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Old 04-04-2009, 08:06 PM   #15601
StorminNorman
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights

No, but people who already voted against Prop 8 being angry over the passing of Prop 8 isn't news. I am saying I haven't seen much indicating that should the same bill be put on the ballot, it would suffer a different fate.

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Old 04-04-2009, 08:17 PM   #15602
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights

If a pregnant teenager can marry her convicted-felon boyfriend in a shotgun wedding, why can't two gay men or two lesbians who love each other do the same? One is apparently ok in the eyes of God, but the other isn't. It's time to stop letting religion rule the world. Not everybody believes in the same thing, so the largest common denominator of religion in a country shouldn't apply to everybody. I believe we are all people. No matter what race, sexuality, or faith you claim to, we should be treated equally. Equal rights for everybody.

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Old 04-04-2009, 10:00 PM   #15603
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights

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Originally Posted by StorminNorman Returns View Post
No, but people who already voted against Prop 8 being angry over the passing of Prop 8 isn't news. I am saying I haven't seen much indicating that should the same bill be put on the ballot, it would suffer a different fate.
no but the rest of the country including others getting angry about it is. Every state has already had a prop 8 protest on the national protest day... including several countries. Many figure heads from around the world have also spoke out against prop 8. Unless your blind, or simply don't care enough to pay attention then you wouldn't know this.

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Old 04-04-2009, 10:13 PM   #15604
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Default Re: Iowa Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage

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One of the Republican senators has already declared that Iowa is going to become a "gay Mecca". I, for one, welcome our new gay rulers.
Veiled SIMPSONS reference? Sugar caves?

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Old 04-04-2009, 10:32 PM   #15605
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Default Re: Iowa Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage

How do you define a gay Mecca exactly? Every other store is an IKEA or something?

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Old 04-04-2009, 10:39 PM   #15606
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights

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Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
no but the rest of the country including others getting angry about it is. Every state has already had a prop 8 protest on the national protest day... including several countries. Many figure heads from around the world have also spoke out against prop 8. Unless your blind, or simply don't care enough to pay attention then you wouldn't know this.
Yes, but the people that were outraged about Prop 8 were the people already in your camp. I am asking how many people have changed their mind since Prop 8 passed. How many people that were anti gay marriage before Prop 8 have become pro gay marriage sense.

That's what actual progress is.

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Old 04-04-2009, 10:39 PM   #15607
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Default Re: Iowa Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage

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Originally Posted by The Guard View Post
Veiled SIMPSONS reference? Sugar caves?
Simpsons reference of course!

Also, various groups have said they won't pursue it further here, but that doesn't mean anything. However, a constitutional amendment vote would take years- so until then, there's not much they can do. One couple was married a few years ago when this whole thing started and their marriage is still legally recognized even thought no one else was able to get married until this decision was passed down.

Small victories are still victories.

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Old 04-04-2009, 10:43 PM   #15608
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights

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Originally Posted by StorminNorman Returns View Post
Yes, but the people that were outraged about Prop 8 were the people already in your camp. I am asking how many people have changed their mind since Prop 8 passed. How many people that were anti gay marriage before Prop 8 have become pro gay marriage sense.

That's what actual progress is.
well thats a person to person kinda thing, theres not really been any documentation of that... and imo it doesn't really matter. Majority should not decide the rights of a minority anyway. Those who were against gay marriage are probably still against it, those people probably wont change. It's the people that "didn't care" either way that imo do. And i've seen some of there opinions tend to lead more towards being against prop 8 after it passed.

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Old 04-04-2009, 10:56 PM   #15609
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights

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Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
well thats a person to person kinda thing, theres not really been any documentation of that... and imo it doesn't really matter. Majority should not decide the rights of a minority anyway. Those who were against gay marriage are probably still against it, those people probably wont change. It's the people that "didn't care" either way that imo do. And i've seen some of there opinions tend to lead more towards being against prop 8 after it passed.

Government type: Constituion-based federal republic; strong democratic tradition

Now, if you want to take off that last part that's fine, but that is the type of government this country has at the moment.

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Old 04-04-2009, 10:59 PM   #15610
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights

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Originally Posted by Kel View Post
Government type: Constituion-based federal republic; strong democratic tradition

Now, if you want to take off that last part that's fine, but that is the type of government this country has at the moment.
sorry, but i still don't agree. Laws are passed all the time not by popular vote, or no vote at all. If we wanted to vote on slavery back when the slaves were set free, or when women were given the right to vote, chances are the public wouldn't have voted for it at the time either. So your comment is bogus right now.

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Old 04-04-2009, 11:02 PM   #15611
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights

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Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
sorry, but i still don't agree. Laws are passed all the time not by popular vote, or no vote at all. If we wanted to vote on slavery back when the slaves were set free, or when women were given the right to vote, chances are the public wouldn't have voted for it at the time either. So your comment is bogus right now.
Hey, I haveno problem with gays being able to marry, and call it whatever thehell they want, and have every right that I enjoy. That's cool with me, all I'm saying is.....to take "majority" out of the equation totally is just not going to happen, Women's Right to vote was passed by 1 vote, which made the majority by 1. One, who almost did not vote for it, one who changed his vote at the last second.....that last portion of what I posted will always be a part of the equation. That's all I'm saying.

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Old 04-05-2009, 01:09 AM   #15612
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights

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Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
well thats a person to person kinda thing, theres not really been any documentation of that... and imo it doesn't really matter. Majority should not decide the rights of a minority anyway. Those who were against gay marriage are probably still against it, those people probably wont change. It's the people that "didn't care" either way that imo do. And i've seen some of there opinions tend to lead more towards being against prop 8 after it passed.
I really hope you are right. I truly, really, with my entire heart do.

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Old 04-05-2009, 04:40 AM   #15613
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Default Re: Iowa Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage

Good, time for them to be as miserable as everyone else , (says the single guy)

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Old 04-05-2009, 07:19 PM   #15614
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights

Quote:
Young voters push for same-sex marriage
by The Denver Post on 4/5 at 6:42 pm.




Colorado State University student Joe Peterson gushed when he talked about the 2008 elections, with Barack Obama winning the presidency and Democrat Betsy Markey knocking off Republican Congresswoman Marilyn Musgrave.

But his voice changed when he talked about another victory that night, the passage of California's Proposition 8, which banned gay marriage.

"That was such a sour spot and, as a gay man, it really seemed like the violation of the American dream," Peterson said.

That result propelled Peterson and two friends, Alex Cobell and Tara Craig, to try to give more rights to Colorado's same-sex couples.

The trio teamed up to push a 2010 ballot measure that would give gay couples all the "benefits, protections and responsibilities" provided in traditional marriage.

It's the second ballot measure filed this year by 20-somethings that deal with gay rights.

Rep. Mark Ferrandino, the legislature's first openly gay man, said he believes Proposition 8 helped influence a generation that already believes in equal rights.

"The youth are pushing the ball along," the Denver Democrat said. "It's great to see that people in all our areas of country, including the heartland, are willing to stand up for equal rights for all people."

Becoming activists

The Iowa Supreme Court legalized gay marriage Friday in a unanimous decision.

As for Peterson, he described himself and his friends as "political junkies."

Peterson, 20, of Greeley;

Cobell, 21, of Denver; and Craig, 20, of Parker, met in 2007 when they joined CSU's Young Democrats. Peterson and Craig still attend school; Cobell works in Denver.

Last year, Peterson interned with Markey's campaign, and Craig interned with the Democratic National Convention over the summer, then joined Markey's team. Cobell went to North Carolina to work on Obama's campaign.

"Oh my gosh, it was absolutely amazing," Craig said of her 2008 political experiences.

But she, Peterson and Cobell were upset by the passage of Proposition 8, which eliminated same-sex couples' right to marry.

"Gays are not second-class citizens," Craig said.

The three decided to push a ballot initiative, which was filed last month with the state's Legislative Council, the first in a series of steps to get an issue on the ballot. A legislative review of the proposal is scheduled for Tuesday.

Asked why their proposal reads as if it were written by a lawyer, Peterson said it was modeled on Referendum I, a 2006 Colorado ballot measure giving more rights and responsibilities to gay couples.

Referendum I failed 48 percent to 52 percent. That same year, voters approved Amendment 43 defining marriage in the state constitution as a union only between a man and woman. It passed 55 percent to 45 percent.

No change expected

Sen. Kevin Lundberg, R-Berthoud, who helped put Amendment 43 on the ballot, said he expects voters will make the same choices in 2010.

"I don't think the basic attitude of the people has changed," Lundberg said. "But here we go again, and again, and probably again."

Peterson, Craig and Cobell believe 2010 will be a different story.

"The younger generation is much more supportive of civil rights, and every day, someone celebrates an 18th birthday," Peterson said.

That's the sentiment echoed by Stu Allen, a 23-year-old golf club salesman who thinks gays should be allowed to marry.

Allen, of Lakewood, and his girlfriend, Crystal Russell, 21, are behind a ballot measure that would change the state constitution to recognize marriage as a union between two consenting adults.

"We have contributing, taxpaying citizens who don't have the same rights as everyone else, and that's not fair," Allen said.

The secretary of state last week OK'd the language on their signature petitions. They have six months to collect 76,047 valid voter signatures.

Story at denverpost.com
really beautiful news

and StorminNormin, this isn't exactly the proof you wanted, but it's beautiful none the less.

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Old 04-05-2009, 07:22 PM   #15615
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights

and i found this bloody hilariously brilliant!
Quote:
God Hates Fa&s church raises money for LGBT support group
by Pink News on 4/1 at 6:13 pm.
Viewed 901 times.



Members of the US Westboro Baptist Church, who chant slogans such as "fa&s burn in hell", have unintentionally raised money for a gay rights group.

LGBT activists have set up a scheme in which people are asked to donate money for every minute the Phelps family protest against gays.

The vehemently homophobic church, whose leader Fred Phelps runs GodHatesFa$s.com, turned up to picket outside the White House on Monday, calling President Obama the 'antichrist' for his support of equality.

However, Phelps and his church were met by LGBT supporters who protested against them, raising money for local group Gays and Lesbians Opposing Violence.

The scheme was thought up by Driving Equality, an organisation that has held various 'Phelps-A-Thons'.

Visitors to the website www.phelps-a-thon.comcan sponsor the Westboro Baptist Church by choosing an amount to donate for every minute the group chants slogans such as “god hates fa%s".

All of the proceeds go towards local LGBT support groups, or to Driving Equality.

Driving Equality aims to raise $25,000 (£17,374) and has already raised over $10348 (£7,192).

Some of this money is to fund founder Chris Mason's 100-day, 16,000-mile road trip through 48 states to advance LGBT equality.

There have been other 'Phelps-A-Thons' at places such as Harvard and SUNY and Mason has appealed for more, saying that he can organise the sponsoring events wherever the fundamentalist family visit.

"Let me know and I will add a Phelps-A-Thon for your community. We can work together to raise money for your local gay/straight alliance or LGBT community centre," he said.

Last month, the church threatened to picket a London primary school after it held lessons on same-sex relationships as part of LGBT History Month.

Around 30 parents took their children out of George Tomlinson School in February to protest over the curriculum.

The group stated: "God hates the UK and the Tomlinson School fa% tyranny, where conscientious parents face religious persecution for withdrawing their children on lying *** so-called history.

"This is yet another warning to the UK to repent of their manifold sins of the flesh, or perish."

Despite the threat, the group did not arrive to chant outside the school.

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Old 04-05-2009, 07:26 PM   #15616
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Absolutely wonderful. Honestly I think bills like that are much more realistic than marriage laws. Objecting a bill that makes the civil union the legal equivalent of marriage takes away the argument of ruining the sanctity of marriage - basically forcing those against the measure to admit they just hate gay people.

Brilliant.

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Old 04-05-2009, 07:35 PM   #15617
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Lightbulb Re: Discussion: Gay Rights

Welcome to the boards Blitzkrieg Bop!

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Old 04-05-2009, 08:12 PM   #15618
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights

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Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
and i found this bloody hilariously brilliant!
****ing genius!

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Old 04-05-2009, 08:44 PM   #15619
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights

Maybe Phelps really is doing the Lord's work without realizing it

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Old 04-05-2009, 10:08 PM   #15620
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Default Re: Discussion: Gay Rights

I hope this hasn't been posted yet, but I found an article that's attempted to predict how Iowans and other Americans would vote on a gay marriage ban in the present and into the near future. The author concluded:

Quote:
So what does this mean for Iowa? The state has roughly average levels of religiosity, including a fair number of white evangelicals, and the model predicts that if Iowans voted on a marriage ban today, it would pass with 56.0 percent of the vote. By 2012, however, the model projects a toss-up: 50.4 percent of Iowans voting to approve the ban, and 49.6 percent opposed. In 2013 and all subsequent years, the model thinks the marriage ban would fail.
Quote:
The model predicts that by 2012, almost half of the 50 states would vote against a marriage ban, including several states that had previously voted to ban it. In fact, voters in Oregon, Nevada and Alaska (which Sarah Palin aside, is far more libertarian than culturally conservative) might already have second thoughts about the marriage bans that they'd previously passed.

By 2016, only a handful of states in the Deep South would vote to ban gay marriage, with Mississippi being the last one to come around in 2024.
I agree with one of the commenters that having Utah vote against a marriage ban in 2013 seems too early, unless it's a more gay-friendly state than I thought. I feel the same way about a few other states he listed.

Anyway, here's the whole article: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/...-marriage.html

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