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Old 06-13-2012, 01:15 PM   #76
SuperCereal
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

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Originally Posted by Motown Marvel View Post
the unparalleled iconography of superman is directly related to his suit and look. to change that is to distance people from what they are familiar with.

and superman's "cool factor" has to do with his character and stories. if you want superman to be "cool", then write good stories that are engaging and intelligent and fun and embody everything the character is meant to be.
You might want to tell that to today's kids who dont really care for Superman when they're surrounded with so many other alternatives. From cartoons, to movies, to videogames which try to be more like interactive movies (see Assassins Creed for example) than mindless videogames.

Why would they care about Superman if he doesnt appeal to them anymore? Why would they buy his videogame or watch his cartoon if Marvel's Ironman is cooler? Cape comics are a visual medium after all. I am not suggesting they discard the old suit, but is redesigning it a little bit for new generation that bad? Is it an offense or a blasphemy like you guys claim?

Didnt Geoff Johns have a huge impact on GL for the better? Should we have stuck to our guns and tried to force the older GL franchise down people's throats? They didnt really redesign his suit, but they didn reconfigure his world, and especially Sinestro.

Back to Superman, I like the design, but even if i didnt, if it helps superman, i'm fine with it. After all didnt they change his suit once like i point out in that pic i posted? Or is it ok because we grew up with it?

Iconic in comics mostly means "what we had for a long time and what i grew up with". Barry Allen is the iconic Flash but only a few people cared for him. To bring him back they had to work hard to make him cool again and they redesigned even his suit. And yes Superman is iconic in the true sense, but these minor suit changes wont be noticeable by the average joe, while they ll still be able to tell that it's him without a doubt. So this:
Quote:
the unparalleled iconography of superman is directly related to his suit and look. to change that is to distance people from what they are familiar with.
is false.

Only diehard fans care about it, everybody else is fine with it. Same with the core fandom still not liking WW's new suit when everyone else does.


Last edited by SuperCereal; 06-13-2012 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 06-13-2012, 01:26 PM   #77
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

i prefer the original famous suit,it is iconic and not just that but i preffered supermans personality as it was..this new superman isn't the superman ive grown up with..he's more superboy from the old universe than superman.
Its such a shame.i am not a fan of the new 52..in fact ive stopped reading it all together..just reading the marvel books now.

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Old 06-13-2012, 01:39 PM   #78
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

The suit with the collar reminds me of the snazzy uniforms in the movie Demolition Man and it looks better without the red trunks.

I prefer the classic suit for nostalgic reasons and I know DC in no time will revert them all back to the old costumes.

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Old 06-13-2012, 02:36 PM   #79
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

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Originally Posted by SuperCereal View Post
You might want to tell that to today's kids who dont really care for Superman when they're surrounded with so many other alternatives. From cartoons, to movies, to videogames which try to be more like interactive movies (see Assassins Creed for example) than mindless videogames.

Why would they care about Superman if he doesnt appeal to them anymore? Why would they buy his videogame or watch his cartoon if Marvel's Ironman is cooler? Cape comics are a visual medium after all. I am not suggesting they discard the old suit, but is redesigning it a little bit for new generation that bad? Is it an offense or a blasphemy like you guys claim?
i wouldnt expect them or anyone to find superman appealing if there are cooler things out there. but the best thing superman has going for him is his visual image. its something everyone recognizes and is familiar with. there was nothing wrong with the suit. the problems were in how he's been characterized.

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Didnt Geoff Johns have a huge impact on GL for the better? Should we have stuck to our guns and tried to force the older GL franchise down people's throats? They didnt really redesign his suit, but they didn reconfigure his world, and especially Sinestro.
like superman, GL's suit wasnt the problem. Geoff Johns wrote the character well and presented him with good stories. that made the difference.

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Back to Superman, I like the design, but even if i didnt, if it helps superman, i'm fine with it. After all didnt they change his suit once like i point out in that pic i posted? Or is it ok because we grew up with it?
but the redesign hasnt proved to be of any significant help to superman.

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Iconic in comics mostly means "what we had for a long time and what i grew up with". Barry Allen is the iconic Flash but only a few people cared for him. To bring him back they had to work hard to make him cool again and they redesigned even his suit. And yes Superman is iconic in the true sense, but these minor suit changes wont be noticeable by the average joe, while they ll still be able to tell that it's him without a doubt. So this: is false.
flash's iconography is a mere fraction of superman's. you can get away with tweaking flash's business. and i would hardly call superman's suit changes "minor".

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Only diehard fans care about it, everybody else is fine with it. Same with the core fandom still not liking WW's new suit when everyone else does.
everyone else isnt fine with it. they're unaware of it.

superman is iconographic because everyone recognizes his image. whether you are familiar with his characterization/story or not, everyone recognizes the image. if you change that image, you distance people from what they are familiar with and that makes them less comfortable with it and less likely to approach it.

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Old 06-13-2012, 02:54 PM   #80
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

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Originally Posted by Motown Marvel View Post
i wouldnt expect them or anyone to find superman appealing if there are cooler things out there. but the best thing superman has going for him is his visual image. its something everyone recognizes and is familiar with. there was nothing wrong with the suit. the problems were in how he's been characterized.
So what if we make that visual image a little more modern so that when a kid sees him on the cover of a new videogame he'll go "cool i want to play that!"
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like superman, GL's suit wasnt the problem. Geoff Johns wrote the character well and presented him with good stories. that made the difference.
Because GL's suit didnt really need much. Like Spiderman. His suit is practically the same he had on his first issue, something even Superman cant boast.

But his suit seems to be cool even now and he's one of Marvel's best franchises. Superman hasnt been that for DC in ages. Also, despite his suit still being viable, they keep giving him new ones every now and then. The venom suit, the Stark one he had in Civil War, the Tron thing, Morales' suit in the Ultimate universe (ok he's a different guy, but still...), etc.
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but the redesign hasnt proved to be of any significant help to superman.
I agree that Morrison did most of the work, but how can we judge the effect of the new suit unless we have a public poll about it?
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flash's iconography is a mere fraction of superman's. you can get away with tweaking flash's business.
It's like i said before. The core fandom has this idea that Superman is a god and he's too great for such stuff. That is only for the losers like Flash.

But i agree, it speaks volumes that Superman/Clark has stayed for all these years with the same suit, when Barry got replaced by Wally, who had a new suit, then he came back with an even newer suit. Hal was replaced by a new guy, and so on. However, at some point, it has to come to that.

Cant we thankful that Superman never needed all that to stay at the forefront of the DCU and accept that every once in a century he might need some touches?
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and i would hardly call superman's suit changes "minor".
Please elaborate. He lost his underpants, and gained a collar. What else is there? The new sleaves? Ok, he has pointy sleaves too.
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everyone else isnt fine with it. they're unaware of it.
Who do you mean? The general audience? The general audience doesnt lose sleep over such trivial issues.

Not even kids care anymore. They'd rather buy an Assassins Creed or WoW backpack or mug than a Superman one. Whether he wears underpants or not.
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superman is iconographic because everyone recognizes his image. whether you are familiar with his characterization/story or not, everyone recognizes the image.
And how is this new design so different that he is unrecognizable? Unless you're a comic book fan or Rainman, you wont notice those minor details. Just like you wont notice whether Batman sports the yellow emblem or the black one. Or whether WW's chest is gold or silver.

He's a blue dude with a red cape and a big S on his chest. That's Superman.

DC might be stupid but they're not that stupid. They have people who look into these things. Do you think this reboot was just a matter of coming up with new ideas and suits? I'm sure they had polls, data and people who know about the industry, about what kids want, and how you can appeal to them. And the suits reflect that. They wouldnt redesign them and lose their iconography. The new Superman still looks undeniably like Superman.

At the end of the day isnt that something that should worry DC? Why do you care if he is recognisable by the average joe?
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if you change that image, you distance people from what they are familiar with and that makes them less comfortable with it and less likely to approach it.
Every industry in the world disagrees with you. The car, the fashion, the music, the movie industry, and so on.

And yes, even the comics industry. Look at what Extremis did for Ironman. Do you think people didnt know it was him? Of course he was and he was awesome and cool and people started loving his comics which lead to the movie and all that made Ironman one of Marvel's big players.

In a similar fashion, everyone reads WW these days.


Last edited by SuperCereal; 06-13-2012 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 06-13-2012, 03:05 PM   #81
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

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Old 06-13-2012, 03:12 PM   #82
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

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Originally Posted by SuperCereal View Post
So what if we make that visual image a little more modern so that when a kid sees him on the cover of a new videogame he'll go "cool i want to play that!"
why would you want to take something that's been proven timeless to make it modern? that doesnt make any sense. are we gonna modernize superman every ten years to pander to kids? and yer assuming kids dont respond positively to superman's classic costume. the suit was already popular. its the character that needed redefining.

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Because GL's suit didnt really need much. Like Spiderman. His suit is practically the same he had on his first issue, something even Superman cant boast.
superman's suit has been more consistent longer than any other hero in comics.

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But his suit seems to be cool even now and he's one of Marvel's best franchises. Superman hasnt been that for DC in ages. Also, despite his suit still being viable, they keep giving him new ones every now and then. The venom suit, the Stark one he had in Civil War, the Tron thing, Morales' suit in the Ultimate universe (ok he's a different guy, but still...), etc. I agree that Morrison did most of the work, but how can we judge the effect of the new suit unless we have a public poll about it?
superman has had a new suit for about a year now. his status and popularity hasnt been enhanced any by it. statistics have shown that DC's new 52 hasnt brought new readers to comics as intended. superman has one book in the top ten and thats because grant morrison's name is on it.

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It's like i said before. The core fandom has this idea that Superman is a god and he's too great for such stuff. That is only for the losers like Flash.
i dont think superman is a god, nor do i think the flash is a loser.

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But i agree, it speaks volumes that Superman/Clark has stayed for all these years with the same suit, when Barry got replaced by Wally, who had a new suit, then he came back with an even newer suit. Hal was replaced by a new guy, and so on. However, at some point, it has to come to that.
lets stop bringing other characters into this. its rather irrelevant since no other character can even begin to share the iconography that superman has.

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Cant we thankful that Superman never needed all that to stay at the forefront of the DCU and accept that every once in a century he might need some touches?
i dont mind superman being tweaked for the better. but the changes made to the suit were pointless and irrelevant, and in my opinion do more harm to the character than good.

Quote:
Please elaborate. He lost his underpants, and gained a collar. What else is there? The new sleaves? Ok, he has pointy sleaves too.
the loss of underpants and collar are pretty dramatic changes. i can deal with pointy sleeves. the gaudy seems and overall appearance of armor is rather atrocious.

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Who do you mean? The general audience? The general audience doesnt lose sleep over such trivial issues.
you said the general audience is fine with the change. im saying the general audience is widely unaware superman's costume has changed.

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Not even kids care anymore. They'd rather buy an Assassins Creed or WoW backpack or mug than a Superman one. Whether he wears underpants or not.
And how is this new design so different that he is unrecognizable? Unless you're a comic book fan or Rainman, you wont notice those minor details. Just like you wont notice whether Batman sports the yellow emblem or the black one. Or whether WW's chest is gold or silver.
again, people not caring has to do with the character, not the image.

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He's a blue dude with a red cape and a big S on his chest. That's Superman.
Every industry in the world disagrees with you. The car, the fashion, the music, the movie industry, and so on.
if that overly simplified idea is what you see as superman's iconographic image, then you have no place in this conversation.

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And yes, even the comics industry. Look at what Extremis did for Ironman. Do you think people didnt know it was him? Of course he was and he was awesome and cool and people started loving his comics which lead to the movie and all that made Ironman one of Marvel's big players.
again, referencing other characters on this matter is irrelevant since they dont begin to share superman's iconographic status.

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In a similar fashion, everyone reads WW these days.
oh do they? she's not even a top ten book.

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Old 06-13-2012, 05:25 PM   #83
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

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Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Seriously, the Flash's redesign is one of the worst. Lightning cascading off the suit is one thing, but there's so much from all those fine lines now that it looks like a tangled mass of blonde hair or something. It kills the aerodynamic motion effect that the lightning was meant to convey in the first place.

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Old 06-13-2012, 06:23 PM   #84
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

It's very much a good idea in theory though, with a better design it could have looked better than all that lightning humping off of him.

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Old 06-13-2012, 08:53 PM   #85
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

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Originally Posted by Motown Marvel View Post
why would you want to take something that's been proven timeless to make it modern? that doesnt make any sense. are we gonna modernize superman every ten years to pander to kids? and yer assuming kids dont respond positively to superman's classic costume. the suit was already popular. its the character that needed redefining.
I cant speak for others but speaking for myself, SUperman looked like your dad's expensive car. A great car, beautiful, timeless, but a new BMW convertible just beats it when it comes to looking cool. In other words when people hear of Superman, they think of Christopher Reeves' Superman even if the story itself it the most modern and greatest story ever written.

Now he looks a bit more modern and less like a dude in spandex. What's so bad about that?
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superman has had a new suit for about a year now. his status and popularity hasnt been enhanced any by it. statistics have shown that DC's new 52 hasnt brought new readers to comics as intended. superman has one book in the top ten and thats because grant morrison's name is on it.
I agree with you on that. However, the Superman book which is actually kind of crappy is enjoying good sales despite that fact. So yes, new people didnt come to comics, but perhaps more people (who were already readers of other books) are reading Superman. That's definitely the case for WW.

Also, even though new people dont come into comics, there are cartoons, movies, videogames. And if i remember correctly when they were launching the new 52 they said they were redesigning the characters they way they see them today, they way they'd market them in any media. So just because the comics didnt reel in new readers, it doesnt mean that Superman cant have a videogame.
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i dont think superman is a god, nor do i think the flash is a loser.
That's what your statements imply. SUperman is too good to adapt but it's ok for Flash. Screw that guy. Aaaaand:
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lets stop bringing other characters into this. its rather irrelevant since no other character can even begin to share the iconography that superman has.
Thanks for proving my point.

I'll counter with Superman cant begin to share the sales GL has had over the past few years. Daniel's crappy batman book sells like hot cakes even if it's crap, just because it has Batman in it. Superman doesnt have that anymore. Unless the story is good, SUperman wont be in the top 10 books. Can you blame DC for wanting to give him a push?

Superman deserves better and he shouldnt be held back by his self important core fandom that want the same things forever, and who will buy the book anyway.
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i dont mind superman being tweaked for the better. but the changes made to the suit were pointless and irrelevant, and in my opinion do more harm to the character than good.
What wouldnt be pointless and irrelevant?

Personally, i think getting rid of the underpants was a good thing. A lot of the new suits look less cheesy and more 21st century and that should help comics seem a little less childish and passe to the average joe who might want to jump into them.

There are a lot of people who do that after watching the batman movies. There's also a lot of people who came from Marvel, seeing DC as more dynamic and modern now.
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the loss of underpants and collar are pretty dramatic changes.
I think you're overreacting. I think if you go and pick up a 2 year old SM book he'll look old and passe by comparison.
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i can deal with pointy sleeves. the gaudy seems and overall appearance of armor is rather atrocious.
But it's not armor, it's indestructible cloth.
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if that overly simplified idea is what you see as superman's iconographic image, then you have no place in this conversation.
Please enlighten me. If you think that SUperman's iconography is his underpants, then maybe you should be looking more at his eyes.

We're talking about design here, and the basic design elements are still there, just like this is still Ironman.



But i forgot, he doesnt have the iconography of Superman. But hey, he's laughing his way all the way to the bank.

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oh do they? she's not even a top ten book.
She's been in the 14th spot ever since the reboot, and only dropped in May because of the Owls and AvX. She's been outselling almost every big Marvel book that isnt about the Avengers and about half of the X-Men books.

That's huge.


Last edited by SuperCereal; 06-13-2012 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:55 PM   #86
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

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It's very much a good idea in theory though, with a better design it could have looked better than all that lightning humping off of him.
It already looked good when artists were doing it on Wally's costume for the past 20 years. Manapul's trying to improve something that didn't need improving, and he ended up making it look silly instead.

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Old 06-13-2012, 09:40 PM   #87
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

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I cant speak for others but speaking for myself, SUperman looked like your dad's expensive car. A great car, beautiful, timeless, but a new BMW convertible just beats it when it comes to looking cool. In other words when people hear of Superman, they think of Christopher Reeves' Superman even if the story itself it the most modern and greatest story ever written.
yer making a lot of assumptions on behalf of other people.

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Now he looks a bit more modern and less like a dude in spandex. What's so bad about that?
the problem is you look at superman and see a "dude in spandex".

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I agree with you on that. However, the Superman book which is actually kind of crappy is enjoying good sales despite that fact. So yes, new people didnt come to comics, but perhaps more people (who were already readers of other books) are reading Superman. That's definitely the case for WW.
more people reading superman? the idea of it is great. but it's irrelevant to me when the superman books they are reading are crappy. yes, DC is a business and sales matter. but there needs to be a balance between sales and quality. because sales at any cost is not impressive to me, nor is it how i want the industry and characters to thrive.

Quote:
Also, even though new people dont come into comics, there are cartoons, movies, videogames. And if i remember correctly when they were launching the new 52 they said they were redesigning the characters they way they see them today, they way they'd market them in any media. So just because the comics didnt reel in new readers, it doesnt mean that Superman cant have a videogame.
i never said superman cant have a videogame.

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That's what your statements imply. SUperman is too good to adapt but it's ok for Flash. Screw that guy. Aaaaand:
Thanks for proving my point.
no, my statements point out a simple fact: when it comes to iconographic status, no other fictional character (particularly in comics) comes close to superman.

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I'll counter with Superman cant begin to share the sales GL has had over the past few years. Daniel's crappy batman book sells like hot cakes even if it's crap, just because it has Batman in it. Superman doesnt have that anymore. Unless the story is good, SUperman wont be in the top 10 books. Can you blame DC for wanting to give him a push?
i dont blame DC for wanting to give him a push, he needed it. my problem is with how they pushed him.

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Superman deserves better and he shouldnt be held back by his self important core fandom that want the same things forever, and who will buy the book anyway. What wouldnt be pointless and irrelevant?
yes, he deserves better. and i've made it clear that i dont want the same superman we've had recently, changes needed to be made. but the suit isnt what was broke. it was the character.

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Personally, i think getting rid of the underpants was a good thing. A lot of the new suits look less cheesy and more 21st century and that should help comics seem a little less childish and passe to the average joe who might want to jump into them.
i disagree completely about the suits. i think the vast majority of the redesigns look awful. you say you want them to look less childish, but previous in this discussion you were so concerned about how children responded to them. and you want the average joe to jump into them, but we've already established that the new 52 initiative has failed to capture that.

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There are a lot of people who do that after watching the batman movies. There's also a lot of people who came from Marvel, seeing DC as more dynamic and modern now.
yes, people from other areas of comic fandom are checking out DC books. i think DC went about capturing their attention the wrong way. i think the sales are progressively showing their new found fans are fleeting. and overall, i wish the books they came to check out were of better quality and representation of the characters.

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I think you're overreacting. I think if you go and pick up a 2 year old SM book he'll look old and passe by comparison. But it's not armor, it's indestructible cloth.
it may be stated as indestructible cloth. but it looks like armor. and thats stupid.

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Please enlighten me. If you think that SUperman's iconography is his underpants, then maybe you should be looking more at his eyes.
if i need to explain the obvious to you, then you shouldnt be in this conversation.

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We're talking about design here, and the basic design elements are still there, just like this is still Ironman. But i forgot, he doesnt have the iconography of Superman. But hey, he's laughing his way all the way to the bank.
the bare minimum of superman's design is still there. and thats not good enough for me. between iron man's character, story, and lesser iconographic status, his design has more room to be toyed with.

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She's been in the 14th spot ever since the reboot, and only dropped in May because of the Owls and AvX. She's been outselling almost every big Marvel book that isnt about the Avengers and about half of the X-Men books.

That's huge.
its a fleeting success. watch her slip more in the coming months. and like i said before, i dont support sales at any cost. it requires a balance with quality for me to respect it. and i've found the WW comics of recent to be quite sub par. i wish with a stronger readership they'd be experiencing stronger stories.

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Old 06-14-2012, 06:48 AM   #88
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

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more people reading superman? the idea of it is great. but it's irrelevant to me when the superman books they are reading are crappy. yes, DC is a business and sales matter. but there needs to be a balance between sales and quality. because sales at any cost is not impressive to me, nor is it how i want the industry and characters to thrive.
I think that a successful property can endure some bad stories. Just like Batman can endure Daniel's book. But the moment Azzarello starts messing up his story, the WW book will lose tons of readers.

And of course the success of a franchise means that you'll get a second and third book, a cartoon, a movie, a videogame, etc. Look at how GL expanded everywhere.
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i never said superman cant have a videogame.
But in order to have one and to be able to compete with other videogames, he cant do it looking like our grandparents' superhero.
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i dont blame DC for wanting to give him a push, he needed it. my problem is with how they pushed him.
A new suit and Grant Morrison? I'd say they had the right idea.
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yes, he deserves better. and i've made it clear that i dont want the same superman we've had recently, changes needed to be made. but the suit isnt what was broke. it was the character.
I agree with that, although i think that a more modern suit would do wonders for his image.
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i disagree completely about the suits. i think the vast majority of the redesigns look awful. you say you want them to look less childish, but previous in this discussion you were so concerned about how children responded to them. and you want the average joe to jump into them, but we've already established that the new 52 initiative has failed to capture that.
Children dont like childish things. They like serious and mature stuff.
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if i need to explain the obvious to you, then you shouldnt be in this conversation.
You're trying to make me feel stupid because i dont see your point of view. It's a subtle ad hominem.

I'll just leave these here. They're posts from another forum about the same issue where people put my thoughts into paper better than i ever could. I'm not posting them about you, so dont get offended, but i think they explain precisely why redesigning superman wasnt a bad thing.

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There is no universal definition of "What a superhero should look like."

A mindest similar to yours is what's kept Superman stuck in a stasis for so long. His own iconic status working against him to the point that anything creative tried with him, be it his look or any other aspect, and people freak out. The character deserves better. It deserves to be able to adapt to the times, just like any other character. For one, I'm extremely glad that for this movie, and more importantly this team at DC Comics, finally stepped up and dispelled the notion that Superman cannot play in the same sandbox everyone else can.

To me there's nothing elitist and shameful to try and keep a character that's been around nearly a century fresh and relevant to newer generations. It is elitist, however, to selfishly keep him in this nostalgic bubble that no one can touch.
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Superman was created as a progressive idea of his time. He shouldn't have to be relegated to be the opposite to pander to nostalgia of people like you.
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Such dedication to a pair of red underpants and bright fabrics. I honestly think you're letting nostalgia blind to all else. I understand some of the complaints about the costume, but to say that Superman's costume should NEVER change at all and that it defines him is absurdly wrong in my opinion. His characterisation and who he is defines him as a person.

I can't believe I even have to say this but wearing bright red underwear made of thin silk-like material is not modern. Thats not to say its a bad design, it just has a very esoteric appeal nowadays. I love watching the Reeve films, but I shudder to think about Cavill wearing the exact same costume in the new movie. It'll look like a cosplay costume. You put this and the new costume side by side, of course this one looks more modern.

Personally, the bright red and dull blue remind me a bit of the Max Fleischer Superman. And once again, the new costume is still instantly recognisable. It's not as if it's an utter betrayal of the classic costume.
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Yeah, that the classic costume made some sort of statement these others do not is perplexing, because, well, the movie costume and new 52 costume have nearly identical origins that the classic costume used to. The only statement that the costume has ever made before was that it was a made from relics of his homeland. This not counting the MOS origin where even that was removed and the entire costume was normal earth fabrics. That aside though, these new costumes stay true to that old symbolism in that they are relics of his dead homeworld. Any differences beyond that are purely aesthetic and from an aesthetic viewpoint I have nothing but respect for the opinion of those who simply don't like it. Its just silly to try and make it more than that though and to liken supporting any suit redesign to lack a basic understanding of the character.

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the bare minimum of superman's design is still there. and thats not good enough for me.
I'm guessing you would only allow them to change something so trivial as his belt buckle design. From circular to rectangular. Or maybe that would be too much as well.
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between iron man's character, story, and lesser iconographic status, his design has more room to be toyed with.
And that's why Superman was collecting dust on the bookshelf while kids were playing with ironman and the other toys.

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its a fleeting success. watch her slip more in the coming months. and like i said before, i dont support sales at any cost. it requires a balance with quality for me to respect it. and i've found the WW comics of recent to be quite sub par. i wish with a stronger readership they'd be experiencing stronger stories.
It's a book that is highly acclaimed by both critics and fans. But if you want to believe it's a fleeting success so that it can match to your opinion that it's bad, then feel free to kid yourself that all critics and fans are wrong and you're right. And that 10 months in the 14th spot in sales isnt stability, but a fleeting suceess.


Last edited by SuperCereal; 06-15-2012 at 04:43 AM.
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:20 AM   #89
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
Also, this is how he puts on the suit now:

I actually this method of putting the costume kinda cool.I dont mind the cotume at all.Its pretty much the same Superman cotume as the classic just without the undies.I truly hate the collar though.I also like the action comics T shirt/jeans look-it gives him a very relatable vibe.

Heres a cool fan art of the tshirt jeans look I like


Slighltly off topic heres some fan art for the MOS suit.



Thanks to Supercereal for defending updates.Got tired of whining


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Old 06-14-2012, 10:38 AM   #90
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

Question: In the latest issue of Action Comics, Clark is wearing the jeans and t-shirt in some panels and the newest suit in others?

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Old 06-14-2012, 11:08 AM   #91
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

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But in order to have one and to be able to compete with other videogames, he cant do it looking like our grandparents' superhero.
superman's suit has proven to be timeless iconography, and yer gonna diminish it down to "grandparents' superhero"? have some respect.

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A new suit and Grant Morrison? I'd say they had the right idea.
grant morrison is a great idea. his all star superman was one of the best superman stories ever written and it was wildly successful among fans, critics, and sales. which is crazy considering the whole time superman looked like my grandparents' superhero.

the new suit design....not so much a great idea.

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I agree with that, although i think that a more modern suit would do wonders for his image.
obviously im gonna disagree with that opinion...no surprise.

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Children dont like childish things. They like serious and mature stuff.
well, i for one don't find superman's suit to be childish.

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You're trying to make me feel stupid because i dont see your point of view. It's a subtle ad hominem.
im not trying to make you feel stupid. superman's iconography and everything that it represents is obvious. if yer gonna come here to debate that, then i shouldnt have to explain it to you.

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I'll just leave these here. They're posts from another forum about the same issue where people put my thoughts into paper better than i ever could. I'm not posting them about you, so dont get offended, but i think they explain precisely why redesigning superman wasnt a bad thing.
im not gonna debate everyone else's opinion on the internet. if you cant properly state and defend yer side of things, then dont get involved.


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I'm guessing you would only allow them to change something so trivial as his belt buckle design. From circular to rectangular. Or maybe that would be too much as well.
yer making assumptions.

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And that's why Superman was collecting dust on the bookshelf while kids were playing with ironman and the other toys.
ha ha, i can assure you, financially speaking, the superman brand is doing more than just fine.

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It's a book that is highly acclaimed by both critics and fans. But if you want to believe it's a fleeting success so that it can match to your opinion that it's bad, then feel free to kid yourself that all critics and fans are wrong and you're right. And that 10 months in the 14th spot in sales isnt stability, but a fleeting suceess.
gee, why would i ever believe that a book who's sales have progressively been slipping from month to month is having fleeting success? and yer pushing it with the "highly acclaimed".

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Old 06-14-2012, 02:30 PM   #92
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

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Originally Posted by Lunar_Wolf View Post
Question: In the latest issue of Action Comics, Clark is wearing the jeans and t-shirt in some panels and the newest suit in others?
I think he just wore the t-shirt in the most recent issue. Morrison seems to be jumping around in Clark's timeline.

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Old 06-14-2012, 10:33 PM   #93
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

He wore the armor with the Justice League

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Old 06-15-2012, 04:54 AM   #94
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

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Thanks to Supercereal for defending updates.Got tired of whining
No problem mate!

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Old 06-15-2012, 04:56 AM   #95
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

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superman's suit has proven to be timeless iconography, and yer gonna diminish it down to "grandparents' superhero"?
I said that's how he looks to young kids today. Kids who spend all day playing Assassins creed and WoW and only know Batman from the movies.
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have some respect.
You re taking this too personally i see.
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im not trying to make you feel stupid. superman's iconography and everything that it represents is obvious. if yer gonna come here to debate that, then i shouldnt have to explain it to you.
His iconography is 95% the same and everything he represents is still the same. It's just the hardcore fans who are mad that he lost the trunks. Everyone else is like "Superman's suit now has cool abilities so he's cooler now? Nice! Maybe i'll actually pick up a comic book this time."

The core fandom being difficult to change as always, even if they re too blindsighted by their own ego and nostalgia to see that they're hurting the character.
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im not gonna debate everyone else's opinion on the internet. if you cant properly state and defend yer side of things, then dont get involved.
I would have posted the same things, i just thought i shouldnt pretend it's my words, even though it's my thoughts exactly.

But if you dont want to address their good points, then whatever.
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yer making assumptions.
But i'm right arent i? If it came down to you, you'd only allow them to redesign his belt buckle, and maybe not even that.
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gee, why would i ever believe that a book who's sales have progressively been slipping from month to month is having fleeting success?
You mean just like the entire new 52? It started out as DC's 14th best selling book and it's still in that place because all books are dropping at the same rate.
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and yer pushing it with the "highly acclaimed".
Well i could search around the internet and find all the articles that place it very highly among the best of the new 52, but i'm not gonna bother because i dont like your arrogant and dismissive tone as if you're some sort of authority on the issue. If you want to, you can do that search by yourself. You're the one who doesnt like the book and needs it to be bad to justify his opinion.

And this will be my last post to you for that exact same reason. And as i go, let me be a douche like the one you've been to me so far. Let me rub it in your face: This is the new suit from now on. Most people love it, but you and your 50 year old pals can keep being grumpy about kids playing in your lawn. Stay mad.



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Old 06-16-2012, 03:27 AM   #96
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

Well, I don't consider myself "hardcore fan" as you put it, yet, find the new suit bad. And removing the trunks is, of course, the worse part. You are right, it may be "silly" for young generations, but it's something I don't get, and it's something DC should be able to transcend. The iconography of Superman worked for 70 years, and this change is justa fashion change to attract new readers. It may be a good idea, but for me, it's just a cheap change. And I would think that the publishers would be to go beyond a fashion change. Especially since there are tons of idea on internet that show a better design WHILE taking the trunks into consideration (even changing them) and adding minor changes. Yeah, this is an update. The Jim Lee suit is a marvel-isation. A "cool" choice because Superman has to be cool to sell.
And I disagree with you, Supercereal. The suit is not liked by "most". But by "some". I find it poor to add this as an argument since the majority does not the validity nor the cleverness, it could be "wrong" or have bad taste, or just don't know a thing about Superman beyond the cartoons and the films and yet allow themselves to have a reasonning about the character in front of people who read moreabout him, especially comics readers. This is the majority, people watch cartoons and think they know Superman. They'll see the movie and think they'll know Superman. DC wants to please a new majority and since this majority never opened a book of Superman published after 1995 (at best), then they are not aware or caring about what drove Superman to what he is today and all the magic of the character.

I think, but this precise point is only support by egoistic subjectiv thoughts, I think that the new suit is another step in the wrong direction, and just shows me how lost is the magic archetype of the "super-man". I predict more success for batman in the years to come and a worsening situation for Superman.

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Old 06-16-2012, 12:03 PM   #97
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

I hate the collar. It just looks weird. And the sleeve also bugs me. I dont really mind them removing the underwear, but im not really a huge superman fan either. Just read a few Superman stories here and there. I've been keeping up since the New 52 started though.

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Old 06-18-2012, 01:40 AM   #98
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume


Showed this pic of Supermans new look to my nephew and he said it was awesome despite being a superman hater.I garee with him it does look awesome(except for the blasted high collar)..Kids would really love this look of Superman seeing how theyve taken to looks of Ironman and Thor.
For the first time I actually understood why Superman was given a armored look.It gives him a nice dashing space knight look which jim lee really has failed to capture.

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Old 06-18-2012, 06:16 AM   #99
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

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Seriously, the Flash's redesign is one of the worst. Lightning cascading off the suit is one thing, but there's so much from all those fine lines now that it looks like a tangled mass of blonde hair or something. It kills the aerodynamic motion effect that the lightning was meant to convey in the first place.
I would agree with you, but I think that Manapul has done a fantasitc job in portraying his redesign in the main Flash book to the point where I don't mind at all.

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Old 06-18-2012, 08:31 AM   #100
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Default Re: What do you think of the new Superman costume

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Showed this pic of Supermans new look to my nephew and he said it was awesome despite being a superman hater.I garee with him it does look awesome(except for the blasted high collar)..Kids would really love this look of Superman seeing how theyve taken to looks of Ironman and Thor.
For the first time I actually understood why Superman was given a armored look.It gives him a nice dashing space knight look which jim lee really has failed to capture.


This picture makes it look alot better. I agree with you on the collar, it has to go. Its horrible. I hate the pointy sleeves too tbh. Just kinda pointless.

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