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Old 04-11-2009, 04:45 PM   #101
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

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I'm sorry, but I watch Fox on a regular basis, along with CNN and Bloomberg. I've never seen it....I think it is a ridiculous accusation.
Did you ever flip back and forth between networks actually looking for it? I had heard about this and didn't believe it, but I did notice it after I had heard the theory. It's probably not something you would notice unless you were looking for it.

At any rate, it was probably a bad example on my part. There are plenty more. Hell, there is a whole thread devoted to the subject. Anyhow, that wasn't really my point. In my opinion Fox has less credibility than MSNBC, and I doubt I'm alone in that opinion. Of course neither have a ton of credibility so it's pretty much like arguing which network is the bigger loser.

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Old 04-11-2009, 04:55 PM   #102
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

But Fox News, nationally, has the more credibility than any other TV News source out there.

So it's kinda like...I don't know...comparing the leader of an industry to a competitor that averages a fraction of it's audience.

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Old 04-11-2009, 05:02 PM   #103
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But Fox News, nationally, has the more credibility than any other TV News source out there.

So it's kinda like...I don't know...comparing the leader of an industry to a competitor that averages a fraction of it's audience.
I don't think I ever said the majority of people think MSNBC is more credible, I said that in my opinion they were. I was arguing that both of you were making generalizations based off your opinions and not facts. You proved your point in my opinion and won that argument. I could say that MSNBC's ratings being pretty much equal to CNN's currently is proof that there are obviously a lot of people that take MSNBC seriously.

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Old 04-11-2009, 05:03 PM   #104
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

Ok, I gotcha.

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Old 04-11-2009, 06:52 PM   #105
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

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No, I think they show that the people of the United States can stand up for what they believe in, and do it in a manner that is not one of violence or vandalism. I think it shows our freedom of speech in a special way....I think it shows exactly what the Boston Tea Party was all about....Taxation without Representation....when our represenatives are not given the time to read, debate and given legitimate committee time to bring forth legislation that has been sufficiently given time for ALL REPRESENATIVES to represent their constituents.....then yeah that is taxation without proper representation.

I think it fits perfectly, IMO.
I'm all for people standing up for what they believe in. It just seems like a publicity stunt by naming it "tea parties". It just lives a bad taste in my mouth and I can't take the protest seriously. It's kind of like Woodstock '98 to me.

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Old 04-11-2009, 06:58 PM   #106
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It also helps that [Maddow] is on a network no one takes seriously.
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MSNBC (4.0%)
Can you admit you were wrong and some people DO take MSNBC seriously?

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Old 04-11-2009, 07:08 PM   #107
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

The Poll had a margin of error of 4%, so technically that poll doesn't definitively prove anyone takes MSNBC seriously

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Old 04-11-2009, 07:14 PM   #108
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Me at the Naples Tea Party (over 400 attended), this past Sunday. I was manning the FairTax Booth.
Is that John Lovitz?

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Old 04-11-2009, 07:19 PM   #109
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He IS a well known FairTax advocate.

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Old 04-11-2009, 07:22 PM   #110
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

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I'm all for people standing up for what they believe in. It just seems like a publicity stunt by naming it "tea parties". It just lives a bad taste in my mouth and I can't take the protest seriously. It's kind of like Woodstock '98 to me.

To each their own I guess....

If you are protesting what you believe to be unfair taxes, and what you believe as a departure from what this country was founded on......why is it such a hard thing to understand why they would relate it back to the Boston Tea Party...

I mean if your political ideology leans toward being ok with what Obama is doing, then yeah I can see you having a problem with it.....but honestly I just don't see the problem with the name, and I necessarily use that as a reason to not take it seriously.

If you can give some reasons why you are ok with the policies that they are protesting, then I can certainly understand that.....

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Old 04-11-2009, 07:27 PM   #111
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

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Originally Posted by StorminNorman Returns View Post
The Poll had a margin of error of 4%, so technically that poll doesn't definitively prove anyone takes MSNBC seriously

It was a rhetorical question anyways. I didn't think you would actually admit your mistake.

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Old 04-12-2009, 12:48 AM   #112
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To each their own I guess....

If you are protesting what you believe to be unfair taxes, and what you believe as a departure from what this country was founded on......why is it such a hard thing to understand why they would relate it back to the Boston Tea Party...

I mean if your political ideology leans toward being ok with what Obama is doing, then yeah I can see you having a problem with it.....but honestly I just don't see the problem with the name, and I necessarily use that as a reason to not take it seriously.

If you can give some reasons why you are ok with the policies that they are protesting, then I can certainly understand that.....
I'm not ok with the policies being protested. I'm actually kind of conflicted about them. My problem is with calling them "tea parties". Using the name of a major event in our history. Like someone said in an earlier post, it seems more like an excuse for Obama haters to get together and complain. Basically I feel they are using the name to help draw more attention to themselves. If they feel as strongly as they do about what they are protesting, be original and creative, and make it historical in its own right. Don't ride off of a name of a historic event because I feel it trivializes the actual historic event.

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Old 04-12-2009, 01:21 AM   #113
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

The Tea Parties are not about the Dems or Republicans as individual parties. It's about the entire system and those in power over stepping the powers given to them by the Constitution. It's about the bailouts and taxes. Its about Congress spending us into such a debt that our great grandchildren will still be paying for. It's about the earmarks and pork spending.

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Old 04-12-2009, 02:13 AM   #114
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

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Originally Posted by danielisthor View Post
The Tea Parties are not about the Dems or Republicans as individual parties. It's about the entire system and those in power over stepping the powers given to them by the Constitution. It's about the bailouts and taxes. Its about Congress spending us into such a debt that our great grandchildren will still be paying for. It's about the earmarks and pork spending.
I realize this. I'm talking about the using the name. So I guess I am the only person who thinks this whole thing bastardizes the original tea party.

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Old 04-12-2009, 10:42 AM   #115
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

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I realize this. I'm talking about the using the name. So I guess I am the only person who thinks this whole thing bastardizes the original tea party.
How exactly is it bastardizing the original Tea Party? You have said this a few times, but you haven't really explained why you feel this way....is it simply because you don't agree with what they are protesting?

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Old 04-12-2009, 10:46 AM   #116
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

It's not bastardizing the Original Tea Party, it's living in influence of it. If someone warns a group of people about impending political disaster, they tend to be called "a Modern day Paul Revere", it that "bastardizing" the original? No.

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Old 04-12-2009, 04:41 PM   #117
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

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Originally Posted by danielisthor View Post
The Tea Parties are not about the Dems or Republicans as individual parties. It's about the entire system and those in power over stepping the powers given to them by the Constitution. It's about the bailouts and taxes.
Things we need to stop the country from falling into an economic death spiral and to keep a functioning government.

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Its about Congress spending us into such a debt that our great grandchildren will still be paying for.
They'd prefer their grandchildren to live in a semi-permanent third world country? The bailouts and stimulus are there for a reason. It's a necessary evil.

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It's about the earmarks and pork spending.
Earmarks and pork can be good or bad depending on how its used. Used responsibly these devices can improve the country.


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Old 04-12-2009, 04:41 PM   #118
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How exactly is it bastardizing the original Tea Party? You have said this a few times, but you haven't really explained why you feel this way....is it simply because you don't agree with what they are protesting?
I think you guys are reading too much into my original question. I don't see how I'm being unclear. I don't not agree nor disagree with the protest itsself. It has nothing to do with the protest. It is the name it's using. The Boston Tea Party was a major event that helped shape our history. These tea parties I feel are no where near as important as the original. Yes, it's about taxes so there is some comparison. To go back to my Woodstock analogy, they where both music festivals, but the original was historic, the one in '98 was commercialized. But that is understandable, the promoters were tring to make a buck. With this, this is supposed to be something imporant, and using the name "tea party", not only does this make it look like a publicity stunt in my mind, it also kind of spits in the face of what the original was supposed to be about. But in the end, this is only how I feel about the situation. I was just asking to see if anyone else felt the same.

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Old 04-12-2009, 04:47 PM   #119
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

Also I want to say, it sets us up that we can have "tea party" protests when ever we don't agree with what our tax dollars are going to. Were was a tea party to protest what many consider a wasteful and unjust war in Iraq? How about we have a marijuana tea party to protest tax dollars to fund the war on drugs? I would not be against those protests, but I think it would also deminish the idea behind the original one.

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Old 04-12-2009, 04:56 PM   #120
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

Well, thank you for clarifying if you agree or disagree....lol, well sort of.

At the time of the Boston Tea Party, the world knew nothing about it, nor did the King care. It was seen as a group of people doing little as well. History has elevated it to what we know today. So, you can't really say that these are insignificant in relation to the Boston Tea Party....we don't know what these will do in the future, or how they will affect government decisions. The people who were a part of the Boston Tea Party didn't know that either....they simply knew one thing: They did not feel that they were being represented, nor did they have a voice in their government. That is EXACTLY what these people believe.

As far as your Woodstock analogy, I'm sorry, but I think that isn't even apples and oranges, they have nothing to do with each other in any form.

I do seem to read, in reading between the lines that you are in favor of Obama's Tax Plan and that is feeding into your opinion of these Tea Parties....

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Were was a tea party to protest what many consider a wasteful and unjust war in Iraq?
You had protests, why would they be called tea parties?????

I guess I'm totally not following where you are coming from on this....I just don't see the commonality of Woodstock, or the Iraq War. What I do see, is someone that is in favor of Obama's plan (which is fine, that's cool) and not in favor of the Iraq War (which is fine as well, nor was I).....but I don't see the coorelation in your argument...

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Old 04-12-2009, 06:04 PM   #121
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

I agree Kel.

The amazing thing I feel about these Tea Parties are the amazing way they are spontaneously growing. There are 300 separate Tea Parties scheduled for the 15th. While there is a National effort by a few individuals to help organize this, it is the Grassroots people using the Internet and local radio stations putting it together.

These ARE Historic. When else in American History have Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people gathered together in peaceful protest against excessive taxation and wasteful spending, seemingly spontaneously.

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Old 04-12-2009, 08:00 PM   #122
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

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Things we need to stop the country from falling into an economic death spiral and to keep a functioning government.
Had the oversight committees done their job, had Bush and Frank not forced Freddie and Fannie to take on bad mortgages from people who couldn't afford them.......


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They'd prefer their grandchildren to live in a semi-permanent third world country?
Considering the effects that it's going to have on thier tax burden, it probably will feel like a 3rd world country. But since we'll either be dead or close to it, it shouldn't matter.....

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The bailouts and stimulus are there for a reason. It's a necessary evil.
They are there and needed because of point #1 above. Part of the problem is we the American people as well. We've gotten to the point that certain industries depend on us to buy a new vehicle every 3 to 4 years instead of driving it into the ground. Do the car industries really need to flood the market every year? Shouldn't we all drive the vehicles we have longer? In a time when gas prices are rising every summer, why hasn't Detriot start pushing better fuel economy cars here in the US. Last year Ford built a car getting 40 to 60 miles per gallon, but they weren't for the US market..

Unfortunately, the economy is directly tied to our overspending and debt.


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Earmarks and pork can be good or bad depending on how its used. Used responsibly these devices can improve the country.
8 billion not spent on pork and earmarks is 8 billion that could be used to pay off the skyrocketing national debt. There's a thread with this years spending. There's alot of spending that could take a hiatus for a year or more, until this mess is straightened out.

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Old 04-12-2009, 08:19 PM   #123
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

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Had the oversight committees done their job, had Bush and Frank not forced Freddie and Fannie to take on bad mortgages from people who couldn't afford them.......
True. But the first TARP and the temporary auto bail-outs still kept the economy alive until Obama came in. Things would have been much worse had Bush not done that IMO.

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Considering the effects that it's going to have on thier tax burden, it probably will feel like a 3rd world country.
Which is still better then actually being one. There is no guarantee America could succeed rising back to a first world country if it got that bad. At least now we have a shot.

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But since we'll either be dead or close to it, it shouldn't matter.....
We were already in record breaking debt level before Obama came in. This was going to happen no matter what.

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They are there and needed because of point #1 above.
Agreed.

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Part of the problem is we the American people as well. We've gotten to the point that certain industries depend on us to buy a new vehicle every 3 to 4 years instead of driving it into the ground.
They do that because they think the best way to make profit is to make crap that breaks x amount of years so their customers will be forced to buy more stuff. Which makes it easier for foreign manufacturers to pick off burned out American car buyers.

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Do the car industries really need to flood the market every year? Shouldn't we all drive the vehicles we have longer? In a time when gas prices are rising every summer, why hasn't Detriot start pushing better fuel economy cars here in the US.
Good question. The only answer I can think of is short term profit.

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Last year Ford built a car getting 40 to 60 miles per gallon, but they weren't for the US market..
I'd like to know why they did that, as well.

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Unfortunately, the economy is directly tied to our overspending and debt.
True.

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8 billion not spent on pork and earmarks is 8 billion that could be used to pay off the skyrocketing national debt.
That 8 billion is going directly into the economy to keep it that much closer to pulling out of the recession. Though I do like your idea.

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There's a thread with this years spending. There's alot of spending that could take a hiatus for a year or more, until this mess is straightened out.
You spend during a recession. It keeps the economy moving.


Last edited by The Major; 04-12-2009 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 04-12-2009, 08:34 PM   #124
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

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Did you ever flip back and forth between networks actually looking for it? I had heard about this and didn't believe it, but I did notice it after I had heard the theory. It's probably not something you would notice unless you were looking for it.

At any rate, it was probably a bad example on my part. There are plenty more. Hell, there is a whole thread devoted to the subject. Anyhow, that wasn't really my point. In my opinion Fox has less credibility than MSNBC, and I doubt I'm alone in that opinion. Of course neither have a ton of credibility so it's pretty much like arguing which network is the bigger loser.
Fair enough....

And, honestly.......when we are looking for something....we usually find it.

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Old 04-12-2009, 10:24 PM   #125
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Default Re: Tea Parties --- the protest

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Fair enough....

And, honestly.......when we are looking for something....we usually find it.
Very true.


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I realize this. I'm talking about the using the name. So I guess I am the only person who thinks this whole thing bastardizes the original tea party.
I don't care if they use the term "Tea Party". Just, for the love of God stop using the term "teabagging".

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