option for alliance?

I kinda have the feeling that Tyrion is falling for Dany too, though. That look of concern on his face when Drogon was falling from the sky seemed like one of love.

Also yeah, GRRM said that he revealed 3 big shocking scenes to the writers of the show, one of them was hold the door, another was burning Princess Shireen alive, and the final one was the ending, so..

although I have heard that early drafts of asoiaf had Jon ending up with Arya. I don't know if there's any truth to that.
Honestly I don't mind the GW x Missandei romance since GW is my favorite character, but nudity in general I find to be gratuitous and degrading. But yeah, everyone is thinking that one of them will die in the end.

As for Edmure, the reason why it's necessary because it turns into a plot hole if Arya doesn't rescue him. And that's really all there is to it; the reason why we're having this conversation is because of it. It wouldn't even have to be a long scene; hell, they don't even have to have the actor, I guess. Just have Arya mention that "Yeah after I killed the Freys, I freed Uncle Edmure."

Last season's budget was $100 million, yeah? So is this season's budget higher than that?
I've been annoyed by some of the nudity on this show because yes, it can get unnecessary and gratuitous at times.

But in the case of Missendai and Grey Worm, I was fine with it. Whether it needed to be there for plot relevancy or not, it was a sweet scene between the two I thought.

Of course if they're willing to be that "steamy" with those two, then it'll be interesting to see how far they go with Jon/Dany in that regard.

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Old 08-12-2017, 06:16 PM   #197
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Default Re: A song of ice and fire = Jon Snow & Dany?

IF Edmure Tully were still alive, wouldn't he still have a binding marriage to Frey's daughter? Unless something happened to her.

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Old 08-12-2017, 06:23 PM   #198
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Default Re: A song of ice and fire = Jon Snow & Dany?

He's got a child with Roslin Frey, and Arya made a point of only killing "every Frey who means a damn thing," which seems to exclude almost all the women.

And in feudal times, it's not all that unusual to find that you've got a baby cousin who's blood related to someone you hate.

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Old 08-12-2017, 06:36 PM   #199
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Default Re: A song of ice and fire = Jon Snow & Dany?

Quote:
Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
He's got a child with Roslin Frey, and Arya made a point of only killing "every Frey who means a damn thing," which seems to exclude almost all the women.

And in feudal times, it's not all that unusual to find that you've got a baby cousin who's blood related to someone you hate.
Yeah but you know who knows how she is doing after the whole Frey massacre.

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Old 08-13-2017, 05:59 PM   #200
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