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Old 09-01-2008, 07:21 PM   #476
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

I've never seen it overrated. It's a good movie, not a great one, that people enjoy and that fans have a soft spot for.

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Old 09-01-2008, 10:06 PM   #477
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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I agree, but to play Devil's Advocate, if the internet was around back when B'89 came out, it's possible that the same would have been said.
That's very possible. Heck, there's probably people out there now that think it's the greatest movie ever made. However, I don't think there would have been as many people proclaiming it the next coming as we had with BB, largely because of some of its bigger deviations from the comics (which I'm not saying were good or bad, don't want to turn this into a flame war).

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Old 09-01-2008, 11:18 PM   #478
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Seems pretty easy to forget about after TDK.
Ya maybe for people who didnt have that as their first batman, like I said the film literally is a classic.

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Old 09-02-2008, 08:37 AM   #479
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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That's very possible. Heck, there's probably people out there now that think it's the greatest movie ever made. However, I don't think there would have been as many people proclaiming it the next coming as we had with BB, largely because of some of its bigger deviations from the comics (which I'm not saying were good or bad, don't want to turn this into a flame war).
If for deviations from the comics, Nolan doesn't come short either. But all the same most people didn't have a problem with those.

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Old 09-02-2008, 10:45 AM   #480
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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If for deviations from the comics, Nolan doesn't come short either. But all the same most people didn't have a problem with those.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to get at. Nolan did have quite a few changes, but I think since those changes were in parts of the Batman mythos that hadn't been explored as in-depth (mainly his travels before becoming Batman) and to smaller characters (making Ducard be a cover name for Ras instead of a detective) people didn't react as strongly to them as say, Keaton's appearance.

Man, think of the fan uproar there would have been if there had been internet in 1989 when Keaton was cast, people were freaking about it then, they would have been ten times worse now. Though luckily, that was one of those changes that turned out to be not so bad in the long run

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Old 09-02-2008, 10:49 AM   #481
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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I feel this film is very overrated and i also think Returns was much better. Jack Nicholsan's performance is vastly overrated in comparison to heath's and the pnly reason people praise it so much is because he was the first person to do a villian in the first start of the Batman series. I also feel that Danny Devito and Michelle Pfeiffer's performance were wayyy better than Jack Nicholson's
Didn't see B'66 I take it?

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Old 09-02-2008, 11:21 AM   #482
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

"TDK" didn't make me forget "B89."

Comparing one another is absurd.

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Old 09-02-2008, 01:04 PM   #483
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I dont feel that Batman '89 is overrated. What has happened is that movies like batman begins and the dark knight have presented a version of batman that people prefer as thus they have gravitated away from Burtons film.......as is now batman '89 feels underappreciated and "cast out.....like a leper" from most fans.

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Old 09-02-2008, 01:29 PM   #484
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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I dont feel that Batman '89 is overrated. What has happened is that movies like batman begins and the dark knight have presented a version of batman that people prefer as thus they have gravitated away from Burtons film.......as is now batman '89 feels underappreciated and "cast out.....like a leper" from most fans.
Here's the thing from what I've noticed. A lot of people from this generation swear up and down that Burton's movies were made with the same intentions as Nolan's which is extremely wrong and false. Sam Hamm worked on his script from the Tom Mankiewickz script which was based on the Englehart/Rogers story and wasn't an origin. As he kept revising and coming up with new stuff he kept ommiting things from the original script but he still had no intentions whatsoever of ever making an origin story he has said this time and time again in interviews so he wasn't even looking at Year One or anything.

Him and Burton were given the original Batman comics (Detective #27 - 37), the Englehart/Rogers comics, The Killing Joke and The Dark Knight Returns to draw influences from. None of those stories are origin stories. It was meant to be a stand alone Batman adventure they didn't even think a sequel would be made. BB on the other hand was made to help establish a new movie universe for Batman, it also drew influences from comics that didn't even exist back when Burton's film was in production.

The thing is in a nutshell superhero movies in the 20 years since that film's production have evolved and are now more complex Burton and company didn't have that luxary. They were making a comic based movie when it was still considered a juvenile film subgenre they did they best that they could do back then to make a respectable summer blockbuster out of what the general public considered kiddie fare. Their intent was to make a film that combined golden age with silver and bronze age and starred an established Batman going up against the Joker, nothing more to it. Not starting a franchise with an overarching arc or anything.

For the record I know this is about BATMAN and I don't want to bring up the new movies cause they have nothing to do with them. But out of respect of putting the fact that I'm not a ____nite out there cause people love to assume I'll say this one time that prefer Nolan's new movie to any Batman film. However that doesn't mean I don't enjoy and respect Burton's dualogy in the context of their intentions cause they were succesful films in that respect. When people start looking at how it succeeded in being what it was meant to be and not what they wanted it to be maybe they'll start having a clearer perspective. Somehow I doubt it though cause there are a lot of stubborn "fans" out there.

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Old 09-02-2008, 01:52 PM   #485
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

Burton's first Bat-film was an origin story about the Joker, whereas Batman was already established. It almost was a vice versa from other flicks, where we see the hero's origin and the villain is just...there. Batman was creepier in that one as well. He was an urban legend, more like a boogeyman.

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Old 09-02-2008, 02:08 PM   #486
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Burton's first Bat-film was an origin story about the Joker, whereas Batman was already established. It almost was a vice versa from other flicks, where we see the hero's origin and the villain is just...there. Batman was creepier in that one as well. He was an urban legend, more like a boogeyman.
Yeah you're right I should've elaborated and stated "didn't want to make an origin story for Batman". Here is a quote by Hamm regarding the issue

"You totally destroy your credibility if you show the literal process by which Bruce Wayne becomes Batman."

Keep in mind that he finished his script like 6 months before Year One was even published and on comic stands so at the time there was no real Batman comic origin story so that also could've affected his perspective.

So you see the three stories that were vital to the Nolan vision weren't even in existence when the script for that movie was completed. But people choose to ignore things like this for some reason and keep ignorantly comparing as if every Batman movie had the same goal.

zeitgeist

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Old 09-02-2008, 09:19 PM   #487
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Yeah you're right I should've elaborated and stated "didn't want to make an origin story for Batman". Here is a quote by Hamm regarding the issue

"You totally destroy your credibility if you show the literal process by which Bruce Wayne becomes Batman."

Keep in mind that he finished his script like 6 months before Year One was even published and on comic stands so at the time there was no real Batman comic origin story so that also could've affected his perspective.

So you see the three stories that were vital to the Nolan vision weren't even in existence when the script for that movie was completed. But people choose to ignore things like this for some reason and keep ignorantly comparing as if every Batman movie had the same goal.

zeitgeist
What 3 stories where vital to the Nolan vision?

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Old 09-02-2008, 10:06 PM   #488
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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What 3 stories where vital to the Nolan vision?
The ones that the fandom new jacks consider most essential Year One, The Long Halloween and Dark Victory.

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Old 09-02-2008, 10:39 PM   #489
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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"TDK" didn't make me forget "B89."

Comparing one another is absurd.

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Yeah, because comparing two Batman films to eachother is just crazy...


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Old 09-03-2008, 07:08 AM   #490
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Yeah, because comparing two Batman films to eachother is just crazy...
Crazy =/= absurd.

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Old 09-03-2008, 03:10 PM   #491
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Yeah, because comparing two Batman films to eachother is just crazy...

Your 100% RIGHT, it is absurd Mr. Spider!

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Old 07-02-2013, 12:06 AM   #492
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But it's about adventures. It's escapist fiction. I pity the fanboys who don't see the comics as a form of escapism, instead they want to turn these "flamboyant fantasies" (quoting Miller) into something that makes sense by real life logic. That's why the cry about things like One More Day and their precious "continuity". It is to Especially Batman (like Superman) is one of those clear-cut morality books from the second World War.
Wow, get off your high horse. Seriously. I have no respect for people like you. You're one of those elitists who look down upon and make fun of anyone whose idea of what comics should be like doesn't match theirs.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but your opinion isn't indisputable fact. The medium has been changing, evolving and trying different styles and tones through its existence, and none of those styles is more legit than the others just because you say so.

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And build you own opinion, don't re-chew things you've heard like "O'Neill made Batman dark and brooding AGAIN!". He made him "dark" again, but Batman was NEVER brooding. He was the hairy chested love god. And he was quite funny




The BTAS BAtman wasn't brooding either. And this guy was modelled after the 70s/80s.
That page has got to be one of the most cringe-worthy things I've ever seen. I've haven't read any 80s Bat-comics other than Ra's introductory arc and A Death in the Family (both stories were so cringe worthy that they scared me off Batman stories from that decade, especially the brain-damaged part with a French-speaking Ayatollah Khomeini making the Joker the Iranian ambassador to the UN), but if the only way writers from those times could inject humor in the stories was by making Batman act like a manchild like in that pic, then I'm glad that I stopped there.
As for BTAS, I've never seen its Batman act so immaturely. BTAS has its fair share of humor, without having to resort to kind of juvenile humor.

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Old 07-02-2013, 04:45 AM   #493
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Wow, get off your high horse. Seriously. I have no respect for people like you. You're one of those elitists who look down upon and make fun of anyone whose idea of what comics should be like doesn't match theirs.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but your opinion isn't indisputable fact. The medium has been changing, evolving and trying different styles and tones through its existence, and none of those styles is more legit than the others just because you say so.
Actually back in the day I was trolling a lot but of course the essential parts were true.

Quote:
That page has got to be one of the most cringe-worthy things I've ever seen. I've haven't read any 80s Bat-comics other than Ra's introductory arc and A Death in the Family (both stories were so cringe worthy that they scared me off Batman stories from that decade, especially the brain-damaged part with a French-speaking Ayatollah Khomeini making the Joker the Iranian ambassador to the UN), but if the only way writers from those times could inject humor in the stories was by making Batman act like a manchild like in that pic, then I'm glad that I stopped there.
As for BTAS, I've never seen its Batman act so immaturely. BTAS has its fair share of humor, without having to resort to kind of juvenile humor.
Everyone and there mother knows that Death In The Family is a smiling piece of **** (of course you still like the part were Robin is killed) but Jim Starlin wrote some better stories than that. But your problem is that you have no idea about Batman as proven by those comments.

And the only manchild is the modern Batman.

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Old 07-02-2013, 10:51 AM   #494
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

It's not VASTLY overrated. But it's not as great as some fans make it out to be, IMO. I don't like the Prince music, that Joker killed Batman's parents (very contrived connection), the story is a bit bland, some of the key Batman characters like Gordon and Dent are dull and have nothing to do.

I can understand why Burton considers B'89 boring. Batman Returns is much deeper, more interesting, the story is better, and the characters are better written, too.

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Old 07-18-2013, 03:22 PM   #495
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

Actually I love the Prince music haha. Cuz im a fan. And it's funny. But one thing I always say, is how these movies can end up feeling dated once certain songs are thrown in from a musical artist/band of a specific time period.

Prince and that whole 80s synthy pop vibe. It's a huge part of the 80s. It immediately dates the movie if you're watching the movie in the 90s, 2000s or beyond. A lot of superhero movies have this. Batman Forever with the 90s Kiss From A Rose. Man Of Steel is great with that for the most part but even that has a strong scene where Clark is watching the bus and 90s Chris Cornell/Soundgarden is playing. Grunge was a huge part of the 90s, and it was put in there to show that Clark's teenage years were in that decade.

This is why I love TDK trilogy so much in its use of music. There's nothing that takes you out of the movie. No bands.

Batman Returns, if my memory serves me correctly, does a good job with this too.

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Old 07-18-2013, 03:41 PM   #496
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

I still find Batman (1989) to be a very good film. I just wish the Prince songs were never included. They're completely unnecessary and make the film seem dated. I do have a few other problems, but their just minor nitpicks of an otherwise very solid film.

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Old 07-18-2013, 05:28 PM   #497
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I actually don't mind rock songs on comic book movie soundtracks...but I do admit it can date a film, and it's probably better to have them in the end credits if at all. With Prince, though, I thought it actually made sense. I mean, if the Joker was listening to pop music in the '80s, wouldn't you expect him to be in to something twisted like Prince?

Also, BR did have a song by Siouxsie and the Banshees that plays when Bruce and Selina are dancing.

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Old 07-18-2013, 07:37 PM   #498
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

It does feel more dated. I liked and still like Batman Returns more since I originally saw it in the theater.

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Old 07-18-2013, 08:06 PM   #499
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

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Batman Returns, if my memory serves me correctly, does a good job with this too.
There actually is a Siouxsie and the Banshees song in there, but it's done very seamlessly as music during the masquerade ball. Plus, the song is actually pretty decent and incorporates some of Elfman's motifs from the score.

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Old 07-19-2013, 09:57 AM   #500
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Default Re: Am I the only one who feels like B'89 is vastly overrated?

I don't think it's vastly over-rated, but I do think some fans go a little overboard in their near-worship of that film.

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