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Old 07-08-2013, 09:27 PM   #276
Thundercrack85
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Default Re: Ender's Game

Well that's not a good comparison. I mean, there's right and wrong. Giving people benefits they deserve, vs trying to ruin lives.

The only real way to change a man's mind, is through his pocket book. Or at least his actions. Hate people all you want in private, but when you start passing laws, then we got a problem.

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Old 07-08-2013, 09:32 PM   #277
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Default Re: Ender's Game

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Originally Posted by I SEE SPIDEY View Post
It's not about Freedom of Speech. Nobody is stopping him from saying that he wants gay sex (and any sex he doesn't like) outlawed and nobody is stopping him from saying that gay people should be locked up. A group of people are just saying that they don't want to put money in his pockets, donate to his anti gay crusade by putting money in his pockets because they disagree with his opinions. Freedom of Speech does not mean freedom from criticism.
I don't want to argue, so we'll have to agree to disagree about the Freedom of Speech part.

But regarding the boycott, it DOES work if implemented correctly. Just this year Card was released from his contract to pen a new Superman story for DC Comics due to fan backlash about his same beliefs.

That protest made sense, it only hurt him.

It's not like DC won't make that Superman comic now, they just won't do it with him.

But look at the petition itself:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Do you really want to give this guy your money?

Ender’s Game, Orson Scott Card’s 1985 bestseller, is now a major motion picture from Summit Entertainment, opening Friday, November 1, 2013. Even as the film’s marketing campaign scrambles to distance the film from the author’s controversial reputation, Summit is angling Ender’s Game to be the next big sci-fi blockbuster, potentially making an all-new fortune for NOM-board member Card.

Skip Ender’s Game is a call to action. Do NOT see this movie! Do not buy a ticket at the theater, do not purchase the DVD, do not watch it on-demand. Ignore all merchandise and toys. However much you may have admired his books, keep your money out of Orson Scott Card’s pockets.

What You Can Do:

Sign the Skip Ender’s Game pledge and keep your money away from Orson Scott Card and anti-gay activists.

Carry on the conversation! Let your friends know what Orson Scott Card really stands for and where their money is really going if they see Ender’s Game.
On Friday, November 1, instead of seeing the movie, attend a Skip Ender’s Game event with your friends — or create one! Geeks OUT is hosting Skip Ender’s Game events in Chicago, Dallas, New York, Orlando, Seattle, and Toronto.

You can take positive action by supporting local, state, or national marriage equality and gay rights organizations. Donate what you would have spent on a movie ticket or volunteer your time.

By pledging to Skip Ender’s Game, we can send a clear and serious message to Card and those that do business with his brand of anti-gay activism — whatever he’s selling, we’re not buying. The queer geek community will not subsidize his fear-mongering and religious bullying. We will not pay him to demean, insult, and oppress us.

- See more at: http://skipendersgame.com/#sthash.7f1CmQAG.dpuf


They're making it seem like this is Card's movie, and the profit of it goes into his pocket. Not once to they mention that maybe people shouldn't support his books or comics. It's all focused on the movie, which won't hurt Card it will just hurt the studio + the people who worked on it.

It's the classic case of a thoughtful concept with short-sighted execution.

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Pre-release predictions: BvS OW pred: $165m / Second weekend drop: 70% / WW total: $850m

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Old 07-08-2013, 09:35 PM   #278
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Default Re: Ender's Game

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Bingo. I worked for a company that had religious groups calling for boycotts of our products because we had the nerve to extend health benefits for same-sex partners. But why should I lose my job because you don't like a policy that I had no control over (which I also completely supported)?

That's what it comes down to.

It's like the Chik-Fil-A protest last year. Yes, the CEO is a jackass. But why punish the kids trying to pay for college, or people supporting their families working at their restaurants with those kinds of boycotts?

I'd rather channel my energy towards positive projects - the Trevor Project, GLAAD, BC/EFA, etc., then waste my time organizing a boycott.
I haven't purchased any of Scott's books since I learned about the extent he's taken his beliefs. And that's hard for me to do because Enchantment is one of my top 3 favorite novels of all time and I don't own a copy.

You know what would make sense? Asking people to not buy the newly released hardcover and paperback novelizations of ender's game. The profits of those DO go directly to Card's pocket, and if that movement is large enough it will send a clear message to the publisher.

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Old 07-08-2013, 09:37 PM   #279
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Default Re: Ender's Game

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Originally Posted by Poni_Boy View Post
I haven't purchased any of Scott's books since I learned about the extent he's taken his beliefs. And that's hard for me to do because Enchantment is one of my top 3 favorite novels of all time and I don't own a copy.

You know what would make sense? Asking people to not buy the newly released hardcover and paperback novelizations of ender's game. The profits of those DO go directly to Card's pocket, and if that movement is large enough it will send a clear message to the publisher.
Why not nab a used copy so he gets no profits from it?

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Old 07-08-2013, 09:43 PM   #280
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Default Re: Ender's Game

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Why not nab a used copy so he gets no profits from it?
Matter of principle. Someone at some point bought the book when it was new. I even said no to the free press copies Harper was going to send me.

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Old 07-08-2013, 09:51 PM   #281
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i still didn't agree with dc boycott towards card he is a brilliant sci fi writer and would of loved to see what he could of done with superman he makes a living writing books so they bully him out of a job

it just came across as being a bully if you don't like his views ignore him

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:00 PM   #282
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I believe that's called karma.

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:06 PM   #283
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Default Re: Ender's Game

Yes, the poor multimillionaire got his in the end. Karma.

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How Rotten Tomatoes works / How studios make money / What is front-loading?

Pre-release predictions: BvS OW pred: $165m / Second weekend drop: 70% / WW total: $850m

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:06 PM   #284
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it's karma to have personal views he an he is devout christian and was raised as one

the bible say homosexuality is a sin who are they to say his beliefs are wrong and the bible is wrong

i dont agree with his views but he is in his right

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:09 PM   #285
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Default Re: Ender's Game

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Originally Posted by Project862006 View Post
it's karma to have personal views he an he is devout christian and was raised as one

the bible say homosexuality is a sin who are they to say his beliefs are wrong and the bible is wrong

i dont agree with his views but he is in his right
That's no excuse.

But, again, no one is saying he can't do this or that. Just that he has to face the consequences of being a hateful bigot.

If you think that's bullying... I don't know where to begin.

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:11 PM   #286
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Default Re: Ender's Game

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Originally Posted by Poni_Boy View Post
I don't want to argue, so we'll have to agree to disagree about the Freedom of Speech part.

But regarding the boycott, it DOES work if implemented correctly. Just this year Card was released from his contract to pen a new Superman story for DC Comics due to fan backlash about his same beliefs.

That protest made sense, it only hurt him.

It's not like DC won't make that Superman comic now, they just won't do it with him.

But look at the petition itself:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Do you really want to give this guy your money?

Ender’s Game, Orson Scott Card’s 1985 bestseller, is now a major motion picture from Summit Entertainment, opening Friday, November 1, 2013. Even as the film’s marketing campaign scrambles to distance the film from the author’s controversial reputation, Summit is angling Ender’s Game to be the next big sci-fi blockbuster, potentially making an all-new fortune for NOM-board member Card.

Skip Ender’s Game is a call to action. Do NOT see this movie! Do not buy a ticket at the theater, do not purchase the DVD, do not watch it on-demand. Ignore all merchandise and toys. However much you may have admired his books, keep your money out of Orson Scott Card’s pockets.

What You Can Do:

Sign the Skip Ender’s Game pledge and keep your money away from Orson Scott Card and anti-gay activists.

Carry on the conversation! Let your friends know what Orson Scott Card really stands for and where their money is really going if they see Ender’s Game.
On Friday, November 1, instead of seeing the movie, attend a Skip Ender’s Game event with your friends — or create one! Geeks OUT is hosting Skip Ender’s Game events in Chicago, Dallas, New York, Orlando, Seattle, and Toronto.

You can take positive action by supporting local, state, or national marriage equality and gay rights organizations. Donate what you would have spent on a movie ticket or volunteer your time.

By pledging to Skip Ender’s Game, we can send a clear and serious message to Card and those that do business with his brand of anti-gay activism — whatever he’s selling, we’re not buying. The queer geek community will not subsidize his fear-mongering and religious bullying. We will not pay him to demean, insult, and oppress us.

- See more at: http://skipendersgame.com/#sthash.7f1CmQAG.dpuf


They're making it seem like this is Card's movie, and the profit of it goes into his pocket. Not once to they mention that maybe people shouldn't support his books or comics. It's all focused on the movie, which won't hurt Card it will just hurt the studio + the people who worked on it.

It's the classic case of a thoughtful concept with short-sighted execution.
I agree that a boycott of his books would make more sense. I don't get how you disagree with me about Freedom of speech though. Should I be forced to support Mel Gibson's movies even though I think he is a disgusting racist? I mean people have a right to not see a film or read a book for whatever reason they please.

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:14 PM   #287
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maybe it is just me but why cant people separate the man from the work

i am a pro wrestling fan and chris benoit murderer but i will still watch his wrestling matches because his work was phenomenal

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:16 PM   #288
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Default Re: Ender's Game

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Originally Posted by Project862006 View Post
maybe it is just me but why cant people separate the man from the work

i am a pro wrestling fan and chris benoit murderer but i will still watch his wrestling matches because his work was phenomenal
I dunno, I could never enjoy Wagner after finding out what a racist ***** he was.

And Card ain't no literary Wagner either.

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:20 PM   #289
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alot of beloved people turn out a way you didn't expect

was'nt walt disney a racist?

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:21 PM   #290
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Default Re: Ender's Game

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maybe it is just me but why cant people separate the man from the work

i am a pro wrestling fan and chris benoit murderer but i will still watch his wrestling matches because his work was phenomenal
The vast majority of the time I do separate the A-hole from his or her work but I don't think other people are wrong if they don't want to. Different strokes for different folks.

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:22 PM   #291
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Default Re: Ender's Game

I can usually separate a persons work from their personal views. I think Tom Cruise is nuttier than squirrel poop, but I dig his movies.

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:25 PM   #292
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alot of beloved people turn out a way you didn't expect

was'nt walt disney a racist?
Not exceptionally, by most reliable accounts.

I mean it's one thing to be a product of your time, another to be... Henry Ford.

It does get kind of tricky with cars... or really anything German. Was kind of weird to learn that the company that built the elevators in my school helped build Auschwitz.

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:26 PM   #293
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Default Re: Ender's Game

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I agree that a boycott of his books would make more sense. I don't get how you disagree with me about Freedom of speech though. Should I be forced to support Mel Gibson's movies even though I think he is a disgusting racist? I mean people have a right to not see a film or read a book for whatever reason they please.
You shouldn't be forced to spend your money on anything. But any viable petition (no matter how subjective of the intended result) should be presented from two sides.

What's happening here is the people who started the petition are going for the "shock value" revelation that OSC is a bigot and the best way to show you, personally, support gay rights is to A) not see the movie, and B) donate the money you would have spent on a ticket to a LGBT organization.

But not once do they say that Card isn't involved with the production of the movie. Not once do they say he isn't a producer. Not once do they ask that people not support where he actually gets his income: book sales. They're harping on the movie, because the movie will get headlines.

Again, they are forgetting that the film making process is not one guy, and plenty of people who made the movie -- many of which are undoubtedly gay themselves -- will be negatively affected by a short-sighted boycott.

If they would have presented all the facts clearly, and then asked for a justifiable protest against the artist himself (NOT the art, which has no negative connotations to the LGBT community) then it would actually make sense. Right now, it doesn't.

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Pre-release predictions: SS OW pred: $130m / Second weekend drop: 65% / WW total: $550m
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:27 PM   #294
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I'm Religious and I have no problem with Card being Religious what-so-ever. I just don't think Card or myself or anyone is immune from criticism.

I'm not disagreeing that the subject of their boycott is misguided because it is in fact misguided.

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:27 PM   #295
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alot of beloved people turn out a way you didn't expect

was'nt walt disney a racist?
Coco Chanel and Hugo Boss were Nazi supporters. I don't see people protesting their products.

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How Rotten Tomatoes works / How studios make money / What is front-loading?

Pre-release predictions: BvS OW pred: $165m / Second weekend drop: 70% / WW total: $850m

Pre-release predictions: SS OW pred: $130m / Second weekend drop: 65% / WW total: $550m
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:29 PM   #296
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Like I said, if you hold Germans to this standard, you have to write off the entire country.

Maybe once I sell my car.

That country has so much blood on its hands...

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:34 PM   #297
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Umm, no. Hugo Boss was a certified member of the SS and vocal supporter of Adolf Hitler. He even designed and produced the uniforms for the SS and Hitler Youth, making a huge profit from it.

Chanel became a Nazi spy after the occupation of France and she worked undercover for the head of SS intelligence.

They were Nazis through and through, yet you don't see anyone in the LGBT community vocally against their brands.

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How Rotten Tomatoes works / How studios make money / What is front-loading?

Pre-release predictions: BvS OW pred: $165m / Second weekend drop: 70% / WW total: $850m

Pre-release predictions: SS OW pred: $130m / Second weekend drop: 65% / WW total: $550m
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:35 PM   #298
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Between Martin Luther and that... well, damn.

To be fair though, they're all dead. Not saying I'd ever buy their brands, but it's a bit different, than Card still being at conventions, saying gay people are vile.

Now if Hugo Boss was on the runway spouting anti-Semitic drivel... then okay.

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:41 PM   #299
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So a guy who is vocal about his religious beliefs (beliefs that were the norm when he was raised and strongly in place when this country was founded) is worse than two Nazis who built their empires thanks to Hilter's paychecks? C'mon now. The dude might be an idiot, and misguided, but so is all this "karma" crap against him. My mom was a Catholic nun for 10 years before she left the convent and eventually married my dad. She's strict roman Catholic who doesn't believe in gay marriage. Does that mean our entire family deserves hatred and we should be damned to ill-success because that's how she was raised?

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Pre-release predictions: BvS OW pred: $165m / Second weekend drop: 70% / WW total: $850m

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:43 PM   #300
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Never said it was worse. Said (or implied rather,) it was enough.

There's a difference between not believing in gay marriage, and wanting to lock people up for being gay. Not to mention all the other crap he has said and supported.

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