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View Poll Results: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...
Love it! 92 36.51%
It's okay... 56 22.22%
Hate it! 104 41.27%
Voters: 252. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-08-2013, 10:32 PM   #901
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Default Re: I actually liked The Mandarin in Iron Man 3

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but Mandarin was never a red scare villain except at the very very beginning. Frankly if their had been any Asian connection it might have softened the blow. There was never any reason for Super Osama or Killain to use the name Mandarin.

No offense but I'm tired of twists that uproot what I actually wanted to see being called brilliant. I'll give you though, it was one of the least offensive things about the film.

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Old 08-08-2013, 11:43 PM   #902
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Asteroid-Man View Post
Have you seen Iron Man 2?
Iron Man 2 may be an internet whipping boy, but compared to IM3 it's a masterpiece.


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Old 08-09-2013, 12:42 AM   #903
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Doc Ock View Post
I love Spidey 3 and Iron Man 3.
Same yo!

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Originally Posted by guitarking View Post
Iron Man 2 may be an internet whipping boy, but compared to IM3 it's a masterpiece.
Lol yeah with a villain that sits around 2/3rds of the movie doing nothing, barely anything for tony to do the whole movie, and a regression of the titular hero's character development.

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Old 08-09-2013, 03:41 AM   #904
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by A Necessary Evil View Post



Lol yeah with a villain that sits around 2/3rds of the movie doing nothing, barely anything for tony to do the whole movie, and a regression of the titular hero's character development.
Still way better than...

1.The Mandarin twist
2.Tony's tech malfunctioning more often than working
3.The Extremis were cheesy CW channel type villains
4.The scenes with the kid
5.Too much remote operation of the suit
6.Pepper's predictably fake death
7.Tony's lack of reaction after losing the woman he loves
8.PTSD anxiety went on too long
9.Kingsley stumbling around for comic relief was cringeworthy
10.The quick fix heart operation for Tony
11.The quick fix Extremis removal for Pepper
12.Tony foolishly giving his address to terrorists and everyone else
13.Fake Iron Patriot easily getting past Secret Service
14.No use of great rock songs


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Old 08-09-2013, 03:43 AM   #905
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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They should have cast Benedict Cumberbatch. Everyone would have defended him playing an Asian.

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Old 08-09-2013, 05:08 AM   #906
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

*How to fix Iron Man 3*
1. Don't make it into a family friendly comedy, keep the tone and feel of IM1
2. Please have less jokes in it, it ruins the serious moments.
3. Remove jokes about Dora The Explorer and Downtown Abbey and I don't need to explain that.
4. Don't make it feel like a buddy cop film at times because it's an Iron Man film.
5. Don't turn your bad guy into a joke
6. If your going to do the twist do it sooner and have Killain look like him and give him the rings.
7. Use Extremis (is that how you spell it?) better, i.e Have Tony's armor upgrade to it but this is rather minor and perhaps something I would personally like to see.
8. Having Tony get panic attacks during about New York isn't exploring his character.
9. Don't put a child in it...
The last and most important step of all...
10. Hire someone who can direct a decent comic book flick that sticks to the source material and kick Shane Black in the stomach on the way out.

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Old 08-09-2013, 07:28 AM   #907
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by guitarking View Post
Iron Man 2 may be an internet whipping boy, but compared to IM3 it's a masterpiece.
Agree. I really like it on its own merits. It's fun and engaging. I felt like I was in the film. Watching IM3 I was constantly thinking, "Watching a movie...watching a movie...." mixed with, "They wrote THAT into this movie?!"

Regarding IM3, I was thinking...Tony getting the arc reactor removed is such a HUGE plot point. You'd think they'd want to spend some time on it. Instead we got, "...and oh yeah...I got the arc reactor removed...." *End Credits*

It was almost like a parody/piss-take.

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Old 08-09-2013, 12:22 PM   #908
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

Man, this thread has more humor in it than all of Iron Man 3.

First off, the tone in Iron Man 3 was not radically different than either of the Favaeru films.

Tony Stark not being in the suit is such a non-issue, its like bickering about Superman's undies. All the action scenes were among the best in the genre, even and especially the ones were he wasn't even wearing armor at all.

The arc-reactor was coming out one way or another, just like in the books. I was under the impression he reversed engineered Extremis to go through the procedure, but I believe one of the film makers said that is not the case. Either way, what does it matter? This film clearly brings home the point that Tony Stark is Iron Man, regardless, in fact it explicitly and literally states it right there at the end.

Nothing more can be said about the Mandarin that hasn't already, I understand how some might have been expecting something else from the trailers but the way it played out was great. I love the how in Trevor's reveal, Tony is as shocked and confused as all the audience.

There was a few stories during the Initiative era where Tony was Extremis-enabled, but due to whatever reasons the plot always had him without the upperhand and forced into his older armors, (Stark Disassembled, The Haunting). I would read them and think "Man, I wish Tony was in the Extremis armor tearing up these foo's", but in the end it mattered not because the stories were still awesome. Some gripes with the film remind me of that scenario.

And in my opinion, for the record:
IM3>SM3>IM2


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Old 08-09-2013, 01:09 PM   #909
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by guitarking View Post
1.The Mandarin twist
Nothing wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by guitarking View Post
5.Too much remote operation of the suit
So what?

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Originally Posted by guitarking View Post
9.Kingsley stumbling around for comic relief was cringeworthy
Isn't that covered by #1?

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Originally Posted by guitarking View Post
14.No use of great rock songs
Yes, a superhero film without rock songs is guaranteed to be a let-down.

I'm looking at you, The Dark Knight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder
6. If your going to do the twist do it sooner
I don't know where this imaginary rule comes from, unless it was invented on the fly for the purpose of condemning TDKR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder
3. Remove jokes about Dora The Explorer and Downtown Abbey and I don't need to explain that.
Downton, not Downtown.

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Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder
9. Don't put a child in it...
If some people can't stand seeing a child on screen, is it possible that the problem is with those people as opposed to the film?

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Old 08-09-2013, 05:02 PM   #910
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Arawn Fenn View Post
Yes, a superhero film without rock songs is guaranteed to be a let-down.

I'm looking at you, The Dark Knight.
Pay attention, we're talking about Iron Man movies not the Dark Knight series. And have you not seen IM1 and 2? Tons of AC/DC and Black Sabbath the way it should be.

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Old 08-09-2013, 05:28 PM   #911
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

I for one hate AC/DC, and just because they were in the first film doesn't mean they need to be heard every time Iron Man suits up.

Black Sabbath is cool, but again, we know we're watching Iron Man, don't need a reminder from Ozzy.

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Old 08-09-2013, 06:44 PM   #912
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

Are people complaining about a lack of Rock Music?

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Old 08-09-2013, 06:48 PM   #913
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Are people complaining about a lack of Rock Music?
Some one somewhere has complained about anything you can mention....tis the internet.....

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Old 08-09-2013, 06:51 PM   #914
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Some one somewhere has complained about anything you can mention....tis the internet.....
Our attitude to CB films has changed quite a bit.

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Old 08-09-2013, 07:16 PM   #915
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

Would you like the Mandarin better if it was spoiled on trailers?

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Old 08-09-2013, 07:40 PM   #916
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

I missed a little AC/DC in the soundtrack,too.But I don't think it makes the film any better/worse.

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Old 08-09-2013, 08:34 PM   #917
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

Quote:
First off, the tone in Iron Man 3 was not radically different than either of the Favaeru films.
I disagree...I found IM3 to be a lot more meandering and less colorful, literally as well as figuratively. The tones were so muted compared to the Favreau films.


Quote:
Tony Stark not being in the suit is such a non-issue, its like bickering about Superman's undies. All the action scenes were among the best in the genre, even and especially the ones were he wasn't even wearing armor at all.
No, it's like Superman hardly wearing the suit and sticking with the Clark Kent persona through most of the film. If the film had been called "Clark Kent: Man About Town" you'd have a great point but in film called "Superman"...you want some Superman. Remote-controlled Supermandroids don't count. Same with IM3

RDJ paraphrased: "It's neat when Tony and Rhodey are mucking around but I always think 'Man I can't wait until they get into the suits'."


Quote:
The arc-reactor was coming out one way or another, just like in the books. I was under the impression he reversed engineered Extremis to go through the procedure, but I believe one of the film makers said that is not the case. Either way, what does it matter? This film clearly brings home the point that Tony Stark is Iron Man, regardless, in fact it explicitly and literally states it right there at the end.
The arc reactor was always coming out like in the books just like The Mandarin was always a washed up junkie actor just like in the books. Or if you wanna go with Shane Black logic - The Mandarin was always Killian who funded AIM and co-opted The Ten Rings just like in the books.

Having the arc reactor removed as an afterthought is akin to Superman revealing he had found a way to overcome his weakness to kryptonite immediately before the end credits of a Superman movie.

"I'll always be Clark Kent and I'll always be Superman and kryptonite don't bother me no more."


Quote:
Nothing more can be said about the Mandarin that hasn't already, I understand how some might have been expecting something else from the trailers but the way it played out was great. I love the how in Trevor's reveal, Tony is as shocked and confused as all the audience.
Yeah I really wanted the trailer version of the movie. In other words, what I assumed the movie would be. I don't like audience manipulation.


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Old 08-09-2013, 08:46 PM   #918
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Would you like the Mandarin better if it was spoiled on trailers?
A thousand times yes. But the way he was portrayed in the trailer is a MUCH more interesting and threatening villain.


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Originally Posted by Human Torch View Post
I missed a little AC/DC in the soundtrack,too.But I don't think it makes the film any better/worse.
I think what people are missing are the kick-butt triumphant moments which were often accompanied by AC/DC but which would have been fine on their own if they had been there at all.

Like the landing in Avengers when he repulsors Loki in the face. Massive goodwill and savoring of the character there. "Shooooooot to thriiiillllllll" Better believe it.

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Old 08-09-2013, 11:36 PM   #919
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by guitarking View Post
Still way better than...
Quote:
1.The Mandarin twist
Maybe we should have gotten little old Ben Kingsley being a fu-manchu with Power Rings. LOL.

Quote:
2.Tony's tech malfunctioning more often than working
Adds a sense of urgency

Quote:
3.The Extremis were cheesy CW channel type villains
As are all Marvel villains, they're cartoony.

Quote:
4.The scenes with the kid
Why?

Quote:
6.Pepper's predictably fake death
This isn't TDK, this is the MCU, which are fun movies, not superhero dramas.

Quote:
7.Tony's lack of reaction after losing the woman he loves
He looked super pissed and went to beat the crap out of Aldrich...yeah totally no reaction at all.

Quote:
8.PTSD anxiety went on too long
Maybe instead of completely developing it, they should have underdeveloped it, because PTSD always just goes away.

Quote:
9.Kingsley stumbling around for comic relief was cringeworthy
That's basically covered in No 1.

Quote:
10.The quick fix heart operation for Tony
You are aware he got it taken out in the comics too, right?


Quote:
11.The quick fix Extremis removal for Pepper
It was already shown Tony was brilliant, and knew how to use Extremis in the right way, so why wouldn't he be able to cure it?

Quote:
12.Tony foolishly giving his address to terrorists and everyone else
A superhero, pulling a stupid move out of anger and being upset? Never seen that one before.

Quote:
13.Fake Iron Patriot easily getting past Secret Service
I don't see why they would feel the need to strip Rhodey down, but whatever, I could let you have that one.

Quote:
14.No use of great rock songs

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Old 08-10-2013, 01:19 AM   #920
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

Quote:
Maybe we should have gotten little old Ben Kingsley being a fu-manchu with Power Rings. LOL.
Nah, just the guy they teased us with in the trailer. Ex-CIA or ex-military scholar of warfare disillusioned with the American powers that be due to his perceived betrayal, with a mind to "teach" his former country through acts of terrorism. PERFECT villain. I was so excited they had (for all appearances) gone there.

Quote:
Adds a sense of urgency
Not when it's played for laughs. From the silly slapstick suit up at the beginning to the suit constantly falling apart, to JARVIS's wrong cranberry, they made everything about Mark 42 look goofy with the exception of the helicopter attack sequence.

Quote:
Why?
The writers couldn't decide if he was a genius or stupid.

Has a garage-workshop, helps Stark recharge the Mark 42 armor, yet..."Like a mechanic?!"....

Quote:
This isn't TDK, this is the MCU, which are fun movies, not superhero dramas.
That's fine. I have no issue with Pepper's fake death per se and I'm glad she didn't actually die for real as per pre-release rumors BUT:

Quote:
He looked super pissed and went to beat the crap out of Aldrich...yeah totally no reaction at all.
That's kind of a stereotypical superhero reaction. "NOW I'M REALLY MAD!!" and I don't think even that was what we got.

It was the perfect opportunity for a character moment instead of "Oh man you're gonna get it now.....Oopsy suit fell apart again!!!!"


Picture: Tony witnesses the apparent death of Pepper who is his world and as he said, the one thing he can't live without...cue HUGE PTSD attack...much bigger than any we've seen onscreen so far...he's shaken and shaking...Killian is closing in taunting him..."I would have caught her"....

Stark isn't fighting back anymore which thoroughly and obviously amuses Killian...as he continues to taunt Stark as he looks down at the formerly unflappable and confident genius billionaire playboy now trembling like a child...Killian smiles...

*cue flashback of Killian pitching AIM to Tony in the elevator which we haven't seen until now*

An explosion at the docks serves as our transition to Tony, obviously broken, beyond repair, having a flashback of his own:

And now we're in Tony's mind for a second experiencing his PTSD flashback of Pepper cradling his head as she comforts him and then the moment in The Avengers when her image dissipates inside Tony's HUD as his call to her dies...suddenly...at that moment...the Mark 42 armor assembles around Stark, having just arrived and in one swift fluid motion Stark turns and...HUUUUUGE UNIBEEEAAAAM!!!!

We see Killian's body begin to smolder and then to char as he struggles against the energy force.

*Tony HUD view*

Tony's jaw is set, his grimace telling us exactly what we know he's thinking: "For her..."


.........and Killian somehow survives and so does Pepper and in my perfect world the rest of the movie plays out as we know it except for the suit destruction and arc reactor removal.

That took me like fifteen seconds to imagine. I don't get why people who do this for a living can't come up with something with a million times more emotional impact than that rather than something with a million times less.

I think the whole scene plays better as it is if you look at it like Tony figured out almost immediately that she survived.

I'll address your other points later some of which I have no problem with. Despite my feeling really let down by this movie, I really am enjoying all this debate.

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Old 08-10-2013, 01:33 AM   #921
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder View Post
Are people complaining about a lack of Rock Music?
Do people not understand that a movie's soundtrack is important to some people?

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Old 08-10-2013, 01:41 AM   #922
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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You are aware he got it taken out in the comics too, right?
IN THE MOVIE it felt rushed and tacked on.


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It was already shown Tony was brilliant, and knew how to use Extremis in the right way, so why wouldn't he be able to cure it?
It was rushed and felt like "Oh everything is just instantly fixed now and they lived happily ever after".

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Old 08-10-2013, 07:24 AM   #923
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

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IN THE MOVIE it felt rushed and tacked on.

It was rushed and felt like "Oh everything is just instantly fixed now and they lived happily ever after".

Exactly.

And regarding the no great rock songs complaint...it's become something of a trademark for Tony, and not having any now after prominent placement spanning three movies is a jarring change in tone.

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Old 08-10-2013, 09:17 AM   #924
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 1

As much as I hated Iron Man 3 for many, many legitimate reasons, the lack of ACDC isn't one of them. In fact, I feel the opposite - it's a benefit. Having music with lyrics (regardless of the type) as the background soundtrack is incredibly distracting and removes the viewer from being immersed in the film. IM3 did this with the Christmas music already. Removal of the 80's rock may be the one thing Black did right.

The musical score should be an epic instrumental, not a mishmash of cheesy, mainstream rock from decades past.

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Old 08-10-2013, 03:40 PM   #925
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Default Re: I actually liked The Mandarin in Iron Man 3

I agree with OP. If you accept that Killian really was the Mandarin, the characterization wasn't that far off. In recent years, Mandy's done most of his fighting in a business suit/half suit, much like movie-Killian, and has been very involved in the corporate world - again, just like movie-Killian. If Killian had been played by an Asian actor I don't think there would be nearly as many complaints. This is the unfortunate truth and is what changed my opinion from intense hatred to slight disappointment in the Mandarin's portrayal. I still wish we had gotten the power rings but Killian as the Mandarin could have been done much, much worse.

When I first saw IM3, I hated the movie for 7 distinct reasons and the Mandarin's adaptation was number 1. With a few months to let everything sink in, I would actually drop my complaints about the Mandarin completely. However, my anger at the other six issues (namely the tone and style of the film) make me hate Shane Black and IM3 even more. The Mandarin was the LEAST of this film's problems

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